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Determining thread size by model scale


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So I am completely new to modelling, restoring a schooner my grandfather built for me.  I have the Jenson book of measured drawings for the Bluenose II, and from that have determined the model is approximately 1/80 scale. Can I use that scale to determine the thickness of the thread for the rigging?

 

The plans indicate the rigging ranges between 1 and 3 1/4 inch thick. Breaking out my calculator and dividing by 80, that would convert to 0.0125 and 0.04 inches respectively. Realistically, I don't think I can cover all the different thicknesses. I was thinking to use two, 0.018 and 0.035. Does this sound reasonable, or am I missing something obvious?

 

Thanks,

 

David

 

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I'm not smart enough to tell you want sizes to use on your model, but you could download the parts list from Model Shipways for their kit to find out what sizes they used, and then re-scale it accordingly.

 

Also, for the small scales we use, it typically looks better visually if you err on the side of smaller, rather than larger rigging line.  When I built my AVS I downsized almost all of the rigging line from what the kit supplied (like .018 down to .015, not huge changes) depending on what sizes were available from Syren where I bought all of my rigging line.  If the kit called for .045 and the only sizes available were .040 or .050, I would go with .040, etc.

 

By using an existing kit of the Bluenose II, and sizing your line from that, and downsizing as needed to get the sizes, I think you would end up with a pretty good approximation.

 

If all else fails, go with what looks good to you, since nobody is going to be measuring your lines and comparing them to the historical plans and figuring out if it's too big or small.  :)

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David:

Make sure the plan uses diameter and not circumference. Often times plans will give circumference while the rigging thread dealer will sell in diameter. Other than that consideration, your calculation is correct. Divide the full size diameter by 80 to get the scale diameter.

 

I am not sure how many different thicknesses are called out on the plan, but you could easily use 4 or more different thicknesses covering the range and it would be fine. A lot depends on how much detail you are going to include in the restored model and how much money you are willing to spend to get that detail. If you have a choice between a larger diameter and a smaller diameter in a given instance, choose the slightly smaller thread. The overall scale effect will be better that way.

 

Russ

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Gunther:
Go to the top of the page, Click on Nautical Research Guild Home Page
then click o Ship Modelling Resources

then Ship Modelers Database

then Rigging and Sails

Scroll down to the last item Masting and Rigging sizes for English Period Warships.

Open up and look at bottom for either standing or running.  There you have the full size and converted to scale size.

 

Good luck 

Tom

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Thank you for the replies. The model is more 'in the style of' rather than an exact replica of the Bluenose, so I'm not too concerned with exact dimensions. Something that is in the ballpark and looks good is fine. The suggestion to err on the smaller size is great, not something I would have thought of. Brian, your suggestion to download the parts list from Model Shipways is good advice, thank you.

 

Cheers,

David

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David,

 

Chappelle in his American Fishing Schooners book gives a list of line sizes for running and standing rigging for several schooners.  There are typically about 10 different circumferences which are more than would be noticeable at your scale.  Also, keep in mind color.  If there are to be wire stays and shrouds these will be different than manila or hemp in color.  Two sizes of standing and perhaps three sizes of running rigging would be a good compromise to using all the sizes found on the real deal.   Wire rigging for the Grampus for example was from 2 1/4 to 4 1/2" circumference.  Running rigging was from 1 1/2" to 4 1/2".    I imagine the Blue Nose will be in the same neighborhood of sizes.

 

I totally agree, err on the side of being too small.   For me, the proper methods and neatness in installing the rigging is far more noticeable than the actual rope size unless it is obviously too small or too large in circumference for a given line.

 

Allan

Edited by allanyed
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The AL Bluenose 2 kit is at 1:75, so it’s reasonably close to your schooner. That kit uses only a few sizes of lines. Most of the standing rigging is 0.5mm (diameter). A couple of exceptions are the deadeye lanyards (they call for 0.25mm) and the ratlines (again, they call for 0.25mm but I think button thread works well here).  Most of the halyards and other running rigging calls for 0.15mm line. It wouldn’t hurt if the main sheet was a bit thicker.

 

The shrouds on the real BN2 were wire rope, so you’ll want to serve the shrouds where they loop around the mast head and also at the deadeyes.

 

If it would be of any help, you are welcome to take a look at the last part of my practicum on building the AL BN2 kit - http://modelboatyard.com/Bluenose2_Articles/Bluenose2-Part-8.pdf

I go into a bit more detail there.

 

Cheers -

John

Edited by jhearl
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Hi John,

 

I looked at your practicum and would like to say that is very nice work that you are sharing with everyone!

 

I noticed that the blocks in the photos look to have metal external stropping  which I have not seen before.  I thought the blocks on BN2 were internally stropped  so am I correct in thinking that's what the kit offers?  

 

Thanks again for sharing your site information.

 

Allan

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Hi John,

 

I looked at your practicum and would like to say that is very nice work that you are sharing with everyone!

 

I noticed that the blocks in the photos look to have metal external stropping  which I have not seen before.  I thought the blocks on BN2 were internally stropped  so am I correct in thinking that's what the kit offers?  

 

Thanks again for sharing your site information.

 

Allan

 

Yes - you are correct - the blocks on the real BN2 are internally stropped. The goal of the practicum was to help novice builders put together a specific kit (and Ships in Scale elected the model, I didn't). About the only option for model-size internally stropped blocks are the pot-metal ones available at Bluejacket and they would add a good bit to the cost of the kit. So I used the blocks that were included with the kit and stropped them the way AL says to - with wire. Rope stropping would not be any more accurate and would certainly be more difficult for many. 

 

On the pinky I'm building currently, I'll be rope stropping blocks from Syren. Those blocks are far superior to the normal kit blocks and rope stropping would be appropriate for a boat of that type.

 

Cheers -

John

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  • 5 weeks later...

I am working on "Old Ironsides" after having been away from the hobby for almost thirty years. I love the rigging of it, which is where I am right now. Although this model looks a bit like she is coming back in for repairs after a battle : - )  I wanted to do more accurate line usage than large, medium, and small. I eventually ended up at the Syren website where they have a  printout available with the sizes of the rigging lines they sell. When you print this out, you will have a picture of nine different rope sizes the you can use to measure what you already have and look at the various sizes to judge for yourself (visually) what you think will work for the function you want to rig. They don't include literal black thread, which is smaller than the .20mm that is their bottom size. I hope this can help a little bit. This is a great hobby...extremely rewarding at every step of the way. 

 

PeteGee

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