rybakov

Hello, 
here is the continuation of making the block strops for the guide blocks of the foremast top.
 

@Dowmer
@FriedClams
Hello,
thanks for your positive comments and all the others for the LIKES.

The foremast top also requires various guide blocks. These are attached to the underside, as can be seen in the first picture.

Quelle: Musée de la Marine Paris – La Crèole   
The small blocks of around 3.5 mm in length are only indicated by the sheaves.
The large blocks, as seen in the picture for example, I equip with brass sheaves.

 
For making the block strops I will serve ropes with a diameter of 0.35 mm. More about that soon.

Back to the conductors 🙂
 
We had a good discussion about the theme in our german forum:
https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t1912f643-Blitzableiter-an-Schiffen.html
 
 
Also NMM has nice exhibits 🙂
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/63401.html

REL0295 Main royal masthead from French flagship 'L'Orient' which exploded during the battle of the Nile. Lord Minto mentions it on display at Nelson's house at Merton in 1802. Pine mast with an iron fitting, which contains a sheave to take the signal halyard. A brass lightning conductor inscribed 'L'Orient' is attached to the top, bent in a loop. The whole is fixed to a square stand. [It is probably more accurate to date it to 'circa 1795', since the ship was under construction in 1793 (when the British failed to burn her on the stocks at Toulon) and it was certainly made and fitted before the Battle of the Nile when it was taken up from the sea after 'L' Orient' exploded. PvdM 2/13] Date made    circa 1798
 
Also the museum in Amsterdam has a nice model equipped with one:
 

 
 

XXXDAn

And in order not to frighten the suspicious and spoiled audience, we continue with another dismantling. 
 
First, a look at the scene of crime, the middle battery deck.
 

 
The normal tiller is located in the lower battery deck under the deck beams. The picture shows in the foreground how the rudder head protrudes into the middle battery deck, with the slot for the emergency tiller in case the lower one is damaged. Handy in times of storm and battle.
 

 
On the Vic in P., the rudder head is covered with an 8-cornered oval cowl. So far I haven't found such a part in the contemporary records. The contemporary model of the Princess Royal and other models show a cowl that goes all the way to the rear seat under the windows.
 

 
So snap away the current cover ...
 

 
... and new window seats, using a figure to determine the seat height, the total height was determined by the lower edge of the window.
 

 
The depth is based on the model of the Princess Royale. After some fiddling, the cover and the two benches were built.
 

 
Another cutter blade was profiled to be able to score the surrounding profile ...
 

 
... and the whole lot adjusted in place. That's when the great depth caught my eye. Even though it was certainly used for storage, it was much too deep.
 

 
In case of battle, both the bench and the cover would have been dismantled to get to the hidden stern chasing ports. And you can see now on the gun how much space is wasted in this version with the bench. 
 

 
Here again the rudder head ...
 

 
... with the slot for the emergency tiller. So I shorten the bench a bit in depth.
 

 
Here the port side has already been shortened ...
 

 
... and here the other side as well.
 

 
And our master is having a good time 🙂
Then another blade was profiled and a drawing iron made for the frame lining of the window frames.
 

 
And this is how it looks now 🙂
 

 
XXXDAn
 

Hello,
and many thanks for your likes and wishes.
After a short break between the years, I'm back at the shipyard. Now all port lids at least are build, but not all are lined. 
 

 

 
At the picture above you see the lids without lining, flush with the planking. At the picture below the lids have already the lining, and they are now not flush with the planking. All who where not ill with measles ore what else when it came to addition at school, know what is now to do. And that is not a shortcut ☹️
 

 

 
Above without lining and below with lining. 
 

 
At the picture above the lids are looking more like at most historic models. At the Centurion (below) is interesting, that they build the lids just plain, without the bulky wails or thick planking on top! 
 

Good morning and thank you all, more pictures of the capes, next step I will start with the sculptures.
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Un Saluto.

Good morning and thanks to all for the likes, more photos....
 
 

 

 

 

 

 
Un saluto.

Continuation. 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
Pawel 

And now the hull has been "tarred".
 
I think the stain turned out OK Compare for example with the pictures that @Mike Y shared earlier in this thread. The slightly uneven coloration looks quite realistic. I do plan to put a coat of dark shellac on top, so it will be become even darker.
 
In the end my mix was 3 parts light oak, 1 part mahogany, 1 part ebony stains and 5 parts water.

The riveting has also started.
 

Once the artillery was finished, I mounted the rudder and started the shroud holders:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The planks that go around the mast partners and coamings are difficult to make and took some careful planning. In a failed attempt, I tried to make all the cutouts at one time. Rather than waste more wood, I decided to make card stock templates that closely matched the area being worked on. The plan was to work one tab at a time. Once a tab was completed, I would then move onto the next tab.
 

 

 
This template was tricky because it required spanning two tabs in order to establish the proper shape. Notice how the tab tapers in width.

 
When it came time to glue, I adhered a short section of the plank to the false deck. This would make it easier to finish up the remaining unglued areas afterwards. Softer wood strips were used as clamps against the margin plank.

 
Once the glue was set, I moved onto gluing the remaining areas of the plank.

 
Pillar files and a sanding stick were used to shape the parts. Sticky back sandpaper was adhered to the stick and sanded flush with its edge.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
Mike
 
 

Thanks so much, JR, it sounds like you have done a great deal of research. I look forward to hearing more as you are able to give the project more attention. I might start writing down all of the issues that I don't understand yet, particularly the belaying points.
 
Now I have confirmed that I can indeed form and blacken the iron work, I am looking ahead to another piece of ironwork that I put off dealing with until now. That is the capsquares on the gun carriages. I am still considering the possibility of installing the carriages now, but leaving the barrels off until a few years later, when I have completed more of the upper works and decks, and will be less liable to accidentally knock a cannon out of place from the outside.
 
But that means the capsquares would have to really hinge up, so I could insert the barrel through the gun port with epoxy on the trunnions, slip them under the capsquares, and press the capsquare down in place.
 
I made a crude mockup of a cap square, just to see how small they are, and how well I could make them hinge.
 

 
Not well, I found out. the flat plate is too long, doesn't allow pivoting around the eyebolt head. So more work to do here.
 
To make these more efficiently, I am thinking about making a small die, which would press the right shape, and then align drilling for the bolts.
I know the eyebolt and joint bolt are both rectangular in section, but I am thinking this will make it exceedingly difficult to manufacture and install at this small scale. I am interested if others have managed something like this at 3/16" scale.
 

 
And these are the largest cannon. It will get progressively more difficult as the guns get smaller on upper decks!
 
Best wishes,
 
Mark
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hello,
first of all, I would like to thank you for the positive reaction and of course for the many LIKES.
 
As can be seen in the following picture, the last eye for attaching the last ratlines of the futtock shrouds of the foremast has just been spliced directly on model.


This gives me cause to deal with the execution of the shrouds of the topmasts and subsequently with the corresponding ratlines.
Some time ago I dealt intensively with the diameters of the ropes for the ratlines. In this respect I may refer to the corresponding passages in my construction report: LINK (you have to scroll down).
After several attempts and interesting discussions in various forums, I finally decided to make the ratlines of the lower shrouds of my model with ø 0.35 mm (corresponds to ø16.8 mm in the original). In retrospect, this decision proved to be completely correct. The weaving lines of ø 0.43 mm (ø 21 mm in the original), according to the information in the monograph by Jean Boudriot, would appear too thick on the model.
Since the topmast shrouds were much thinner than the lower shrouds (comparison on the model: topmast shrouds of the foremast ø 0.66 mm / foremast shrouds ø 1.08 mm), their ratlines should also have smaller diameters.
At the moment, I am therefore trying to clarify whether the required eye splices can be made with rope thicknesses of ø 0.25 mm. For this purpose, I made a splicing tool with a smaller diameter ø 0.8 mm, as shown in the next picture.

 
The making of an eye splice (push through 2 times) with a rope thickness of ø 0.35 mm has become quite successful due to much practice. With a 0.25 mm diameter, it is much more difficult and not yet so easy. The macro shots make the whole thing seem more harmless than it actually is.
Whether I can apply this to the topmast shrouds in this way, I will have to clarify and ultimately decide in due course through further trials. Alternatively, a cow hitch knot would be conceivable. Both possibilities are shown in the last picture with a rope corresponding to the topmast shrouds. Below I show a comparison of a ratline connection as it has been made for the lower mast shrouds.
In the end, I like the version with an eye splice better, as it is not so thick and comes closer to the original.

 
What is your opinion?
 

Before resuming the main trail, I had to clean and look for parts.
 
I was also asked how big my little one could get, and to my shame I have to confess that after more than 10 years I didn't even know ...
So I put in the jib, the flying jib and the gaff boom and hung up the mainsail yard with the stun´sail spars. So the dimensions were taken: 105 cm x 52 cm x 73 cm. Good that I know now 🙂
 
Here are some pictures of the actual state.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
But you guessed it, setting main yard was not done so quickly. 1805 was in the middle of the war and Lees describes that the lower yard slings were replaced by chains during this war periods. As I had a piece of chain of the right length, this was immediately used for this purpose. But in the process it was noticed that the two scuttles for this were still missing in the main fighting top, as was the nailing ...
 

 
... so this was quickly done.
 

 

 
Here the comparison with the fore top: brown is the kit, white the new structure, as the tops were to be built in two parts from 1802 onwards to simplify repairs.
 

 
And then the main yard could be finally set, correctly with chain 🙂
 

 

 

 
Note the following detail: On the starboard side, the stopper cleat of the square rig is shaped like a bow, as it is on the Vic today. On the port side it is formed as a shoulder, as shown by Lees, Schrade and some contemporary models. I have not yet been able to find out which variant was used when.
As always, questions about questions.
XXXDAn

Thank you SIrs!
 
Happy new year!
And what better way to celebrate than with a proper demolition, something I had already planned for some time. In September 2010, I was quite happy for one more rare occasion again, to be able to glue a part coming straight from the casting branch, just as the god of molds created it, directly to the model without pimping or without any further fuss.
 
See here it is, the little crown ...
 

 
... by now I'm pretty sure that was not placed there around 1805. Probably an invention of 1920, when restoring to the Trafalgar state, for lack of better knowledge at that time. As the beam is called cathead, there usually was a cat's or lion's head on it in the initial phase. At the time of the Victory's construction, however, a kind of compass rose was common, sometimes also an anchor. Since the 1765 model of the Vic shows this compass rose and also the 1805 model, which was wrongly called "Victory", had such a rose, I felt quite confident to skip my sweet little crown with a light heart.
 
I made a compass rose out of modeling clay, and since the dimensions were tiny and tight, I printed the outlines on baking paper and was thus able to easily form to the true dimensions and to detach the fragile structure.
 

 
Once fit test on a replacement cathead with a specimen that proved too thick ...
 

 
... and I bravely swung the blade.
 

 
The new part was quickly glued in place ...
 

 
... and still a little paint was put on it. 
 

 
And as a gif it gives a little impression of the depth effect. Enjoy 🙂
 

 
I know I've had other demolition orgies before, I just got out of practice 😉
 
All the best, Daniel

I was ready to install the gun deck standards, when I realized that I should probably put in the eyebolts and rings for the guns when I still have a little maneuvering room. I made up a few eyebolts and rings out of copper, and blackened them with JAX for copper following the instructions on the bottle. Looked great, until all the black came right off when I picked them up with needle nose pliers to push them into the holes in the quickwork. 
 
So, then I tried Ed Tosti's method in his book on the Naiad, using Liver of Sulphur which can be painted on even after the metalwork is installed in the wood. This worked, as can be seen in this sample:

 
That means I could install the eyebolts, then blacken them in place.

 
 
But then I realized that I would need to seize the breaching ropes around the rings off the model, which means that I can't then blacken the rings after installation without messing up the rope.
 
So, I read David Antscherl's advice more carefully on blacking, in the Fully Framed Model series. He advised diluting blackening agents as much as 8:1 with water. It acts much more slowly--it took mine about 45 minutes instead of a few seconds--but it was beautifully black and stable. 
 
I tried it on a strap on the stern timbers, a beautiful sheen to the black, just like iron.

 
So, the next test is to make up ring/eyebolts , blacken them with JAX, and assemble with a breaching rope and seizing. Then try installing and see if the black stays on.
 
Much to learn about metal!
 
Mark
 
 
 
 

Thanks so much, JR, for your kind comments, and druxey for your reminder of time scales.  I wish there were as much detailed information for 1760 as there is in later books like Fincham. As I discovered in the earlier thread here on the standard at the stem, even a difference of 30 years--between 1750 and 1780--seems to make a difference. It is interesting to see trends towards bigger or smaller, and wood or iron, over these time periods. 
 
JR, I would be interested in hearing more from you about your studies on the Bellona rigging.  I spent a fair amount of time years ago trying to understand this, and still do not have it completely clear in my mind.
 
So far, I have relied primarily on the table of masts and yards lengths and diameters from a Plymouth dockyard document, 1754, in James Lees, Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War. For additional details on the masts and yards like hounds, caps, crosstrees, etc., I used Mungo Murray's Treatise on Masting, ca. 1765. I looked at data for an 80 gun ship based on the 1745 Establishment, which seemed in overall size to be about the same as a 74 gun ship ca. 1760, which is the Bellona.
 
All other rigging information I have taken from Lees for various dates at which rigging details came into general use. I also looked to Steel for tables of rigging sizes. But Steel is a good half century later than the Bellona, and I am not sure how much changed in that period.
 
But there are still some discrepancies and omissions in my own understanding. And while it might be a long time before I get to rigging, I have to be thinking about belaying points built into the hull somewhat sooner.  
 
I would be happy to exchange information with you about this. I have a spreadsheet linking all of my research together.
 
Best wishes,
 
Mark
 
 

What goes well for yesterday photos set up, strangely it is easier to take deep inside photo without flash, only with LED lights.
Today's photos, again the key factor is  the LIGHTING more than the camera. For interior photos of today, a smaller camera was used.
 
Which of these camera will gives the better result:  a phone, or one action camera? Action camera is the good answer. I have been experimenting for years "small cameras". The first one was a Microsoft 1080p, up to the last one in 2020, a 4K Yi camera. Today the small camera used was a Go Pro. As with every camera, there is a learning curve, and I am still learning this one, but the results look like promising.

Well, it finally happened. Lockdown began in the UK, and I ran out of the rope I needed to continue with Ethalion... so, it was over to Stefano for a bit...
 
The build begins with the parts for the false keel being taken out of the walnut sheet. These are laser cut and fit well. Here they are laid out...
 

 
The angle on the cut was quite significant (I don't know whether it's more than on other builds, as I've only built CNC cut parts before. I didn't sand these down as they were a snug fit already, and I didn't want to make the joint loose. Instead, I glued it as was (but NOT the stern post or the front of the bow part... I want these to be nice and neat, so I'll add them later).
 
I spent some time thinning down the stern so that the planking will not stick out from the stern post when added. The stern post will not be added until at least the first planking is complete, and that way I'll be able to thin the first planking down to 1mm short of the width of the post, so that it fits nicely when the second planking goes on... Here's the thinning in progress (test fitted with the other parts)
 

 
And how it looks once glued... 
 

 
Here they are being glued (I discovered that baking paper DOES stick to carpenter's glue *sigh*...  The metre ruler makes sure that the keel is glued straight.
 

 
Having glued the parts together, I spent a little time working on a rabbet at bow and stern to provide a guide for the planking. This was done with a proxxon mini drill and an engraving tool... it's a bit messy, but I'll tidy it up once the balsa is in.
 
The next day, I noticed there was a little twist in the keel - but I'm not expecting this to be an issue once the hull structure is together.
 
I made up the building board with some highly engineered parts being used for the bow and stern supports (courtesy of my son!) - it turns out if you leave one dot between the side supports, then add 2mm of wood, it makes the perfect width for the walnut to fit in.
 
 
 
I went ahead and took out the bulkheads... 

 
These are beautifully cut. No issues at all about shaping... They look perfect. Trial fits confirmed that they are indeed very accurate... The 14mm dowels that connect them together were cut to size as per the plans (nb: the top and bottom plans measure slightly differently on sheet 3... I used the bottom measurements which are P5, as mentioned in the instructions. The difference isn't major, but certainly one to watch out for.
 
The main-mast step is fitted into bulkhead 12. This has to fit so that the step goes back to the notch on the false keel, but with the hole itself sitting slightly inside the extent of the bulkhead so that the part is flush with the forward edge of the bulkhead. It makes sense when you put it together, and the plans and instructions are well done. Whatever you do, don't do what I nearly did and glue it onto the false keel blocking the way for the bulkhead to be inserted!
 

 
At this stage bulkhead 12 is glued to the mast step, but nothing is glued to the false keel.
 
A strip is added to bulkhead 2, which will act as the deck support. I used some leftover walnut from Ethalion, but it does tell you which wood you can use in the kit. The top side is curved... I didn't try to edge bend the wood, I just sanded a curved profile in it. This was nice and easy.
 
You'll notice in the images below that the upper two holes in Bulkhead 2 are assymetrical (the left hand hole is further from the bowsprit hole... There's no mention of this as far as I can tell in the instructions... I'm working on the assumption that I can fix it later easily enough if I need to, but in the meantime, I looked at the MarisStella.hr log, and copied their prototype... Hence the pencil marking for aft / fore on either side. You'll need to work this out before you stick on the strip because it goes on the aft side.
 

 

 
All this gets hidden under the raised deck platform at the bow, so I'm not too concerned about looks. No-one will see it, from what I can tell.
 
This post is quite long enough, so I'll start another one.
 
Happy building
 
Rob
 

Let me start by wishing everybody a happy but for foremost healthy 2021!!
 
 
I have been very busy with getting a grip on the CNC world. Getting the machine to run and do something is not the isssue. the issue is getting into the machine what you want to get out of it :).
And I am succeeding. I chose this path because I know handworking and sculpting is not my thing. I tried several times but my artistik qualities are too low.
So I concluded I am a 'technical' guy and hence approached the problem from a technical point of view. Thus the CNC. I started in Artcam/Carveco but ended up with Vectric. It was a steep learning curve but I am happy I did it. It can bring my build to a new level.
 

 

 

Wauw, just realise its been 2 months since an update. Now I also have been busy building other projects and some holidays. But some progress was made, so here he goes.
I finished the deck planking and did some roping as later on I would not reach the knights head anymore.
 
 

 
 

 

 

 
During the clamping of the inner planking a clamp spri=ung off. I was uncarefull in placing it so I had to repair the parts carefully. I used sanded dust and diluted glue as I did not want to replace the parts. I was quite succefull i think.

 

 
 

 
 
Then I also decided to add the kitchen chimney. A wooden block was made to shape. Then 0.4 copper was used to build it and a edge of 1mm copper to complete the image.
 
 

 

 

 

 

Nearly another month, time for an update.
 
As I was working on the bowsprit I decided to finish all mast and all parts of the masts.
 
 
 

 

 
 
 



 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 
 

 
 
Highest point reached!! Time for a beer

 

 
 
Experimenting with rope, as it is nearing time to fix some rope. As I cannot reach that anymore after closing the deck.

 
 

 
 
1mm drill bit

As the new moth approaches time for another update.
The first part of the deck, all between the strakes, had been finished, still dry fit. And I will keep it dry fit for some time as to keep acces to the orlop.

I did some parts on the main deck, like the kolderstok.


Also the Rusts for the putting irons were made





And next was the bowmast. I still needed to make the bottom fitting square and making a holder for it.
During this I found the mast not properly alinged and thatw as adjusted.


 

 

 

Final and correct aligment now.

 
Creating some other parts on the deck.

 

 

 
 

Due to corona there is quite some spare time, so I progressed nicely.
 
The deck beams for the halfdeck (english Quarterdeck I believe?) were all finished so I could start working on the closing of the maindeck. That meant making a lot of gratings...  It took me the last 2.5 weeks to get it done. But more on that later
But I started first on the schaarstokken, thickers strakes then the normal deck planks.
 
That meant collecting a lot of saw dust but also some fine sanding to have them fit correctly over the deckbeams.
 
Sawing the strakes, thickness 2x the deck planking wich will be 1.8mm thick and just about 8mm wide. And they are sawed so that the top is just as wide as a deckplank and that the top is flush with the planking.


 

Milling the inserts for the beams. Not straight in first instance, the pieces moved. so I had to improve holding the pieces of wood against the miter. I used sanding paper

 

The lot finished from fore to aft.

After that I started on the gratings. Man that took me long to get it right. I followed a russian builders example but soon found out that it was noy my way of doing.
It was based on sawing to 2 pieces and mount them counter wise and then removing top and bottom half. It was all too fragile for me.

When removing the surplus material the parts were always easily damaged

I went to making a saw sled mould that could saw both directions accurately and then filling with seperate pins.
Be ware this is all 2mm in all directions, wide long and deep.
This still took some inventing to do as my sawblades (Byrnes saw) were all US in inches. So at last after finding a kerf 2mm sawblade it still had to be mounted to the arbor.
But an adpater ring was easily found (Thanks mr Bosch!)

 
Here prepared for striking it with heavily diluted PA glue with water. After drying it is better to work on.

 
I then found my spacing of deckbeams irregular out of line. So I had to go back to redoing the strakes with correct, even spacing.

 Status of today. I still have to redo the middle grating of the 5 adjoining. I cut it a little short as you can see.
But overall satisfied with the result.
7
 
So I will continue to finish this deck and then probably the inner hull planking up to the half deck
 
C U later, Hans.

Hello,
here is the continuation for the futtock shrouds of the foremast.

 

 
The futtock shrouds are temporarily attached so that corrections can still be made.