Elia

What do you think, my friends: In the same time on tv are : Avatar (I watched it 3 times) and Ice Age IV ( Admiral watched 15 times). What we will watching?

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 24 – Forward Cant Frames
 
 
American Clipper Note: American Clippers not only sailed fast, they were built fast.  Impatient customers demanded it.  A yard would normally launch two from the same slip in a year.  Many were built in close to three months time and one 200-footer, John Bertram, in 61 days.  There were a number of reasons for this productivity.  First there was increased division of labor and the creation of trades.  Gone was the all-around shipwright in favor of gangs for specific tasks.  Steam driven machinery was widely deployed.  McKay, and perhaps other large yards, used steam driven bevel-saws that could be adjusted to the angle of the frame bevel while running.  This alone cut frame fabrication time by a factor of six, using but three men.  Steam derricks were used to raise frames and other heavy timbers, vs. a common practice of everyone dropping what they were doing to lend a hand.  Making treenails was no longer a rainy day make-work job done manually with axes and spoke shaves.  Instead treenails were rapidly turned out in by steam driven lathes.
 
 Back in the model shop, the all-around shipwright plods along.
 
The first picture shows the most forward cant frames being assembled.  Exactly the same pin-indexed alignment method is being used.
 

 
After assembling these roughed out pieces, the frames are beveled and the patterns removed.  The sidings of the upper futtocks are then reduced and the bolts installed.
 
In the next picture this has been done and the starboard frame is being fitted up into the mortise cut for it earlier.
 

 
Some paring of the mortise sides and bottom was done to neatly fit the frame.  In the next picture, the clamping has been set up in preparation for gluing the frame in.
 

 
The clamps were then removed, glue was applied and the clamps replaced.  After drying, the clamps were removed, the frames faired and the six iron bolts into the deadwood installed, as shown in the next picture.
 

 
Stem supports had to be removed for much of this work – usually one side at a time.  In the next picture the port frame has been installed and is being faired with a flat riffler, followed by sanding.
 

 
No project is without rework.  I have normally been making toptimbers from smaller 9-inch stock so these very visible members will be consistently sized - unlike lower timber sidings that have been filed or machined back after pattern removal.  In the case of these first cant frames, this reduced siding at the top left a small gap at the adjoining hawse timbers that can be seen in the last two pictures.  This was an oversight when I lofted the frames.  Rather than delay the erection, I decided to install the frames, then replace the toptimbers - before the glue had set overnight.  The next picture shows the starboard toptimber being removed with the aid of a razor blade in the glue joint.
 

 
No glue was applied on the forward side of this piece, so it was easy to separate with light taps along the joint.  The next picture shows the piece being removed, essentially intact.
 

 
In this picture the port side toptimber has been removed and not yet replaced. 
In the last picture the new larger top timbers have been installed and the joints with the hawse timbers closed up. 
 

 
Installation of the forward half frames has been suspended until all of the cants are in place – to leave room for that work.
 
 
Ed

And a closeup of the patched old weathered sail.

A bit more work done on the Mizzen.

More work

Finished up the formast and wooden ratlines.  Ferreira had wood step ratlines.

Finished (somewhat) Bluenose in Case
 

 

 

 

Added more of the running and standing rigging. The standing rigging really gives it that final look. Getting close...
 
One of the lines, called the "flying" backstay, I was a little unsure of because I couldn't find many pics of it. It's a backstay but connected through rigging blocks, and had a hook. I think they would only use it in certain times (racing maybe). But, I have the line as black, up to the blocks, then the running part tan. Not quite sure if that looks right or not. I can easily change the long run to tan.
 

 

I am getting close to finishing the initial fabrication of the frames. In the next couple of pictures you can see all the frames across the keelson finished and then the futtocks added to the rearmost crutches.
 
 
 
Unfortunately I noticed that the keelson had acquired a pronounced downward curve (upward in the photos since the mould is inverted).
 
  
 
I wasn't happy to leave it like it was, so I stripped off all the frames - they were only pinned in place - and then planed off the first MDF layer from the mould down to the veneer leaf.
 

 
At this point it became clear that the whole mould was slightly curved, probably because I didn't clamp it to a flat surface when it was drying. Nothing serious, just slightly annoying! I was able to sand the veneer slightly more in the middle until the top surface was flat. Then I added a strip of cherry the same plan profile as the keelson, as thick as the distance between the top of the keelson and the lowest waterline and with a curve at the stern end. Once this was glued down I fixed 4 mm deep strips of veneer each side to set clean lines for the bottom of the mould (the MDF tends to flake off). Now I have a straight base for the keelson.
 
    
 
Next I cut a new layer of MDF in two pieces to fit around the keelson trough and, once the glue was dry, planed and sanded it to shape. Another couple of coats of varnish to stop the frame glue sticking and job done! A nice straight keelson ready for the frames to be re-fitted.
 
     
 
Rob

Continuing with the capstan-
 
As I looked again at various capstans to glean some details I was still fuzzy on, there seemed to be more space between the whelps than I was coming up with, and it dawned on me that what I wanted to make had only six whelps instead of eight.   The eight capstan bars that I saw on models, I mistakenly took to correspond to eight whelps as well.   Not so in this case.
 
Upon learning this, my octagonal post was not going to do me any good and I sanded it round.  I glued two opposing whelps to it, and test fit this on the deck--
 

 
 
The height seemed about right, and I glued the remaining whelps on by eye, trying to make sure they were perpendicular to the shaft, equally spaced, and all at the same height--
 

 

 
 
Next I made the chocks.  Two sets would be needed, and I used the same technique as for the whelps: cut out blanks, glue them into a block, and sand them to the desired shape--
 

 
 
Here I have sanded one chock block and am test fitting it--
 

 
 
Here are my two chock blocks--
 

 
 
These were separated in hot water, and glued into place--
 

 
 
They need to be filed down to the same profile as the whelps--
 

 

 
 
I then tried this out on the deck again, and pondered exactly how to make the capstan head--
 

 
 
Incidentally, you see the mast I had made, on the deck.  It will be a do-over.   I found some better information on mast tapering (from my old friend Charles G. Davis, no surprise), learned I had made a mistake ( a couple, actually).    Oh, well.  This one will do fine for helping me make the mast partners and locate the right chain plate angles.
 
 
I started the capstan head by drawing the location of the eight capstan bars on a piece of paper--
 

 
 
Then I did some measuring, marking and sketched out the shape of a "capstan bar chock" that would be sandwiched between two discs, and create the square capstan bar hole--
 

 
 
Once again, the chock block technique was employed to create eight uniform chocks--
 

 
 
These were separated and tested out on the drawing--
 

 
 
I cut some "stand in" capstan bars out of stock exactly the same thickness as the chocks, so I would end up with square holes.  These were glued onto the paper, centered on the lines I had drawn--
 

 
 
Then I glued the spacer chocks onto the paper, between the stand-in capstan bars--
 

 
 
It didn't matter that the spacer chocks extended unevenly beyond the outline of the capstan head, the excess would be sanded away.  The bars were removed--
 

 
 
Then the top disc of the head was glued to the spacers--
 
 
 
 
When the glue set, the assembly was removed from the paper--
 
 

 
 
The bottom disc was glued on, and extending bits of chock were sanded away--
 

 
 
Here it is partway through the sanding--
 

 
 
When it was smooth and as round as I could make it (it rolled across the table pretty well), I glued it to the whelp assembly--
 

 
 
And tried it out on the deck--
 

 

 
 
I will make the pawl mechanism and attach that to the deck, then it's done.
 
 
Ron

I've worked on the mast and the capstan.
 
 
First the mast--
 

 
On the left is a piece of maple that I started to round, got about 3/4 of the way there, and decided I didn't like the maple.
 
Next to that is a piece of Swiss Pear that I cut with a jewelers saw, horrendously.   I wavered far off my cut line, and this piece is too narrow in the middle to make the fore or main mast.  I think I can use it for the bowsprit.
 
Next to the right is another try at cutting a straight(er) piece of wood.  This one will work.  Farthest on the right is the billet of wood I am cutting these from.   I know this is insane, and I should just order squared wood that is close to the size I need.  I didn't want to wait, (or spend more money) but after doing this once, I will order some square wood for the rest of the masts and spars!
 
Here is the sanding down of the piece, underway-
 

 
 
Underhill says to taper the square to the right widths, before chamfering and making the mast round, so that's what I did.
 
 
Here's the mast mostly tapered square.   There's still some fat at the middle section.  There are some measuring points marked.   As I sanded a side, these would get erased, and I'd redraw them before moving on to another side--
 

 
 
The illustrations and directions I have seen for mast making are for larger, "made" masts with the cheeks, front fish and iron  (or rope) bands.  This will be a simple, single piece, and I'm not sure how to work the bibs into the mast and taper.  This may be a throwaway trial run if it's not satisfactory.   But at least I will be able to use it to set the chainplate angles when I get to those. 
 
Here's the mast mostly tapered and shaped--
 

 
 
Next was making the bibs.  I glued two pieces together, made a rough cut with the jewelers saw, and then further shaped them with files while they were glued together--
 

 
 
Here they are separated--
 

 
 
I glued them to the mast, and filed and sanded them some more-- 
 

 
 
You can also see some work on the capstan pieces in that picture, but I better back up just a little.
 
As with the bibs, I cut blanks for the capstan whelps--
 

 
 
And glued them into a block--
 

 
 
The block was sawed, filed and sanded to get the right profile.  I also made an octagonal center post.  This will extend down to the lower deck--
 

 
 
I glued a brass pivot point into the bottom of the post, and separated the whelp pieces.  The piece with the hole will sit on the upper deck with the capstan--
 

 
 
My capstan is supposed to be similar to the one on the Institute of Nautical Archeology (INA) model of the US Brig Jefferson.  That capstan has a different profile to the whelps than I usually see, and seems a little narrower overall, also.   I don't know if mine is going to end up as nice as that one!
 
 
Ron

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 23 – Forward Half Frames
 
 
American Clipper Note: In the last part, the three types of frames were discussed.  To shed some further light on that subject, before moving to the half frame work, I have included some images pf patterns that illustrate the types and also the way the shape of Young America’s hull changed from midship to the bow.
 
The first image shows one of the midship patterns.
 

 
Young America had relatively flat floors for an extreme clipper compared to the early versions like Griffith’s Sea Witch, McKay’s Staghound or Webb’s own design for Challenge.  In all these ships the angle of the lower timbers to the turn of the bilge was much greater giving the midship a pronounced V shape.  By 1853, designers were learning that extreme deadrise did not contribute to speed to the degree previously thought.  Later extreme clippers had fuller bodies, like the one shown above.
 
Moving forward the next image shows frame a, the most forward of the half frames and the last one going forward to be set at right angles to the keel.
 
 
 
The most striking feature of this pattern is the extremely sharp v-shape of the hull at this point – a defining characteristic of all the extreme clippers. Notice that the frame is in two pieces separated by the keelson in the center.  These will be bolted to the sides of the keelson.   Also note that the bolt holes are becoming perilously close to the forward (green) outer profile at the top.  This is necessary on this highly beveled frame pair so the bolts can be driven through this forward frame of the pair and not break through the inside profile on the aft frame.  Some are actually over the line, but remember that the sidings on the upper segments are reduced so the bolt holes will actually be inside of the profile when the sidings are reduced.  The pattern is at the forward face of the wider floors.
 
Finally, the most forward cant frame, f, is shown below.
 

 
This pattern shows the extremely narrow section just aft of the hawse timbers.  This frame, when assembled with is aft partner, will fit into the forward score of the five cut out in the last part.
 
So, with that background the installation of the forward frames may be less confusing.
 
The first picture shows assembly of the two sides of the first half frame pair.
 

 
The vertical strip between the frames was used to size the separation at the keelson for an easy fit.  Next is a picture of a later frame with two horizontal temporary cross-spales to allow the frame to be installed like a full frame.  This is much easier than dealing with two separated frames.
 

 
Unfortunately the first frame was a bit loose on the keelson, so the bottom cross-spale was removed and replaced with two pieces, each glued only on one opposite side.  This allowed the joint at the bottom to be closed up with a clamp as shown below.
 

 
The next [picture shows a close up of the other side during assembly.
 

 
Note that the bottom of the frame is aligned with the top of the keel rabbet.  The lower cross-spale resting on the keelson was installed to set this height.  When the glue had set at the keelson, the usual spacers were installed above to maintain spacing and adjust the centering – as shown in the last picture.
 

 
In the next part, the most forward cant frames will be set.
 
 
Ed

I would like to thank everyone for the kind words and well wishes for my brother. My heart is saddened, beyond words, to report that he passed away this afternoon.
 
I know this is a build log for my ship, but I would like to post one photo as a mini tribute to him - my favourite photo of him:
 

My "big" brother Brian
 

Dear Sherry,
 
Sjors and I are very saddened to hear of your brothers loss.
Our sincere condolences to you and your family.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you in this difficult time.
 
May the happy memories of Brian fill your heart.
 
Anja& Sjors

Not sure if this would be classed as cheating or resourcefulness, but when I saw these toothpicks a little light bulb turned on in my head!  
I needed to make some columns/pillars for the bow and these seemed to "fit the bill". Just had to cut the preformed tops off and sand them a bit and "voila" instant columns!
 

 
Here you can see the end result with the doors, moulding and columns.
 

 
I'm now working on the railings and have a couple of them installed:
 

 
 

Thanks, Druxey.
 
I would have definately prefered to do this at the bench, but the order of construction got in the way. On these ships the keelson ran straight to the stem with the deadwood built on top. So the deadwood had to wait for the keelson and the keelson for the forward square frames. The assembly at this stage is pretty awkward on the loose. I considered dispensing with the scores, but I keep saying this is a structural model, so....

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 22 – Cant Frame Scores
 
 
American Clipper Note:  In a departure from the historical notes on the stirring adventures of these ships in service, I thought it would be a good idea to comment on some construction aspects as well.  Since the forward framing is set to begin on the model, some description of that might be appropriate. 
 
The bulk of the transverse hull framing on these ships – and most ships – consisted of full breadth “square frames” whose lower timbers rested on and were bolted through the keel.  As the forward (or aft) end of the ship was approached and the v-shape of the floor timbers that crossed the keel became more acute, a point would be reached where naturally grown “compass timber” could not be found to make these pieces.  At that point – on these ships – “half frames” were installed.  These were still square to the keel, but were made in separate assemblies for each side of the ship and were bolted horizontally through each other and the vertical deadwood/keelson structure – the backbone of the hull.  Further forward, as the bevels on these frames became more pronounced, it would no longer be possible to bolt the sections of each half frame pair together with bolts “normal” or at a right angle to the face of the frame, without the bolt being exposed through the beveled side.  At this point “cant frames” were used to complete the bow (or stern) framing.  These were also bolted to the deadwood but were angled – canted – forward to reduce their bevel and allow the pairs to be bolted together securely.  Since every ship had a different shape and since timber availability varied, it seems likely that these break points were set for each ship in the mold loft as the frame patterns were drawn out and timber supplies known. 
 
I applied this assumption in lofting the frames for the Young America model.
 
Before starting work on the next frames to be installed – the forward half-frames – the “scores” for the cant frames needed to be cut while there was still enough room to do this.  These scores provided important support to the angled cant frames by allowing them to be inset into the keelson/deadwood – rather than depending on bolts alone.
 
The vertical joint faces of each half-frame and the cant frame extend up from the bearding line to the cutting down line.  The bearding line defines the point at each frame where the frame profile narrows down to the face of the 16” wide  keelson/deadwood.  The cutting down line defines the upper edge of the inboard faces of the frames at the keelson/deadwood.
 
The first picture shows a template - made from the drawing - being used to trace the bearding line on the model.
 

 
A similar template was used to trace the cutting down line above this.  The next picture shows the vertical lines of the scores being marked using a Plexiglas square made to slide clear of the keel retaining strips on the base board.
 

 
These lines define the extent of each of the five cant frame joint faces – the area to be inset.  The next picture shows the first score on the starboard side cut out.
 

 
Since I plan to plank the starboard side of the model, I started this risky chiseling process on that side for practice.  Planking is a great way to hide framing mistakes.
 
I will not describe the full process here, but the next few pictures show it generally.  In the first picture the vertical lines are being scored with a knife using very light cuts.
 

 
In the next picture, a chisel is being used to cut into the deadwood at the bottom – just above the bearding line.  The line just above the chisel is the joint line between the apron and the deadwood.
 

 
The score itself was then pared out with various small chisels.  The next picture shows some of that work in progress. 
 

 
The last picture shows three of the five cant frame scores essentially finished.  Two more to go – on this side.
 

 
Although it was more difficult to manage this work in place, I did it this way because the overall hull assembly is still quite weak and I did not want to risk setting it up on the workbench for that reason.
 
Next: on to the half frames.
 
 
Ed

How do you get to Carnegie Hall?  Practice, man, practice!
 
How do you make ship model sails?  Practice, swear, remake, practice, swear, etc!
 
I’m relieved that I didn’t attempt the Bluenose sails first.  My practice sail construction is to replace the original sails on a toy boat we purchased in Dunoon, Scotland, in 1981.  Time and water have damaged the sails and it makes an excellent subject for simple sails.
 
I hand washed the sail cloth, dried, and ironed it.  Traced the pattern onto the cloth, using a Quilter’s Marking Pencil, then used Fray Check along all the outlines.  Once I had that done I lightly penciled in the seams on the main sail.  Sewing the seams seemed fairly easy and I was able to keep the seam lines straight.
 
I used a small spatula to crease the hem folds then ironed and pinned the hems.  I only burned my fingers four or five times.  I used the instructions posted by DBorgens in his Lessons Learned Sewing Sails, posted 19 April 2013.  His method provides for a 1/8 inch hem when finished.
 
Now came the fun part!  I set up and began sewing the hems.  It’s not as easy to sew along a hem fold as it would appear.  I drifted off the hem line several times and when I tried to rip out the stitches it looked horrible.  Fortunately I had enough practice material to remake the sails a couple of times.  I hand finished the corners and sewed in the grommets.
 
Hopefully the Bluenose sails will go a little better and the end product will be much straighter.

I’ve been going back over the information I have on sail making and have found it somewhat lacking when it comes to washing and treating the cloth.  My first mistake was to hand-wash the cloth then fully dry it before ironing.  This just produced wrinkles that would not iron out.
 
Fortunately I have a female friend that, among other things, is a seamstress and artist.  She sent me the following information on handling linen (it also applies to muslin):
 
“When hand-washing linen for the first time, you need to soak it briefly in lukewarm water before washing.  When washing, use natural soap and cold water.  Linen will shrink anywhere from 4 - 6%.
 
As you now know, linen wrinkles readily.  Linen fabrics also soften with age.  Bast/plant based fibers such as linen require a little more care when laundering (i.e., bleach will weaken natural fibers and it yellows linen).
 
You need to dry wet linen on a flat surface, using towels underneath; unless you have access to new printmaking felts, which would be the very best choice for water absorption.  I suspect you may have gently hand twisted the fabric to remove excess water and also used a dryer.  Either one would have added to the fabric wrinkling.
 
You can avoid wrinkling by placing the wet linen flat, smoothing it with your hands if needed, on a layer of cotton bath towels.  You may need to pick up the linen by the corners and transfer it to a new stack of towels or roll it inside a layer of towels to wick the moisture from the fabric.
 
Back to the fabric drying…while the linen is still damp, not dry in any areas, this is the time to get out that friendly iron and iron the cloth while it is still damp with an iron setting of medium or high heat.  Begin with medium heat, moving to high is my suggestion.
 
Preparing the linen fabric before cutting the shapes is the better way to go.  You can store the remainder of the linen fabric by rolling it over a 100% cotton towel with a smooth surface and it will be ready for your next ship sail project.”
 
I applied her information to the muslin I have for the Bluenose Sails.  Using a Quilter’s Marking Pencil I transferred the sail patterns to the muslin and added the seam lines.

Sewing progresses very slowly.  I’m still learning how to handle the sewing machine.  You would think this would be fairly simple, but no!  I’m finding that the most difficult part of sewing the seams in the sails is starting a line to stitching.
 

 
If you don’t control the top and bottom threads, keeping them taught with a finger as you begin the stitch, the bottom thread will sometimes snag the top thread and pull it under the cloth.  This causes it to be tangled into the stitching.  Of course you don’t discover this until after you’ve finished the entire line of stitching.  Sometimes I can very carefully pull the thread out and tighten the stitching.  Sometimes I can’t and then it requires taking out the entire line of stitching and doing it over again.  I’m learning!
 
Once I have the seams sewn into the sail pattern it leaves “Irish Pennants” along the hem line.  Using a regular sewing needle I bring the top thread back through the cloth and tie it to the bottom thread with a square knot.
 


 
Once all the seams are sewn in I dampened the sail cloth and ironed all the wrinkles out.  Now it’s time to start cutting out the patterns.
 

 
I’ve used Fray Check along all the sail pattern outlines to prevent the cloth from unraveling after it’s cut.  I also painted a thin solution of white glue to all the outside areas that will be folded to form the hems.  I’m hoping this will add just enough stiffness to allow for a nice crisp fold.
 
As I said; slow progress, but, “softly, softly, catchee monkey.”
 

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 21 – Keelson/Forward Deadwood continued
 
 
American Clipper Note:  When Young America was launched in the spring of 1853, her builder, William Webb, incensed by some critical press, issued a challenge to the owners of the fast McKay clipper Sovereign of the Seas to a two-ship, head-to-head race from New York to San Francisco.  Excitement and bookmaking activity ran high.  Unfortunately Sovereign sailed for China.  Major disappointment all around.
 
Work on the forward sections of the keelson and the deadwood continues.  The first picture shows the second section of the lower tier of the deadwood being glued to the frames – held in place by pins with wood chocks buffers.
 

 
Below is a lower view of this from aft.
 

 
This view shows the pronounced v-shape of the most forward frames and illustrates the issue of securing timber to make the floor members of these.
 
Before these keelson sections could be installed, the insides of the floor and lower futtock timbers had to be faired – at least up the the floor heads.  The next picture shows this finish-work more clearly.
 

 
Apart from the issue of flatness across the centers of the frames, it is difficult to do this work with the keelson in place.
 
The next picture shows anoth piece of the deadwood being fitted over the forward end of the lower keelson.
 

 
This picture also shows the mounting nut that is about to be covered forever by the upper tier of the keelson.
 
In the next picture the forward section of the upper keelson tier is installed and anoth piece of the deadwood jigsaw puzzle being fitted.
 

 
In the next picture that piece is being glued in place.
 

 
Again, the dark discoloration on the wood is from washing off the excess glue.
 
Finally, as shown below, the last piece of the deadwood has been installed.  The sun has shown through the window and lightened this picture to help me celebrate the event.
 

 
In the next part, I will cover the risky task of cutting large scores in both sides of the deadwood to seat the cant frames.
 
Ed

Yes we will!

Wooden ship kit manufacturers seldom show a painted completed model on the kits box art. I think this practice has instilled the idea in some people’s heads that the finished kit should be left unpainted. I think the kit manufacturers actual intentions though are only to clearly depict the different materials provided in the kit and a painted model would disguise the different species of wood or white metal or brass parts the kit features. This aside, there is a lot to be said for the practice of leaving a model unpainted that has nothing to do with how kits are marketed. Demonstrating to the viewer a models true nature is best done without covering anything with paint. For instance it would make no sense at all to paint a bone model.  On the other hand I don’t think any serious plastic kit model builders ever leave any part of a finished plastic kit unpainted, their goal is to produce something that “looks like the real thing”, not to “demonstrate the true nature” of the styrene plastic the kit was made of. So I think the intentions of the builder dictate weather or not to use paint. I will point out though that there were no unpainted ships sailing the world’s oceans. Every exterior surface on a wooden ship was painted tarred oiled or varnished in one way or another in order to protect the ship from the elements and any wooden vessel that didn’t get some sort of surface coating would quickly be reduced to driftwood by the marine environment.

Hello Shlhawk,
 
That's a very good question and the funny thing is that I have been actually faced with exactly the same issue regarding HMS Victory and paint. I am building a model for someone and I'm trying to figure out a way to build it without paint. But, I don't like the way the ship looks without paint. Or at least the way the completed kit might look if I build it without paint.
 
Personally, I think the bias for no paint on a model is just a bias. It's all personal opinion and my own is that paint can frame a model quite nicely and create a contrast that can make the wood on a model stand out. Most ships never looked the way an all wood finish model looks, but that's fine if that's what you like. I'm thinking I'd like to build the Victory with natural wood tone for the yellow bands and for the area that would normally be coppered and then where it's black, I'd like to paint it. Then, that makes it easier to paint the stern galleries which might look a bit odd unpainted while using the kit supplied parts, at least to me.
 
In my experience, when someone asks what people think about a topic, they usually have something in mind and are looking for some encouragement to follow their own ideas. If you feel your model should be all natural, then that's the way you should build it, and if you think it needs some paint, then don't worry about it and go ahead and paint. There should be plenty of examples of both on MSW.
 
As for my case, I need to figure out a way to convince the owner that we'll have a great looking model with my limited paint scheme plan. So, unfortunately, I can't follow my own advice and just do it the way I want. 
 
But, good luck and regardless of what you decide, I'll be looking forward to seeing your build here on MWS,
 
Clare

Greetings to Elia, Popeye, Banyan, Sjors, Anthony, Ian and Boris and thank you all for dropping in.  Did you get enough beer and popcorn?  Sjors was buying   
 
@ Ian, you know, our daughter is still talking about it and planning to build that railroad.  She and I designed a nice little mining and lumbering layout, with a small river loading dock! 
As far as the mine issue goes, it's really tempting but let me get my head wrapped around drawing up the plans for the con first, then we;ll see - - - - or sooner 
 
@ Boris, yes, thanks for sending these, they are great and add to my collection.  I have send you also a few pics I found in my files and the digital pics Remco send me from the Navy Archive.  You could machine them from copper or wood or sculpt them from Sculpy.  I'm waiting for the copper that Paul mailed to me and will try to use that.
 
@ Popeye, thanks for looking.  Remco also came up with an idea and we are looking into that as well.  Fortunately there are only a few letters and numbers I need    The small ones at the bow for the load levels are the ones that can be gotten from model railroad places.
 
Well, today was also a day away from the shipyard.  Went to our monthly colored pencil society chapter meeting and then mowed our backyard lawn.  
Besides the mine issue I am also in a dilemma about the bow side anchor.  Remco went to the Navy Archive and could find nothing on that anchor but according to three photos I have there seem to have been a small standard anchor.  I'll show the pics below.  I won't cut into the side of the deck structure until I have something more positive on the anchor.  I think that this will also be guesswork but as long as it looks similar to what I see on the photo then I'll be happy.
 
I'll also add a few pics of mines being loaded.  These are training mines by the way.  This too was not a simple procedure.
 
 
This shows the O 19 surfacing after a test dive in Scotland after she was overhauled in 1944.  When you enlarge the picture you should be able to see the bottom of a small anchor.
 

This is what I think this anchor could look like.
 

This is another example of the type anchor they could have used, much smaller of course.
 

 

 
Cheers,