mtaylor Posted December 8, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 8, 2015 This is a pretty off the wall question, but I thought I would ask. I also realize the answer may very well be... "depends". The main stern carvings above the window on a frigate namely. How thick would the wood be typically? The drawings give no indication of this. This is for the "Arms of France" on the Licorne, a French Frigate. Landlubber Mike, Canute and Dimitris71 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted December 9, 2015 Here's the pictures Janos. Both the carving layout and the "on ship" layout although that one is for a different ship. I've got it on scale 6" thick but I'm wondering if that's not too thick. Dimitris71, Canute and avsjerome2003 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiloh Posted December 9, 2015 Share #3 Posted December 9, 2015 The depths of cut in the carving whould have the biggest impact on the choice of wood thickness because it would effect strength. Or it could be a thickness of 6" limited the carving depth to 3 inches to maintain the needed strength. Another consideration might be; was the carving done off the ship and then attached to the structural members. jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted December 9, 2015 Thanks Janos. Shiloh, I've glued the piece to a sacrificial chunk of wood so I can hold it and also give some strength during the process. The spears I'm thinning the thickness down to their width (they come out looking mostly round). But I'm taking off lots of wood all over. When done, I'll soak it in alcohol and remove it from the backing. I guess I'll carry on for now (unless I really cobble it) and go for what looks right. If I do cobble it, I'll go for some 4" (scale) and save some aggrevation. shiloh, Canute and janos 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 10, 2015 Share #5 Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) A bas-relief carving would probably be no more than 3" or 4" thick. Well carved, it gives the illusion of greater depth. Edited December 10, 2015 by druxey mtaylor and janos 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Looks like a consensus is forming ... I'll use the one I'm doing as practice and go for the 4" thick wood for the real deal. The new dental burs give me some really nice control compared to the sanding burs but they are slow. Or maybe it's me. Edited December 10, 2015 by mtaylor Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted December 10, 2015 Janos, I have some European Boxwood from Crown that I'm using for the stern carving, the nameplate on the stern (finished) and the leaves at the catheads. That stuff is a might harder than the pear I was originally going to use. I will probably also use it for the leaves on the quarter gallery drops. janos and Canute 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted December 10, 2015 Will do, Janos. I'm working on the main carving (and probably in over my head ) while letting glue dry on the planking. Canute 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 11, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 11, 2015 Crown supplies Castello Boxwood, not the European variety. However, I find it carves very well. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted December 11, 2015 Ah, but they do, Druxey. http://www.crowntimberyard.com/custom-orders.php Bottom row, next to the redheart. Jason got a pile (maybe a small one, I'm not sure) in and it's nice wood. Very nice. Canute and druxey 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratepete007 Posted December 11, 2015 Share #11 Posted December 11, 2015 Mark, I have not really tried any serious carving before but would like to. In your earlier comment about sacrificial wood as a supporting base for the carving and then removed by soaking in alcohol, what glue would you use ? Pete Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted December 11, 2015 Share #12 Posted December 11, 2015 Look at the center carving on the contemporary model of Winchelsea...might give you some indication. The center carving on this model I think is a little heavy. I will be giving it more depth but maybe 5/64" at most at 1:64 scale and if possibly 1/16" thick if you can do it. avsjerome2003 and Canute 2 Quote Chuck Passaro - MSW Admin Sloop Speedwell - POF scratch Block Island Boat - POF scratch HMS Winchelsea - POB scratch build HM Cutter Cheerful - POB scratch build Royal Barge - POF scratch Medway Longboat- POF Scratch SYREN SHIP MODEL COMPANY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Pete, I use PVA. Chuck, Thanks for that. I'm about ready to attack this carving for real, so based on what everyone says, I'm going to re-cut it from 1/16" material. Edited December 12, 2015 by mtaylor Canute and druxey 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratepete007 Posted December 13, 2015 Share #14 Posted December 13, 2015 Mark, thanks for the advice re PVA glue. I am keen to try the transom carving for the Euromodel 'Derfflinger' so I followed your link to Crown Timber and European Boxwood. Have just asked for a quote to Australia and I suspect the shipping will outweigh the cost of timber !!! Photo is attached. Overall dimensions are 45 x 50 mm. Pete janos, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) That would make a beautiful carving, Pete. Here's the piece I'm focusing on... I've re-cut it on the laser using thinner wood than before. Bas-relief will be applied next. It's some Euro Box from Crown that is now laminated to a piece of basswood so I can handle it. Edited December 13, 2015 by mtaylor piratepete007, avsjerome2003 and Canute 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratepete007 Posted December 13, 2015 Share #16 Posted December 13, 2015 Brian, Thanks for the suggestions. Huon pine I have had some experience with. Easy to carve but a little open grained and soft ? Silky oak I am guessing would be of a much harder texture and close-grained ? Have you (or anybody else reading this) ever used that for fine carving ? Pete Canute 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratepete007 Posted December 14, 2015 Share #17 Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Brian, Thanks for your kind offer and I will keep that in mind ! Janos, I went to your posting on Maritime Carvings and both impressed and bewildered. What great works of art you have created but where do I really start on my little project (above photo) ? The timber I can get and the necessary expertise and experience I can acquire over time BUT where do I start ? Obviously I need a range of basic tools and a text or two to start browsing in for some hints. Can you please give me some suggestions or at the very least give me some links to get me started ? Anything would be appreciated. Pete Edited December 14, 2015 by piratepete007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted December 14, 2015 Pete, This might get you started: http://www.dlumberyard.com/articles.html And then there's Bill Short's book if you really want to jump in with both feet: http://carvingbook.weebly.com/ The Lumberyard link will get you started anyway. As for tools,.. Simplest is x-acto blades and/or scalpels. Power.. dremel carving bits and/or dental burs. I need a magnifier, some people don't. Oh... and a heavy dose of patience, focus, and willingness to start over. An adult beverage after a carving session helps also, I find. Canute, piratepete007, janos and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratepete007 Posted December 14, 2015 Share #19 Posted December 14, 2015 Mark & Janos Thanks for taking the time to reply so quickly. I also heard from Crown Timberyard this morning and the costs are within what I anticipated. Your comments and links much appreciated but pardon my sheer ignorance - what is 'gingerbread decoration' ? I assume that that is where a thin piece is glued on to a backing board ? Pete mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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