bear

Ahoy Mates

First I know that I am the builder and can do what I want with my model.

At our building groups meeting yesterday when showing them the progress on my Union Picket boat build,I showed them a test painted strip of the black that I will be painting the hull. They asked me why I was going to paint over the nice job that I had done on the planking of the hull?

Doug in our group was even mad at me for thinking of doing it. He has had a hard time with planking on his Boiunty and had to use quite a lot of filler on his planking. And said that it was not right to hide the planking on my build behind black paint.

I have thought about covering the planking that I had spent spiling and making sure that the steelers were used in the correct shape and size. I used this build to realy get ready for my build of the Caldercraft Mary Rose and other models that i have to build that will be bare wood,just sealed in clear.

I told them that I had thought of just painting black one complete side of the model leaving the other without paint to show the woodwork used in building the model. Or that I would just mask off an area on the hull when I paint it black,that will then only be in the clear coat showing the planks.

Have you seen any builds that have been painted with areas that have the wood planking showing without the paint covering them? And if so,what was the shape and size of the area that was showing the details?

What would be your siugestions as to shape,area(size of masked off area) and area of hull or areas to mask off and show?

Thanks ahead of time for your input.

Keith

Hi

What figures in 1/72 have you have for your build? I am interested in the 1/72 figures that you have. 

 I will be starting a build of a 1/48 scale Mary Rose in the next week or so. Just the hull will be around  34 5/8" long,with a beam of around  9 1/2" I have the 1/80 Jotika Mary Rose kit and want to scale one up from this kit. Want it in 1/48 to match most of my other builds.

I ordered some 1/72 figures from Fredericus-Rex in Germany last week. Will let you know what they look like when I recieve them. They have already shipped. Will see just how big they are in 1/72. If they are to the short side of the scale,I will use them on my 1/80 Mary Rose build.

As for the 1/48 scale build,I will have to use figures from another time period and change them.

Keith

Hi Andy

Thanks,thats just what I have been looking ofr as to drawings of the Hunley. Now I can add it to my models to build list.

Thanks again for the help.

This site is the BEST on the internet. Other sites are with their self important trolls would just as soon ask why I wanted to make it,or make some other jerk comment.

NOT HERE,the Greatest site on the internet.

Keith

Great work. Are there any drawings now avaliable with dimensions of the Hunley as found now, so that you can make a scale model of it? All the previous drawings and models are out of date and wrong since the recovery of the Hunley.

And are there any photos close up showing the details of the hull plates as to the spacing,size and locations of the rivets and screws and plate sizes?

Would like to build a model of the Hunley in 1/24-1/12 scale for display.

Keith

Look at the Caldercraft Models PE brass hooks. They are made out of hard brass and I got mine thru Cornwall Model Boats along with other rigging hooks and eyebolts. They are larger than Syrens thats listed below. Just go to Cornwalls fittings area and lookup Caldercraft.

I have the Syren 3mm and 4mm laser cut .010 thick black vinyl Hooks. I like them for the smaller scales and rigging because you do not have to blacken or paint them. Just cut them off the carrier sheet-175 pcs per order from Chuck. They are PERFECT for gun carriage rigging block hooks! And a GREAT VALUE. I am not working or paid by Chuck in any way. Just a happy customer.

I use the brass for the larger models and areas that have to have tension on the lines,while use the vinyl on small rigging where there is little force on the lines other than just the weight of the line and blocks.

Happy building

Keith

Hi

I just finished building my Sloop a couple of weeks ago. Just a sugestion,you might want to remove the bowsprit until you have finished rigging the mast and all thats behind it.

I found that it was realy nice to not have to look out when I was moving the ship around to do all of the rest of the rigging. I had seen others in our building group pull their har out when they were rigging their Niagara's with its bowsprit.

I afstened all that I could to the bowsprit before I finialy set it in place. I did not glue it or even pin it in place. It fit snug in the metal strap and hole in the bow.

I realy had an easyer time with being able to run the lines and rope coils under the mast and around the deck before installing the bowsprit.

I did run a temperary forestay line from the topmast to the hole in the bow for the bowsprit,to keep a tension on the mast while doing all of the backstays and shrouds. After completing all of the rigging aft of the mainmast is when I put the bowsprit in place and finished up the rest of the rigging.

Keith 

Hi Harvey1847

Glade that I bought my books months ago. At that time they were around $79 each,sounds like they are OOP and the new stock is gone.

 As of minutes ago the US Amazon site has the books on the Weapons of the Mary Rose. They are listed at list price for now. Not the OOP premium prices  for now.

The only issue that I have with the books are that they do not have drawings of what they think represents what ship looked like above the discovered areas, which is what modlers want. But they only deal with what they have found in the recovery.

Keith

Greetings

I have all of the books you write about from the Trust plus others on the Tudor era navy and the Jotika/Caldercraft kit. Looking forward to seeing your crosssection build.

Do you know of any recient drawings on what they have found out about the Forecastle details since these books were published? I had heard that the new information showed that there were diferences in shape from the books reditions and drawings.

Keith

Hi  wq3296

As to the 1/16",I was scaling it down to 1/48 scale,which is .0013 . As to the difference between 12" and 15" spacing being 3" which in 1/48 scale would be .0625. Which is were you got the 1/16",now I see what you were talking about in variations in the spacing being 1/16".

It coud be the same type variations in the heights of the deadeyes. As you noted in real life there would be very few instances where they were all the same spaces and heights.

Now,add that you are entering a built model into a contest,if they were not all perfect,just what kind of deductions would take place for uneven Deadeys and random spaced ratlines?

I just look at it as to what would be a "guideline" or "ballpark" measurment be. And if there were differences between civil and naval ship rigging. 

Thanks for adding to my knowledge base on rigging this week. And for the help it was in my current build.

Keith

Thanks for all the information and  opinions. I have just finished with my ratlines on my MSW"s Armed Virginia Sloop. I ended up setting the spacing at 14" or .291 in 1/48 scale. It looks right at that spacing.

I made up a spacing block so that I could check the spacing as I went along. Being the Toolmaker that I am they all came out within .020.

As to the 1/16"  building tolerance,I would presume that you are  talking about 1/16" in full scale,which would be .001 ?  I have made up displays to show our building group just how close of differences can be seen by your naked eyesight.

As for feeling diferences on a surface,the average person can feel height differences side to side of .0002.

I uild to variuos tolerances as everyone does.

It just is up to each person as to what is important to them. 

  I tied on the outside right shroud line and then went across to the other side. Just used the block to check along as I went. It's just takes time-about 3 hrs later they were all done.

I did not measure any of them with a dialcaliper,I just looked at how they compaired to the setting gauge stick,and how they looked as a whole. It's better to have a little variation. Too perfect can also standout as being unnatural.

Thanks

Keith

What is the spacing between ratlines?  Is it 11" in full sclae on a ship?

Thanks

Keith

You can see some photos of my completed Philadelphia on out groups blog  woodenshipclass.blogsspot.com  . 

Keith

For me it's just how you want to spend your time. I would rather spend my time on working on what will be seen. And not so much on the jigs to build the model.I only wish that I could paint to the level on the Flemish Galleon shown.

I agree with Chuck,it's only a variation on POB. And another layer of planking and using staples.I would think that the time spent to remove the staples carefully might outweigh there savings in time if any. It all goes into the catagory of just how you prefer to build.

Being a Tool and Diemaker,I go about building different  I would expect than a Cabinet Maker would. But I look at what it ends up being as the real fruit of your effort.

I realy like to see how others do their builds,and learn a lot in very one I see. And try to use what I see to further my building skills.

Keith

It realy comes down to just how many blades you use. I worked in a Tool and Die shop for the last 43 years,we had two bandsaws,with blade welders on each saw. They were electric and buttwelded the blades together.

The main things to get right are:

grinding the two ends square to each other

setting of the spring preasure that pushes the two ends together when the welding was done

annealing the blade after welding

grinding the weld seam down to even with the blade

Annealing the blade AGAIN after grinding

using the correct tension on the blade in use-too little will alow the blade to come off the wheels,too much will break the blade

I have worked with toolmakers that never could get a blade weld to hold. They just did not have an eye for seeing the right color of the blade when annealing-which is the heat range that you need to have-going thru blue to dull red,that's what worked out for me on our welders.

I have not seen them silver soldered,only electric welded by a blade welder.

A welder will not be cheap,so if you only use 5-6 blades a year,and do not saw out holes in parts,stay with the premade blades,find the correct lenght and maybe find a tool supplier in your area that makes up blades .They might be cheaper than ones that are premade one's.

The learning curve on bandsaw welding can be a long and fruitless indevore if you do not have the skill and luck in hitting the right combinations to welding a blade that wears outwithout breaking.

Note-a correctly welded blade should not break before it wears out,and even then it should not break.

AND MOST IMPORTANT_DO NOT USE YOUR FINGERS TO PUSH ANTHING THRU A SAW_ALWAYS USE A STICK THAT IS AT LEAST 4" THICK AND AWAY FROM WHERE YOU ARE PUSHING ON IT. THAT WAY IT WILL BE POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO STOP PUSHING AFTER IT GOES THRU WHAT YOU ARE CUTTING BEFORE IT GETS TO YOUR FINGERS AND HAND!!!!!!!!

i have been using machines in a shop since I was only 8 years old,and I still have ALL of my fingers and use of them. I have seen too many guys lose fingers and other parts to various machines. The saw is one of the most dangerous and unforgiving.

Just see how fast a frozen hotdog can be cut thru with a saw blade. A skip tooth will realy show you just how fast it can cut,faster than you can pull back from trying to push thru a wood part when it goes thru a soft spot.

Sorry about the lecture,but I have seen too many guys bleeding and having to order 5 beers using two hands instead of just five fingers on one hand.

Keith

Hi

I am just finishing up on my build of this kit. These are what I would say were the critical parts and their steps in importance in the build of this kit.

!- straight keel

2-bulkheads set level with the top of the keel,which will be the deck.To me this is what you will build the rest of the ship off of. You will go off of the deck for the height of the top rail,base the whale shape and level. 

3-the side to side of the bulkheads -center them up as close as possible-open up the slot in the middle to be able to move them. There are a couple in the middle that are not wide enough tho. Add strips to them,so that when you fair them in with the others,that you will have wood to even them up. Same goes with the tops of the bulkheads. Not all will be the right height,or thick eneogh after you start to fair in the shape of the hull.

Add strips to where you end up too short or wide.

The reason that you need to strt out with the deck level,and not going with the outside bottom of the bulkheads is that you can add or take off of the outside surfaces of the bulkheads in an easy way.

To level out the deck is NOT EASY TO DO- you do not have an open area to work with first off,then you have the thin basswood upper bulkhead tops that break when you just look at them.

So do yourself a favor to start out with,base your build with the top of the keel and all of the bulkhead deck surfaces level to each other-taper the bulkheads deck surfaces to match the curvature of the deck fore and aft and port to starboard before go to gluing.

After the deck is level,you need to make sure the bulkheads are 90 deg. to the keel,note the bulkheads might have a slight curve to them,not flat across,if they are not flat across,just make sure that they are even on each side.

Have fun,just take the time to start off on a level deck,it will realy make to rest of the build  an easy build.

Keith

I remeber when in 1971 Hotstuff Ca came out for use in RC planes. I used it for joining 1/16 and 1/32 balsa sheets together on edge for sheeting the front leading edges of wings on my 12 and 14 foot wingspan gliders. It was so great to be able to edge glue the sheets together instantly,just going down the seam.

It was named Hot Stuff for a reason,when the CA would link up and harden,it created enough heat to cause a "smoke" comming up from the wood where it was used. I still have a couple of these gliders,and the CA has stood up to the years and stress of the bending and warping of the wings in flying. Which is a lot more stress than of a static ship model's rigging or planking.

I still build gliders and use Ca only for tacking some parts in place. Tite Bond PVA and slow setting epxoy for the wing spar laminations is still the way to go. With full size aircraft- resorsinal (sorry about the spelling) is still the only FAA approved way to join wood.But you have to have tight joints for it to work best.

As for rigging,I only use Ca in very few areas,because of the fumes from the CA and the lack of working time,and how it makes the joint brittle.

Sometimes the old way still can be the best way. PVA is still the best all around way to go. But Ca has in my building stood thew test of time in my Glider building and long term use of 43 years in a couple of my RC Gliders.

Keith

Hi Max

Your build looks great. I have the Caroline also.As for the brass castings of the figures,I plan to replace the heads and faces with metal and plastic ones from figures that have full details of the face that I have found. The one's that they give you in the kit are what I would term as "Blob Faces".

I just wish that we could buy an aftermarket set for us that are not up to sculpting our own replacements. I just hate to do a good job on the rest of the build and then have to use these clunky brass castings,and since they will catch your eye first,they realy do not come up to the curent standards of model building.

I enjoy following your build progress,and take notes for when I work on my kit in the future.

Thanks

Keithl

Hi Steve

I finished my build months ago. Our building group at our now closed hobby shop built the Philadelphia as the thrid group build. I bought hte two books on the Philadelphia,one had the Smithsonian prints in it. I put all of the nails in my model. There are over 2,500 .025 square nails in my hull. I drilled all of the holes first with a .022 dia. drill. Then I opened the round hole with a .028 square pin. I then put in .025 square white Evergreen styrene plastic into each hole. I used Titebond to hold them in. When I put them in,I left them about 1/16" aboue the serface of the planks.

I then cut them down so that they were about .025 above the surface. After staining the hull in it's first coat,I then sanded them down to where they are .015-.010 above the surface. After the rest of the hull and decks were finished,I then using a steel colored Gundamn paint pen-painted each of the "nails"

It looks great,you can then use more stain to highlight there the nails are,and how the wood ould discolor around each one.

I used the pans from the Smithsonian to change the details on the boat from the kit's to represent a true scale model of the Philadelphia. I also used .032 red oak veneer with a .o32 basswood as backing for the oak planks on the hull and deck. All this took about 8 months of steady work. I also added grain deatil to the basswood that I used,so that it looks like oak.

As for the hull planks,I first made the planks to fit the hull in the .032 basswood,then I would glue the oak veneer to the plank,while it was flat and sandwiched between two steel rulers with clamps,to keep it from warping while drying. Then I would trim the oversized oak veneer to the plank outline and fasten it to the hull frames.

Keith

Still would like a simple answer-what is the scale of the Amati new Revenge kit?

Thanks

Keith

What scale is the kit? And should we look for it before 2015?

Keith

Thanks for the links.

They are just a start of what I am looking for. Now to find out what differences there were in buoys from various countries and era's in shapes,rigging of the netting and how they were rigged to anchors.

And differences in military and merchant ships.

Just as it always is-an answer to a question is just a single seed that starts the planting of a field of knowledge in ship model building.

Thanks

Keith

Hi Guys

Trying to find details of anchor buoys used on ships in the 1700's. What were there shapes,sizes,colors and rigging used to attach them to anchors and rigging.

Thanks

Keith

Hi

I have the DJ Parkins PE sets for my Flower Class Corvette build also.

After spending the amount on the PE sets,do yourself a favor by getting a resistance soldering outfit. You will need it with the large brass sections that you will be soldering to. Just using an iron will not work out very well for you. You need the direct area heating that the resistance soldering will provide you.

As to annealing the PE. only anneal what you must have to. It's better to leave the brass as hard as you can,so that it is not easy to bend after you have it in place. Get a good PE bender setup,that will get you past 99% of the bends that you would  need to anneal without one.

I have been working off and on my Corvette for 12 years now. I have about 40 % of it completed. Adding rivets to all of the hull plates took most of the time.

Play around with soldering brass BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT the PE ofr the kit. Become adept at small parts being soldered to large ones and use different melting point solder where you have multiple parts being soldered in a small area. Starting with the largest with the highest melting point first,then reduce the heat on the iron to just melt the next lower melting point solder. Again practice this before doing the kit parts.

You have spent too much on these PE sets to not take your time. Be upset when practicing,not when you are working on the kit PE. I was there before I purchased my resistance soldering unit. I have soldering irons that now just gather dust,while my resistance unit gets the workout.

Keith

Hi Dave

When you want them pulled up tight to the bulkward in the out of action and ready for heavy seas. Saves 4 blocks and makes it easy to produce a very neat rig.

But there will be one's who will want to keel haul you for not doing it as the real rigging.

For those guy's I say-do it as you want,but just look at Dave's rigging,and tell me if you did not know just how it was done,could you realy tell the difference? I would rather do it Dave's way and have great looking rigging.

I just did my Armed Virginis Sloop guns rigging a while back with the guns run out ready to fire. I would have used this way to rig a couple of guns to show the different ways that guns are rigged.

 On my USF Confederacy build in the future will be when I use this way of rigging some of my guns. In 1/64 scale,this will be a great help.

Thanks for passing this rigging technique along to us.

Keith

Hi

Looking to replace my work table light.Need one that is very bright and one that is on an adjustable arm. My table is in a room that I cannot put a large light above it from the ceiling,only on a stand from the table top,or clamp on the edge.

Thanks

Keith