French submarine Surcouf and its turret

[alexmd]

Hi all

 

I'm researching about the french submarine Surcouf.

 

It had a peculiar turret with cannons on its main deck that rotated. Here it go a video which shows this turret (the point is almost in the middle of the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQgP8KO8-8

 

I've been looking for dozens of images and plans, I can't find the exact structure of such turret, though.

 

Does anyone know something about this ?

 

My main doubts are the exact form of this plataform (in order to it could rotate) and the structure under it.  The inner structure is no important for me, although I know it from some plans avaliable in Internet.

 

Thanks !

[mtaylor]

Alex,

 

Did you see this?  

[jud]

The training circle would be straight forward but it was a dry turret, that means some special seals at the rotating ring and the elevation slides on the front of the turret as well a having seals around the guns allowing for recoil movement but remain water tight while submerged. The seals on the muzzles looked simple enough except needing a gunner on the hull to open and close them. The schematic shows the hoists and barbette  running almost to the keel with powder and shell magazines low in the hull. Would not be surprised if the recoil from her own guns caused leakage. Interesting concept but keeping her dry must have been a nightmare.

jud

[BANYAN]

What an interesting subject for a model.  I didn't even know she existed and thought the Japanese subs with their planes were unique (wonder where they got there idea??)

 

cheers

 

Pat

[alexmd]

Hi Mark

 

Yes, I saw.  Its author is intended to produce a RC Surcouf.  Thus, to avoid the "nightmare" to deal with the water that Jud refers to, the RC Surcouf has some structures filled instead opened.

 

I've tried to explain in the attached file.  Notice that the part behind the gun turret is opened, just "closed" by the tube which is the fire control sctructure.

 

Besides this, notice that the front part under the gun turred basis seems have a tubular structure (is not filled like in the RC Surcouf).  On the other hand, notice that, by the schema of the Surcouf section, the gun turret has a part under the basis, without tubular structure.

 

Other doubt: the front part of the gun turret basis is circular.  What about the aft part ? In the RC Surcouf is straight.

 

Alex

[alexmd]

Hi Jud

 

You've mentioned a schematic.  Do you have one about the Surcouf ?

 

Alex

[alexmd]

Hi Pat

 

The Hobby Boss has a plastic model of the Surcouf.  The gun turret is not movel, though.  In fact, the gun turret, its basis etc. is all part of the same piece, in the hull and in the main deck.

 

Yeah, the idea is very interesting.  In my research I haven't find the reasons for the Surcouf design yet.  What I know is that, althought all this "good intention", in the practice, the sub was slow under the sea and it was used almost all the time for scout.

 

Alex

[pollex]

Re: Surcouf (Alexmd)

This was a most interesting vessel, which was lost in the Carribean during the war. She must have sailed with the

"Free French", the French seamen who were willing to fight within the Royal Navy, as I don't think she was lost

after "VE Day".  I seem to remember that there were two 8" guns in the turret, although not the cause of her sinking.

Regards, pollex (Calgary)

[NMBROOK]

I immediately thought of this Alex when I saw Marks post http://otwdesigns.com/products/other-navies/french-surcouf/.HoweverI think this is the same model kit.

The Surcouf did go through some changes during her life,most notably the gun director and conning tower.There used to be a manufacturer called John Darnell in the UK that produced hull mouldings and plans for a working model.Many years ago I saw a model built to his plans and there seemed to be more exposed 'scaffolding' for want of a better word,in her construction.

Sorry I can't be more helpful,but photos seem to be thin on the ground.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[mtaylor]

It does appear to be an interesting vessel that tried to be everything... submarine, cruiser, and aircraft carrier.  

 

I did a bit of Googling and since I don't speak or read French, I used Google.. I'm wondering if there's plans in a French museum or even at the shipyard (Cherbourg) where she was built?  

[alexmd]

Hi Mark

 

Yeah, it had an airplane dismounted - a Benson, I think - in its small hangar - in the image I've posted this hangar is shown.

 

Regarding to the plans, I've found them, but they aren't enough to solve my doubts.

 

Alex

[jud]

Hi Jud

 

You've mentioned a schematic.  Do you have one about the Surcouf ?

 

Alex

No, I stopped the video and looked at that one.

jud

[jud]

The drawing you show in post #5 is cleaner. Looks like the gun room is a pressure chamber that if standing alone would be a drag and cause turbulence in the water. Looks like most of the actual gun room was covered with false sheeting as streamlining and to stop any noisy cross-flow around the topside structures. Would expect it to be open to the sea, don't see any drains but if not open to the sea.they would be crushed.

jud

[alexmd]

The drawing you show in post #5 is cleaner. Looks like the gun room is a pressure chamber that if standing alone would be a drag and cause turbulence in the water. Looks like most of the actual gun room was covered with false sheeting as streamlining and to stop any noisy cross-flow around the topside structures. Would expect it to be open to the sea, don't see any drains but if not open to the sea.they would be crushed.

jud

Hmm... interesting Jud... I have to think a little bit about your comment because I've never had seen in this way.

[mtaylor]

Alex,

 

I stumbled across this while looking for something else... I don't know if you saw it:  http://www.aamm.fr/boutique/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=250