Carrie Price by thibaultron – Lindberg/Pyro – PLASTIC – 1:64 - Small - Skipjack

[captainbob]

There are dredge cable rollers on the rails on both sides of the boat even with the dredge winder.  The rollers protected the sides of the boat as the dredge was being taken in or out.

 

Bob

[Feathermerchant]

Looking at my plans for the Bennett, I can see the rollers (a horizontal one and one at an angle at the aft end of the horizontal one) with a guard below it that the cable would run on. Still think that as the dredge came up the side of the skipjack would get beat up. Have a watercolor of a derelict skipjack showing a beat up side, but that could be just artist interpretation.     

[captainbob]

Maybe this will help.

 

Bob

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Cap'n'Bob

[Feathermerchant]

Cap'n'Bob,

Thanks for the picture and description. Still think the dredge will damage the hull when pulled up on deck. The roller are at the widest breath of the skipjack so the cable should be off the side of the hull, but the dredge is wide and, from what I can see, the only thing that would keep the dredge off the side of the hull would be the man tending the dredge. I checked some pictures I had from the 2010 NRG conference and the tour of St. Michael's. There was a skipjack on the rails and looking from the stern the side rail, where the dredge would come up was badly chewed up, but then the skipjack itself looked like a wreck................. feathermerchant

.

[Mahuna]

in the drawing that Cap'n'Bob included you can see a piece of molding on the side of the hull just below the dredge rollers, called a "guard" that you referred to, on the Willie Bennett plans.  My assumption is that this, combined with the sharp incline of the hull, helped protect the hull from the dredge.  I have a good friend who actually worked on skipjacks (he's still a Chesapeake waterman) and I've sent the question to him.  I'll post his answer when I get it.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Mahuna

[Mahuna]

Here's what my Waterman friend says about the question:  "There was a piece of guard to protect the side. There was also a steel ½ round approximately 1 inch wide by maybe10-15 long nailed at the spot where the chine and bottom met. Yes the updown roller would help keep the dredge off the boat as it was wound in but even more important it helped make the cable last."

 

Hope this answers the question.

 

He also gave me some information on the use of the drudge (his term for it):

 

 "He would either alone or both guys together in one motion would kind of push and throw at the same time roll the dredge over the roller. As the nose of the dredge (and btw it’s really a drudge J ) approached the roller one guy would push the nose downward while still pushing out to get the bag to flip up (see pic). This way the bag does not get caught in the teeth and you get no catch in the drudge, in which case you had a very unhappy captain (it was called throwing her fowl)."

 

[thibaultron]

Frank. Thanks for the great info!!

[Feathermerchant]

Frank, thanks for the information and the picture. .............feathermerchant

[captainbob]

Thanks Frank.  Now we all know.

 

Bob

[dgbot]

I am finding out that the drawing for a 3d printer can be very hard on ones nerves.  I remember when we got our waterjet at work ad the ork our supervisor had to do to learn how to draw for the program. and he was just doing a 2d drawing.  I The home office had an extra CNC lathe for maching plastic ad almost sent it to us.  He almost had a heart attack.

David B

[thibaultron]

As if I had not been slow enough on this log the last month, due to a friends death, and other family emergencies, it will probably be at least a couple weeks until I can get back to working on my model.

 

The other problem I'm having, is that with my expansion of the shop, the heater can no longer keep up, and it has been a high of about 50 F in there. Next month I'm going to install more insulation.

[thibaultron]

Well dang!! I got my boxwood today, but it is not what I wanted. I guess I did not make my order clear. What I need are 3/32 and 1/8 square stock, for the mast and boom. What they sent was a very nice solid chunk of boxwood, that I have no way to cut into the stock I need.

 

I'm going to reorder when I can get a hold of them.

[thibaultron]

As I get older, I must be losing neurons faster than I thought. When I got the wood order, it was wrapped up like the Fort Knox version of a mummy, so I only opened one end.

 

What I thought was a chunk of a solid wood slab, was in fact the board they had mounted the wood strips on to protect them during shipment!

 

Still have not managed to strip all the wrapping off of the shipment.

[Mahuna]

I found a short video from the '50s about oyster harvesting, showing the use of the drudge.  Thought you all might be interested in it.

 

[thibaultron]

Here's another set on dredging, taken in 1991. Thanks for the first link Frank!

 

[thibaultron]

[thibaultron]

Here's a picture of the boxwood square stock for the mast and boom.

 

The wood slab they are mounted on, is what I saw when I opened the end, thus thinking that the slab is what had been sent.

 

The slab itself looks like a nice piece of wood. I wrote them and asked what type of wood it is.

 

I'm going to leave the square stock attached, until I need one. The slab will be good protection, until I can build the wood storage rack.

[Mahuna]

Hi Ron - thanks for sharing the videos, this is my first time seeing the Hettinger winder in use. I've been trying to find good photos or drawings of the power winder (I do have the drawing from the Kathryn HAER set). Would you have any access to drawings, especially measured drawings, of the Hettinger winder?

[thibaultron]

Unfortunately, no. The only drawings I have of a modern winder, are from the Willie Bennett plans.

[thibaultron]

Work on the Carrie Price will resume shortly.

 

I've been adding a room to the interior of my shop. In the past only 1/2 of the building was finished, and I have been slowly expanding into the rest of the 13' x 15' area. It was alright last summer, but I did not have all the insulation in the new section, and I could not keep it warm enough to work in there this winter. While working in the new area, all the stuff that had been stored there was piled up on and around the workbench. Living on a fixed income makes for compromises.

 

I've also been spending time on the drafting needed for my 2D to 3D printed parts tutorial, and recently my desktop died. The laptop I am left with, is barely powerful enough for CADing, slowing that thread down too.

 

I have progressed far enough to move the workbench into the new area, and I should be back on track by the end of the week.

[thibaultron]

Part 28

 

I finally finished the drawings for the dredge frames in 1/32 and 1/64^th! I just sent a sample off for printing. I assume I’ll have to make some changes once the sample comes back. The 1/64^th model is pushing the 3D printing to the limits of Shapeways standards.

 

 

The smaller 1/64^th model, had to have some changes, over what I did for the 1/32^nd one. The horizontal cross braces were too thin for printing (not sufficiently supported), so I printed the two horizontal bars, too be used as stock for adding them, when I build the frames. I’ll have to fabricate the bottom brace from wire, It was far too thin to print, without being far too large proportionally.

 

I still have a couple details to add to the 1/64^th model, but will wait to see how what I have now turns out. I also added a support/sprue at the nose. The two bars run between the outer skid, and the first dredge tooth on that side. I may have to add a support for the nose of the 1/32^nd part. It may help with the printed shape of the part (orientation of the bar to print path). They may lay the part down with the nose on the table for printing, without the support.

 

I ordered the prints today, and should get them back mid April.

 

I’m drawing some detail parts to use for cleats, etc., to see if they can be printed. My hands are a lot shakier now, than they were 40 years ago, so making really small parts is difficult, some times.

 

Now that my shop is somewhat back in order (well at least I can get to the work bench), I can soon start back on the model.

[thibaultron]

Well I had disappointing news from Shapeways, they can't print the dredge frames. I did not understand fully their e-mail, but I think that they can not print wire shaped objects, that small. I'll chat with them tomorrow, and see if I can savage any of it.

[thibaultron]

I contacted Shapeways, and found out the trouble with the dredge frame designs. Their page shows limits of .3mm for walls supported on both ends, and .6mm for those that are hanging in mid air at one end.

 

This applies to square/rectangular shapes only! For round cross sectional parts the limits are .6mm and .8mm respectively.

 

I can redo the 1/32nd part, with work, by increasing the smaller 5/8" scale frame parts to about .8", not bad. I just wish I had known this when I started!

 

For the 1/64th parts, I will have to get creative. I think that if I design the parts to lay flat in sections, with the bottom square, I can do it. I will then have to scrape the flat parts of the sections round, like if I was scraping wooden parts to a shape for molding, or other formed surfaces.

[thibaultron]

Well after looking at the 1/64th scale frame and the requirements for the minimum thicknesses Shapeways requires, I don't know that I can 3D print it. I have two options:

 

1. Print everything with square cross sections, and scrape them to round.

 

2. Print a pattern to be used as a mold for a RTV jig, to hand build one on. I can't just print the jig itself, all their plastics are porice (sp), and thus would absorb any glue I used while building the frame parts. It also does not have the heat capacity, to be used for soldering the parts. The RTV would allow either option. I might try an experiment with using a wax coating to seal the plastic, maybe a couple layers of future floor polish, would do the trick.

 

I'm going to redraw the 1/32nd parts this weekend.

[thibaultron]

Ordered a set of mast clamps I designed, to be 3D printed. I’ll use these to taper/round the mast and boom for the Carrie Price. They hold the stock at a 45 degree angle, so that I can remove the corners, to bring the square stock to octagonal. For this model, I will round the parts from there, and skip the 16 sided step.

 

 

 

The company  sent me an e-mail, that the file passed, and that they are printing them.

 

As you can see, I will have to trim the bottom corner of the inserts to allow me to hold the 1/8 inch square stock (see below the insert holding the stock). The other insert is, of course, used to hold the other side of the stock.

 

I also ordered a small wood vise to use to hold the inserts and stock.

 

[thibaultron]

Part 29

 

Just in case you thought that I have abandoned this build, here is some progress.

 

I have not done anything physical to the model, but I have made some 3D drawings of some of the details.

 

Why the lack of progress?

 

A friend gave me some thick foam board insulation sheets, that I will be using as the base for my model railroad, so I have been concentrating on getting the shop reorganized, the layout leg/book shelves/computer desk/workbench assembly put up, lately. I just got the workbench cleared, so I will be doing more work on the ship soon.

 

Well the news from Shapeways on the Dredge Frames was bad. Because the frame is made of round bar shapes, the tolerances on minimum size are larger than for square shapes. The 1/64^th scale frames are just too thin to print, period. The 1/32^nd scale ones can be printed by increasing the size, they will be a little over scale, but not too bad. Back to square one on these.

 

The new parts I drew were the trailboards, and some rigging fittings.

 

I submitted the trailboards to Shapeways, and they were good, I should have them next week.

 

 

 

I tried to create a 3D eagle head, but it was just too small, so I’m going with just the outline. It’s so small that I don’t think the detail would show anyway. I also had to make the molding boards a bit thicker at the end where the eagle head is. I’ll sand them when I go to install them.

 

I have not submitted the rigging details yet, I’m still having trouble with the Horse Block. This is a special block for the jib traveler. More later.

 

 

Here is a picture of the rigging detail drawing. All the parts except the Horse Block (top, and upper left) pass the initial inspection.

 

At the bottom are braces that go between the hull and the side of the stem, just below the bowsprit (circled in red below). The model had these cast on, but they were warped, and one was broken, so I’m going to use these. I could have fabricated them, but I wanted to print the fittings anyway, so I included them.

 

 

At the top right are cleats, 10” and 21”. The larger cleat is used for tying off the center board lift line.

 

 

 

The larger rings are mast hoops. The fittings just above the braces, on the left, are the bowsprit cap fitting (below), and the mast head fitting (above). Here is a close-up.

 

 

Along the right are cheek blocks, for the lazy jack lines. They attach to the sides of the boom.

 

 

The horse blocks are shown below. I am having a hard time getting them right. I’ll have one configuration pass, then when I add the two larger sizes, all fail. The center sheave also has a distressing habit of disappearing when Shapeways checks it. I need to work on these more. I have three different sizes, so that I can pick the one that I can work with better. Ideally the smallest one (which is scale), should be used, but I may have to use one of the larger ones, just so I can handle it. One of the larger ones may also look better on the model (better detail, or appearance), even if a little large.

 

 

The hole below the center sheave, is drilled diagonally through the block.

 

I used the drawing in the book as a basis, and used the general size on the Bennett drawing to get the dimensions. The Bennett block is shorter, so I matched distance from the bottom of the block to the axle of the center sheave on the Bennett to scale the Carrie Price one. The hole in the strap at the bottom created walls too thin to print, so I will drill it out later.

 

Carrie Price block

 

 

Bennett block

 

 

The present configuration of the part for printing is below. I have to print the strap as a separate part, otherwise it is a projecting wall, and must be twice as thick as the minimum .3mm tolerance.

 

 

I will be using the cleats, cheek blocks and the horse block, at a minimum. I’ll decide about the others when I get the actual parts. I have included several extras of each part, just in case.

 

For those of you who are following my 2D to 3D tutorial, I will soon be adding sections on drawing the horse block.

[thibaultron]

Part 30

 

I finally have a good 3D file for printing the rigging details.

 

I gave up on having the complete sheave in the horse block, and redesigned it with only the lower hole, and the top part grooved like commercial model blocks

 

 

 

 

Here are pictures of the final rigging detail file.

 

 

 

And here is the Shapeways screen shot, all green.

 

[thibaultron]

Haven't abandoned this build, been working on shop. The major renovation is done, and I can start moving stuff back onto shelves. Then modeling can resume.

 

 

I sent out the rigging details for printing, and they came last week. 2 of the 4 bowsprit braces were warped, but the other 2 look useable. I broke my magnifying lamp light bulb, so I can't take pictures right now, nor can I see how well they turned out.

[Richard Lott]

On 7/4/2016 at 8:26 AM, thibaultron said:

Haven't abandoned this build, been working on shop. The major renovation is done, and I can start moving stuff back onto shelves. Then modeling can resume.

 

 

I sent out the rigging details for printing, and they came last week. 2 of the 4 bowsprit braces were warped, but the other 2 look useable. I broke my magnifying lamp light bulb, so I can't take pictures right now, nor can I see how well they turned out.

I have this kit and started working on it over the summer, wife only allows me to work on models when all other projects are done and they are never done, but hoping to get back to it with winter coming on. Your build here is an incredible source of information and inspiring. I look forward to its completion. Thank you

[thibaultron]

Should get back to it next month.