Charter33

A quick up-date........
 
After a bit or re-organisation the workshop now has an area dedicated to the Triton build.
 

 
The first frame has now been completed. I'm thinking about adding some pegs (tree nails?) Assuming that these would have been about an inch in diameter on the original my calculations come out at a gnats whisker over 0.5 mm diameter. I'll try and source some brass wire and see how it goes.
 

 

 
I played safe and worked on a frame from the centre of the hull (0). It currently has excess material at the top which will be trimmed later, but in the meantime this provides support for the acrylic brace that I hope will prevent any movement in the wood.
 
I've also had a go at making a height gauge for transferring vertical measurements from the plan to the model.
 

 

 
 
Cheers for now,
 
Graham.

A quick up-date........
 
After a bit or re-organisation the workshop now has an area dedicated to the Triton build.
 

 
The first frame has now been completed. I'm thinking about adding some pegs (tree nails?) Assuming that these would have been about an inch in diameter on the original my calculations come out at a gnats whisker over 0.5 mm diameter. I'll try and source some brass wire and see how it goes.
 

 

 
I played safe and worked on a frame from the centre of the hull (0). It currently has excess material at the top which will be trimmed later, but in the meantime this provides support for the acrylic brace that I hope will prevent any movement in the wood.
 
I've also had a go at making a height gauge for transferring vertical measurements from the plan to the model.
 

 

 
 
Cheers for now,
 
Graham.

A quick up-date........
 
After a bit or re-organisation the workshop now has an area dedicated to the Triton build.
 

 
The first frame has now been completed. I'm thinking about adding some pegs (tree nails?) Assuming that these would have been about an inch in diameter on the original my calculations come out at a gnats whisker over 0.5 mm diameter. I'll try and source some brass wire and see how it goes.
 

 

 
I played safe and worked on a frame from the centre of the hull (0). It currently has excess material at the top which will be trimmed later, but in the meantime this provides support for the acrylic brace that I hope will prevent any movement in the wood.
 
I've also had a go at making a height gauge for transferring vertical measurements from the plan to the model.
 

 

 
 
Cheers for now,
 
Graham.

All,
 
Here is the completed build, sans diorama for now. I'm now in the middle of cleaning out the workspace, ordering new drill bits (and other tools) and getting ready to sink my teeth into building the Syren. I think I am ready for a ship, haven gotten the plane out of my system.  
 
~john

Hi,
 
The first step is often the hardest ….
 
I hope to undertake this challenge of building my first POF ship in order to develop my practical skills and learn new techniques - as well as ending up with a (hopefully) impressive final model.  I’ve been preparing for a month or so – downloading the plans for the keel, getting them printed and sourcing the wood.
My choice of timber is cherry for the keel and frames, maple for the false keel and other components further down the line and I also have some black walnut in store.
The timber as purchased:
 

 
A strip of each cut off, split and planed down to 8 mm.
 

 
Ready to start ….
 

 
The first component I decided to make was the aft deadwood.
Patterns cut out and glued onto the cherry with ‘Spray Mount’. I’ve found that this holds the paper in place well enough without leaving any residue on the surface once removed. A couple of times the paper lifted while a piece was being worked but this was spotted and dealt with before errors occurred.
 

 
After initial cutting out with a band saw edges were refined with a combination of a band facer and drum sander.
 


 
I have read about, and liked, the technique of enhancing wood joints with permanent marker pens and decided to experiment with black and brown pens on some off-cuts. To say the difference is subtle would be a wild exaggeration!  Blowed if I could tell the difference….
 

 
The pieces were glued together, cleaned up and the ‘steps’ marked prior to the waste wood being removed with chisels.
 


 
My first attempt. I’m leaving the final shaping to the sides until much more of the keel has been completed in order to try and get my head around how much wood needs to be removed.
 


 
I have also been working on making a building board.
 


Before I work on progressing further could someone confirm whether or not this project has been opened to new members again, please? I’m a bit confused by the message saying that it is on the ‘Forum’ front page and the one at the top of the ‘Cross section’ thread saying it’s temporarily closed.
 
In no way is the fact that this project has no big glossy box to smuggle through the back door while the Admiral isn’t looking, thus avoiding the inevitable questions of ‘how much?’ or ‘and where is it going to go when it’s finished’ has absolutely no bearing on my decision to get actively involved ….. honest…
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Pleased to have been of some help. I'll be heading over there myself sometime in the near future...... but be warned - so much beautiful timber, so much temptation ....... enjoy!

Okay, one last post about the Dobune. I found a few photos of a half-scale replica being built. The photos were on a Facebook page for boatbuilder Nasu-san. I don't recall his first name. He instructed Douglas Brooks on the building of a Ukai-bune, or cormorant fishing boat, earlier this year. Some of you who attended Douglas' talk in Mystic a couple years ago may also recall seeing a short video of Nasu-san pounding nails with a lively rhythm. 
 
I don't believe Nasu-san is building this replica, the photos were just on his page. There are more photos on Nasu Boatbuilding's Facebook page, if you're interested. It's in Japanese, though, but you'll find them in the Photos section: 那須造船
 
 

 

 

 

 
Note how the thick lower hull plank is actually more of a carved log. This type of construction seems pretty rare, and I believe it's considered a transition between the semi-structure hull type, as shown in my umibune model, and a structured, or fully planked hull. 
 
 

Hi Dan,
 
Good question. On one boat in particular, I have had that same question. But, on these boats, I'm sure the planking is too thick to run the fasteners all the way through.
 
I believe they're about as deep as that large fastener sitting on top of the wood in that last posted photo. So, the fasteners would have to be added to both faces of the planking. I don't know if they are done inline or staggered or if they even worried about it. I'll ask Douglas about it. Been meaning to do that because of the Aganogawa-bune, or Agano river boat, which is a beautiful, slender boat that his students at Middlebury College built a replica of.
 

 
Here's a photo from his blog, where he basically answers this question. A mortise is cut for the fastener, in this case, to the thickness of this fastener.
 
Douglas Brooks has a great blog site, which I think people here would really enjoy. Here's the entry for the fastener, which he refers to by the name used by his teacher in Okinawa, a huundu: http://blog.douglasbrooksboatbuilding.com/2009/12/huun-du.html
 
Oh, I just read in the blog that his teacher in Okinawa like to lay these out with an even stagger between the inside and outside. A very useful blog!
 
 

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Thanks for sorting this out for me Dan. I've been a regular viewer of your IJN Amatsukaze build - incredible! I never realized that card models of this sophistication even existed...
 
I've managed to make a little more progress with the Triton build in between the demands of a couple of other projects.
 
The scratch stock did the job and both the keel and false keel have now also have had their ends tapered.
I turned three brass screws to hold the keel in place on the building board (and later onto a display base although that's many years away!). Brass bushes where also turned and pressed home into the keel.


 
Keel and false keel are now joined .....

 
....and the building board, now complete with a print of the jig plan, has been drilled in readiness for the keel once it has been completed.

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Bill – thanks for dropping in.  I’m building to a scale of 1:48 as per the plans. I forgot to put this in the original thread title and was unable to find a way to edit it. I’ve now resorted to adding it as a tag label.
 
A quick up-date:-
The great news of the re-opening of the Triton build topic and the changes in how to now access the plans arrived while I was way on a family holiday. Dealing with this was the first job I did upon my return!
The plans are superb – some sheets are genuine works of art. Thank you if you were involved in their production. So much time, care and effort has clearly gone into them. Very much appreciated. Today I invested in having all the AO and A1 sheets printed as I cannot do this for myself unlike the A4 sheets. I have found much information to assist with the task of shaping deadwoods, stern and inner posts etc. Looking at the grooving in the keel sides I decided to spend a bit of preparation time making a basic scratch stock to add this detail.


 
The stock is beech and the blade was fashioned from a heavy duty craft knife blade. Three different ‘spurs’, to deal with the variations in angles shown on the plan, were initially ground to shape with a Dremel and then honed on a water-cooled grindstone. A quick trial on an offcut of cherry proved successful.
 
I’ve been checking the list of plan files in the ‘Complete Model’ download section against the list provided further up in the download area and have found a bit of discrepancy. On the plus side there are many additional files covering areas such as Great Cabin sash lights, Hawse, Hawse and Bollard timbers. Although most of the files I initially thought were missing were actually available by looking in the 'Cross-section' build version download area, I have not yet been able to locate the following:
Belfry layout
Binnacle
Capstan details
Capstan Layout
Triton stove
Wheel
Stem
Tapered keel
Starboard Stern Timbers (1-3)
Tafferel Rev 1 (????)
Rudder
Rudder iron work
 
Are they ‘hiding’ on other sheets perhaps? My inexperience could well have led to me overlooking them of course. Is there any way to obtain them? Any advice gratefully received.
 
Cheers for now.
 
Graham.

Hi,
The Furniture scratch repair pens arrived .... three different browns euphemistically labeled mahogany, oak and cherry.

The first was as dark as the marker pen I used previously on the aft deadwood, the other two, shown above, were very similar to each other but do not match the woods they are named after, to be honest. The cherry, on the left, was the best of the bunch and it was this that I used on the second attempt at the deadwood and various scarf joints.

It would be wrong of me to criticize these pens without actually trying them for their advertised purpose, but with a working knowledge of furniture restoration and various finishing technique including French polishing there are other processes I'd use to repair scratches first.  The effect of this pen was generally okay although it does have a tendency to bleed,  especially on end grain.
 
Then I came across Dan Vad's advice to Jeff (Zarcon) on his HMS Victory build log about using Pigma Brush pens and archival ink.  More than twice the price of the set of three, but so much better - and worth every penny! I'll be using this for the rest of the build.

I have now completed cutting out all the components for the keel etc.







My next task is to add the rebates and additional tapering to the fore and aft deadwoods, referring to the first plan sheet and the other build logs in this forum - I love a challenge!  Once this has been done, and the parts have been assembled, I hope to be in a position to access the full set of sheets.
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Thanks for the ‘likes’, comments and input.  Always welcome and appreciated.
 
Michael (MEDDO) – the equipment is not exactly mine,  but having access to it is the next best thing. The planner / thicknesser and I go back 40 years – and I believe it was almost 20 years old when I first used it!  I must have fed the equivalent of a small forest through it over that time …..
Christian – I agree that the black and the brown pens that I used on the aft deadwood are too dark.  I have found a set of ‘Furniture Touch up scratch repair’ marker pens that contain lighter browns and plan to experiment with these when they arrive next week.
 
In the mean-time the components for the bow structure are ready to be cut out.

I’ve been working on the false keel and keel parts this week.  All the scarf joints have been marked out and cut.


 
I have also made a temporary filler piece for the space between the fore and aft deadwoods, where the frames will go later,  to help with shaping the bottom edges of the keelson components and to aid with the alinement  of the various sub-assemblies when they are glued together.


I’ll be adding the tapers to the ends later.  They are ready for gluing now and once dry I plan to add the treenails to the joints.  Showing my inexperience here,  but should these be wooden pegs or copper wire? – I’ve seen both methods used …..
 
Cheers for now,
 
Graham.

Hi,
 
The first step is often the hardest ….
 
I hope to undertake this challenge of building my first POF ship in order to develop my practical skills and learn new techniques - as well as ending up with a (hopefully) impressive final model.  I’ve been preparing for a month or so – downloading the plans for the keel, getting them printed and sourcing the wood.
My choice of timber is cherry for the keel and frames, maple for the false keel and other components further down the line and I also have some black walnut in store.
The timber as purchased:
 

 
A strip of each cut off, split and planed down to 8 mm.
 

 
Ready to start ….
 

 
The first component I decided to make was the aft deadwood.
Patterns cut out and glued onto the cherry with ‘Spray Mount’. I’ve found that this holds the paper in place well enough without leaving any residue on the surface once removed. A couple of times the paper lifted while a piece was being worked but this was spotted and dealt with before errors occurred.
 

 
After initial cutting out with a band saw edges were refined with a combination of a band facer and drum sander.
 


 
I have read about, and liked, the technique of enhancing wood joints with permanent marker pens and decided to experiment with black and brown pens on some off-cuts. To say the difference is subtle would be a wild exaggeration!  Blowed if I could tell the difference….
 

 
The pieces were glued together, cleaned up and the ‘steps’ marked prior to the waste wood being removed with chisels.
 


 
My first attempt. I’m leaving the final shaping to the sides until much more of the keel has been completed in order to try and get my head around how much wood needs to be removed.
 


 
I have also been working on making a building board.
 


Before I work on progressing further could someone confirm whether or not this project has been opened to new members again, please? I’m a bit confused by the message saying that it is on the ‘Forum’ front page and the one at the top of the ‘Cross section’ thread saying it’s temporarily closed.
 
In no way is the fact that this project has no big glossy box to smuggle through the back door while the Admiral isn’t looking, thus avoiding the inevitable questions of ‘how much?’ or ‘and where is it going to go when it’s finished’ has absolutely no bearing on my decision to get actively involved ….. honest…
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Led Lights arrived today, intentions are to use these where possible to simulate internal lighting only, like the hanger, Bridge, and passage ways I need to think ahead as to how they are going to fit, but they can be cut down to lengths of 3 leds, 

the last phot was just to see what they will look like, and how easy it will be to hide any wiring, I have a remote control for them on its way, so lol i hope they do the job

Hi,
The Furniture scratch repair pens arrived .... three different browns euphemistically labeled mahogany, oak and cherry.

The first was as dark as the marker pen I used previously on the aft deadwood, the other two, shown above, were very similar to each other but do not match the woods they are named after, to be honest. The cherry, on the left, was the best of the bunch and it was this that I used on the second attempt at the deadwood and various scarf joints.

It would be wrong of me to criticize these pens without actually trying them for their advertised purpose, but with a working knowledge of furniture restoration and various finishing technique including French polishing there are other processes I'd use to repair scratches first.  The effect of this pen was generally okay although it does have a tendency to bleed,  especially on end grain.
 
Then I came across Dan Vad's advice to Jeff (Zarcon) on his HMS Victory build log about using Pigma Brush pens and archival ink.  More than twice the price of the set of three, but so much better - and worth every penny! I'll be using this for the rest of the build.

I have now completed cutting out all the components for the keel etc.







My next task is to add the rebates and additional tapering to the fore and aft deadwoods, referring to the first plan sheet and the other build logs in this forum - I love a challenge!  Once this has been done, and the parts have been assembled, I hope to be in a position to access the full set of sheets.
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

I have made some progress, though slowly: classes have started up again, and I am back into the full swing of teaching for the fall term. That said, the top wing is in place as are the inter-wing struts and some of the cabling. It's tedious, slow and very rewarding. I also have the pitot tube installed as well as the air pump for the gas tank (odd flying machine!).  I am also in the middle of my biennial flight review (FAA requirement) as a pilot, and have been blocked from flying due to the remnants of storm Jose. Phew! Lots going on!  Some pics:
 
~john
 
 

The only reason for a fighter to exist is to shoot down enemy aircraft. So now finally it is a fighter! To quote the man himself: "Find the enemy and shoot him down, anything else is nonsense".
 
So the MG:s are installed. The fit was ok but they do not line up perfectly with either the ammo chutes or the spent cartridge collectors. I will either have to bend these parts a bit or add some small parts in-between the chutes and MG:s.
 
In this picture the engine cowling is installed but I just jury fit it. I have not decided if I should have on, in which case it will cover most of the engine or leave it off so to show off the work on the engine. Also I don´t know if I should paint it red. I like the look of the aluminum and it might be a bit difficult to get it covered with a nice even coat of red but red would certainly also look very very nice... Tough choices

Thank you Graham.
 
Another update, moving slowly.
 
Wales all finished and gunport linings for the upper gun deck finished as well.  Next step is the gunport linings for for the lower and middle gun decks. I have a feeling it is not going to be easy at all. When I finish the linings I will fill the space between the planks in the lower part of the hull and finish.
 
For the upper gun deck linings, the walnut strips (1mm x 16mm) supplied with the kit was impossible to use.  The thickness which was supposed to be 1mm was under 0.8mm and apart from that it was very brittle.  More often than not, it kept splitting in two while trying to trim to size.  Had to order some new ones with the right thickness.  Worked out fine.  
 
 

 
 
 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 



 
 
 
Regrads
Robert