Thanasis
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Everything posted by Thanasis
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Thank you all. My last finding might explains everything.... I would appreciate if someone can confirm what I read somewhere that "the French supplied the Spanish with their own French made obusiers". http://www.histarmar.com.ar/InfHistorica/ArtilleriadeMarina/8-obuseros.htm
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Many thanks wefalck. The text it's from a translation since from the hardcover appeare that the book was published in London. The rest of your information are much convinient with what I also tent to belive in my research. However, it seems to me rather inaccurate for a Naval officer and in his "Memoir on the use of..." to reffer to his conclutions leaving ambiguities.!? I would be much obliged if you can direct me to a source, for placing big guns on slides. Thank you Thanasis
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Thank you all again. So to get back in the text, this is a part from the "Memoir on the use of shells , hot shot and carcass shells from ship artillery", by Frank Abney Hastings, captain of the Greek steam vessel of war, karteria. London 1828. So, we have an experianced naval officer and also inventer of a 68pdr carronade form for "Karteria", who is exposed (for his knowledge) by publishing his memoir and sets queries.? Why he uses the term "swivel" instead of "pivot".? Why he describes a gun as 48pdr carronade, although there was not such a caliber for carronades at that time.? Wasn't he able to recognise a gun from a carronade.? What should I guess. Thx
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Thank you all for the quick response. You confirmed also my doubts about the 32pdr "carronade" in the photo. The photo is from Osprey Publishing "Napoleonic naval armaments 1792-1815" and there is another photo on page 7, for which I would like to read your coments...How a long barrel gun, can defined as "caronade"? Thank you
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Hello all. I have found a text and and an image on which I would like to have your comments please. The below text says about a 48pdr carronade on a swivel! Is that posible or it means something else? The below photo is described as a 32pdr carronade and is shown on a swivel. How come this gun is defined as "carronade" and could be a 48pdr carronade attached on a same-similar swivel. Many thanks in advance. Thanasis
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Need a seizing tutorial
Thanasis replied to Michael Scarborough's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Hi all. This is "My way of seizing." Thx -
Masking tape lifting
Thanasis replied to Jeff5115's topic in Painting, finishing and weathering products and techniques
All the above that Phil said and just another tip that should also be considered. The storage and the treatment of the tape, every time after the use of it. If you thowing it away (as I used to do), or keep the tape on the bench being hit by other stuf while you are working, the edges of it get curves.Then the dust gets in and you might have weak glued points on the surface of the hull. I use an ordinary masking tape on my models, but to eliminate any misfunction or misstreaement, I create a new strip-edges on an initial strip of it, by using a ruller and a sharp cutter on a plate of glass. Thx -
This is my tip, as an example of what you can do following: "My way of seizing" Thx
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Many thanks Lieste. I much apreciate your info. I checked the pdf file with "Caruana" (Ctrl+F) but it seems I missed it... Thx
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Hi all and Happy New year. Thanks for the file Lieste. Since it's been a previous discussion from which you know I'm interested about 48lib (gun or carronade) could you please give me a source where I can find more about what is written in the pdf file. Professor Robison....“cast over the core”. This meant that hollow shot for the 68-pdr carronade weighed about 48lbs... (Caruana 1997, 168). I couldn't find something about "Caruana" (Captain ?) Many thanks
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@Dave. There'll always be a new-better idea. Thx
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Hi Dave. At first thank you that you 're giving me the chance to point out again, the advantage of my tip of my way of seizing. So to answer to your query my suggestion is go and see how I do my seizings there: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/26297-a-way-of-seizing-my-way/?tab=comments#comment-764615 Then, place and secure your eyelet in its position and follow the stages in my sketch. After cutting the edges of all threads (last stage), you will have a tight rigging line with a decent seizing. I hope you'll be helped. Thx
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48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
I thank you both.! @Lieste. I think your translation for the Ottoman's cannons (36pdr-48pdr) is giving sense to what I wrote in post 34-52, where the gunnery of the Gr ships, was upgrading every after a victorious naval fight and the historical record, that "Terpsichore" was searching for guns in Ottoman frigate wreck in Erresos. She might gained such a gun from there.!? It's also make sense that you would consider of 5x 12pdr guns, and a single 18pdr of 8 or 9ft in the prow but you should know that Greeks, are not always follow the common sense... And the riddle is getting worst ,since this text says for 11 guns while Gr historic texts say for 7 in total (3x12pdr in each side and a 48pdr in the bow). Thank you -
48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Could someone please translate the French text in simple English.... Many thanks
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48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Very enlightening... https://books.google.gr/books/about/A_Treatise_on_Naval_Gunnery.html?id=Ew2VQiCIj1MC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false Thanks -
48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Thank you Waltemar. As I have written (post 47) we decided to built the model of her gun, based on what most people have read or imagine and on the plans that Delacroix posted (post 12) which are given as an example in a text of a historian. We had to follow the paths where, either Tompazis had followed the developments on artillery, or he just had the thought to upgrade his poor gunnery and place a loot on her schooner. It's me, from our search team that I am (still ) following the first path, trying to find whether it might be something else... Thank you -
48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Mates, since the model of schooner "Terpsichore" is going to exhibited in a Anniversary exhibition "Greece 1821-2021" this weekend, here is a photo of her and the famous 48pdr cannon. The model has been built by my friend George Bouzounis whose some models of him you can see in below links. https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/1534-greek-sakoleva/ https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/1538-skaphee-from-symi-island/ https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/1529-rowing-quottrataquot/ Thx
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48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Well, sorry mates but I think I've been misunderstood. In any way I don't relate the 48pdr cannon of "Terpsichore" with the 68pdr carronade of "Karteria". I would be rather foolish... I was just answering the questions that was set at me... Finally, I specify that my query was whether the gun of "Terpsichore" could be something else (Hybrid Paixhans gun?). Thanks to all of you, I have some more option to turn my search. Thank you -
48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
@Bruce. Here is the dimension of those 68 pdr carronades (π=feet). According to Hastings archives, that is kept in English archeological school of Athens, the carronades were constructed in England and were sent in Greece with the ship "Alfred" (Captain Monkman) and they been received in16th of May 1826. It should have been a special order that, was needed to be a special mold... @Waldemar. Yes, factories can be taken over but not from the very first months of the war, starting produce heavy guns.(?) Terpsichore appears to use her 48pdr gun (even uncertain) two months after the beginning of war in May 1821... Going buck to thread... Could please anyone say whether those guns in photos are a 48pdr and a 36pdr guns? Thank you
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48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
@Waldemar. Well as I wrote, "Greece" was under the Ottomans' occupation it would be rather difficult to be set up such factory and especial for heavy cannons. As about the "half kandar gun" I'll make a better search to that direction again. Your info brought in my mind a notice under a history's text, where after the destruction of the Ottoman's flagship in the gulf of Eressos (island of Lesvos) by a fire ship, among the ships which stay back for plundering cannons was also the "Terpsichore". It is written that the flag ship was a 76 cannon's ship but it's not quite clear whether at that time May 1821 (at the begging of the war) "Terpsichore" had that 48pdr gun. In a history text I found that the range was long and it couldn't reach the flag ship while in another one that, the flag ship was so strong that the big gun of her, was ineffective...!? @bruse d. I place the complete drawing bellow. It's hand drawn by Hasting as it was his idea based on Paixhans system while he was preparing the armament of "Karteria". As you can see and if my eyes don't misleads me there is the word "carronade" while I can't read the rest of the text... Thank you
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48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
I don't insist in something more modern than a 48pdr trajectory gun of that time. I must admit that one member of our search team, has the strong belief that must be a Russian Unicorn. In many arguments we had, I point out that we have found nothing to relate the owner-captain of the ship (Tompazis) to Russians and there was no any Russian officer around his environment but instead there were a few French and English military officers, who were following the developments in Europe. In addition both Tomas Gordon (Scottish Colonel) and Frank Abney Hastings (British naval officer, crew on "Terpsichore" and later commander of "Karteria") philhellenes, in their memoirs, are referring to that gun as 48pdr carronade without pointing the nationality. I think both they should have been able to recognize a Russian gun or they should ask and write about it. In general we have spent much time of our search for the gun of 'Terpsichore". We don't know whether the gun was set on her before the start of war or after, to determine whether was a buy or a later prize. We don't know whether the two philhellenes referring for the same initial gun, or on something that had been set later. There are so many options and uncertainty that we can only make guesses and someone (like me) based on the character of the captain. Thank you -
48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Well I'm not an naval artillery expert and whatever knowledge I've gain, is whatever I've read from different sources for that time, trying to determine the type of gun that might was set on schooner "Terpsichore". In fact I joined a research team of modelers who 2,5 years before had the idea to built a model of her. At this time the model is already finished by a fellow modeler, with a version of the big gun in prow, such as it won't contrast with what many people have read or imagine. Trying to find as much from the truth, we continue the search until the model be exposed and in case that some new emerged, then a new model of the gun will be built and set on the ship model. As about the photos of those supposedly long carronades of "Karteria", the history says that her armament was 4 68pdr guns and 4 68pdr carronades. I have no opinion, thinking that whoever published this photos, have made his homework...!? Thank you -
48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
@Waldemar. This (large-heavy Venetian gun) was also for me the first thought but it doesn't match with the research and innovative mind of the ship owner-captain. Except only if we assumed that he placed such a gun in his ship's bow, just to terrify the enemy. This was my second though, since I haven’t found any glorious achievement by this gun... @Mr Doxford. I want to believe that the painting of "Terpsichore" shows the exact real ship. Although at least one element of the rigging of the ship on his painting, was not used to be on Gr schooners, I guess should be accepted as an adopted by the owner innovation . I'm talking for the crossed yard above the deck in the fore mast. @Delacroix. Thank you-your info is much appreciated. I can't fight the fact, that the French navy never owned 48pdr carronades. What I'm saying is that the Paixhans in the above text, might call his 48pdr straight trajectory gun as carronade. We might think that carronades are the short shape of a cannon but it might not be such. See the below photos which shows a remnant of a 68pdr carronade with Paixhans system, which recently found in the wreck of "KARTERIA". Thank you
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48pdr cannon
Thanasis replied to Thanasis's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
@ Delacroix. Still I don't get it. Paixnans wrote his ""Nouvelle force Maritime" in 1822. So when he proposes the 48pdr carronade as part of a ship's gunnery, he has already worked on his new 48pdr straight trajectory's gun since 1810. So to my point of view, I think he just clarifies this new gun by calling it "48pdr carronade". Having already the 48pdr curved trajectory's gun and his new 48pdr straight trajectory's gun, I can't see what new fabrication is proposed. @Waldemar. Under the Ottomans, the ships of Gr fleet were trade ones which turned to war ships and so they were armed only with small caliber guns 12-24 pdrs, just for piracy protection. They were upgrading every after a victorious naval fight or the siege of a fort. Ottomans had 48pdr cannons in their fortification all over, as remnants of the Venetians 150 years before. That, it could be a first potential source for 48pdrs even it could be problematic the issue of ammunition. And yes, after the start of war every cannon market was open. Thank you
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