Greek Bireme by Robin Lous - FINISHED - Dusek - Scale 1:72 - First wooden ship build

[cog]

You might not need steelers with that size of wood. Put it in boiling water, and you'll be able to bend it quite far

[Robin Lous]

Thanks 

 

When I see trouble on the horizon...I'll throw my hands in the air and stop...and ask you guys what to do next. 

 

Robin

[cog]

Right, that's why you joined this awesome site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As did most of us ....

Edited September 8, 2016 by cog

[Torbogdan]

Don´t forget that wet wood swells a bit. So if it fits perfectly when wet and full of water it might be a bit small when it has dried out.

 

Your build looks great!. I like the wood plugs in your deck. True to scale or being able to see are, for me, two different things. I guess it comes down to if you want the model "scale perfect" or pleasing to the eye from normal viewing distance. A lot of detail cannot be seen if it is in scale and therefore it looks bland and "not real" in a way. If you over scale some details it looks better but is grossly inaccurate. It all depends on what you like.

[Robin Lous]

Yep...I figured that out. Last night I did the upward stern bending of the first 4 planks (2 right, 2 left).

I boiled the end of the strips, did the bending and secured them in a jig (big word for a piece of foamboard, some pieces of wood and a pile of pins). Dried overnight.

 

Unexpected day off today, so I can do the "normal" bending of those planks today. The wood (boxwood I think) seems very user friendly...it bends easily.

I'll use steam and let it dry before I continue Edit: I confiscated the Admiral's steam iron! works great!

 

Because of the surgery on the keel and frames the ship lost some of it's stiffness, so the planks must fit well or the whole thing will warp. At least the first couple of planks.

 

About the wood plugs...you're right. Must find a nice ballance between scale and what looks good.

 

More later today...I hope

 

Robin

Edited September 9, 2016 by Robin Lous

[Robin Lous]

Finished bending my first two planks!

A small step for the most honourable ship building nobles here, but a giant leap for this apprentice 

 

I was afraid of this part of building wooden ships...it really scared me.

But it's not that hard after all. I just hold the planks under the tap and shaped them on the tip of the hot iron.

Marked the frame positions and moved from one to the next...checking the fit along the hull often while doing.

 

I now let them dry and check again before I glue them to the hull.

It's okey when I have to guide them a bit, but no force whatsoever...we'll see.

 

This really is fun guys!

 

To be continued (it's almost a live blog now )

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[cog]

Planking is fun, you see the hull growing under your hands ... and suddenly you've got a ship/boat ...

[Robin Lous]

Okey...stuff happens. I wanted to bend the first plank just a little bit more...just a tiny little bit...."snap"!

"Oh...rats..why oh why...why me?" 

 

Instead of using plank 2...I made 1 again (had to do it anway).

A plank! 

 

Breaking plank 1 was caused by trying to get  that last insane upward curve, so instead of trying the same again I raised the plank.

Will sand off what's above the planked deck later. Advantage of this is not only a less sharp upward curve for this plank, but the next ones will be easier also.

It simply wasn't possible to get the plank flush to the keel. I'll sand this to a nice round stern when I finished all the planks.

 

More soon!

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[cog]

Looking good Robin. We all have had our planking nemesis ... Have you looked at the palnking tutorials at the NRG database? (http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-modeling-articles-and-downloads.php)

Edited September 9, 2016 by cog

[Robin Lous]

Yeah...I have a nice library of PDF files by now. I read or checked most.

 

Much is helpful, but a lot of it is still unclear to me also (or doesn't apply to what I'm doing).

I have so much to learn here 

 

Thanks,

 

Robin

[Robin Lous]

More planks...

 

Worked hard and long hours the last few days, but it's going slow.

It takes me about 3 hours to get a single plank done. Not sure if I'm slow or if this is normal.

Done 6 now and since they're only 3mm wide...that's a whole whopping 1 centimeter on each side 

 

I use Zap-a-gap medium CA for the first and the last...when set I add some UHU Hart glue there also.

For the frames I only use UHU Hart and I don't glue the planks together in between the frames. I hope that's ok?

 

It takes me a long time to shape, bevel and fit the planks. It's an open ship, so I can't add glue or reinforcement/correction strips on the inside.

I try to make the planks fit perfectly...so far so good I think, but when someone sees a problem please tell!

 

More soon....but it takes time.

 

Robin 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[donrobinson]

It's looking fine and will be sweet when done. I always glue the edges of the planks, it helps when it comes time to sand, the planks don't "bounce" and you can get a smoother finish. Great work.

[cog]

Robin,

 

Glue is what you like to work with and the experience you have. I use Titebond Wood Glue and CA. They are sold a.o. at Baptist in Arnhem, but I presume near you (at the sea side) too. Note it is what I prefer. For plastic/brass I use Pattex, for two compound epoxy I am going to try Pattex's too.

 

Look at the planking speed from the size. You have planked 65 cm in real life with some very long, and thick planks. I would be taking a nap after that to recover my strength

[Torbogdan]

And above all, there is no rush! If a plank takes 3 hrs to get done properly it takes 3 hrs. Sooner or later it will speed up as you get more experience but there is no rush. So what if it takes time, unless you have to be finished by a certain date.  It will be finished when it is finished.

 

Very nice build so far! Great work.

[Robin Lous]

Thanks guys.

 

When I finished the planking, I'll make extra "drop in" frames in between the kit frames. 

Still have to figure out where I can place them exactly, because they must not block the oar holes...or hinder the rowers.

 

These frames will be glued to the planks also, so there will be only about 16 to 17mm between plank supporting frames.

I think (guess, hope, pray) that will be enough to prevent the planks from the "bouncing" Don mentioned. And I'll sand very carefully. 

 

I'm not in a hurry, so I'll take all the time it needs. Perhaps it will go quicker when I get the hang of it more, but when not...fine also. 

 

Thanks again!

 

Robin

[cobra1951]

I look at it this way, building models is a fun pastime and the more time that passes the more fun you must be having

[Robin Lous]

Oh yes...I agree, but...I like to see the light at the end of the tunnel at least. 

 

I admire the ships of the line and other huge projects I see here, but I doubt I'll ever go there myself.

3 years or so to finish a ship....pfff. Several months...that's ok for me, but years? I don't see myself building such ships.

 

I really enjoy this and I will build more for sure, but ships within my patience borders.

 

Already made an ambitious list in my head. Another bireme (same kit, but build differently), at least one trieres (Dusek Trireme) and I have plans to scratch build a Mycenaean and a 800-700 BC pentekonter. All 1:72 scale and maybe I do one of those in 1:32 (54mm scale) also.

 

But I finish this one first and I'll see what I do next (likely the Dusek trireme).

 

Ok....planks to do now!

 

Robin

Edited September 11, 2016 by Robin Lous

[Robin Lous]

It's a bit like watching grass grow now....9 planks finished.

I was curious about how the planking looks after sanding, so I sanded one side to see the result.

Also good to check if my planking is ok. and if the bevelling works.

 

Well...I think it looks fine....no gaps.

 

On some points the used CA glue turned dark. I think it picked up colour from the stained frames inside.

This leaves some dark lines in between planks. Annoys me, because it looks like gaps, even though they're not.

I hope that won't show after staining the hull....we'll see.

 

More soon.

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[EJ_L]

It may feel slow but the time invested is paying off as she is looking great!

 

From reading your future plans you are going to have one nice fleet of small ships when you are done. That will be very cool to see!

[cog]

Robin,

 

It depends on the stain you use. Is it stain or paint ... stain you might (probably will) see the dark lines, paint you most probably won't

[Louie da fly]

You're doing a beautiful job with the planking. I'm at about the same stage, and I know how frustrating it can be. But you're making good progress, and it just takes as long as it takes.

 

Keep up the good work. She's taking shape well.

 

Steven 

[Robin Lous]

On 13-9-2016 at 1:18 PM, cog said:

Robin,

 

It depends on the stain you use. Is it stain or paint ... stain you might (probably will) see the dark lines, paint you most probably won't

 

Yes, paint is the "backup plan", but I try to avoid it, even though the Greek ships were often painted with a mix of yellow and red ochre.

The bow and under the waterline they were treated with pine tar to protect the (soft) wood from soaking up the Aegean Sea.

 

I'm thinking about using cherry wood stain for the ochre...several layers will result in a nice medium orange finish, but still able to see the wood.

Only when this will look bad...for whatever reason...I'll fire up my airbrush to hide my failure underneath a layer or two Vallejo acrylic.

 

For the pine tar I'll use ebony wood stain and I presume that will be fine no matter what. Dark enough to hide mistakes, but nicer than paint I think.

 

Since I'm still slaying planking demons...it's a bit too hot to do much at all...I did some paint schemes. Still making up my mind.

Some possibilities. (forgive my graphic skills...I have none!).

 

There several forecastle options. I choose the "planked on the outside variant", because I can paint a larger eyecatching "ships eye" there.

All other options (open frame, frame with wicker, planked on the inside of the frame)...have a smaller eye below the forecastle.

 

Keeps me busy 

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[cog]

Thanks for the information, Robin. It is interesting to learn these things about the properties of Bi/Triremes

[Robin Lous]

probably something like this...

Robin 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[Robin Lous]

Guys...I come from Planet Plastic...when you don't show something new at least once a day...you're MIA and probably dead.

So...it feels a bit strange for me to not post something new daily. 

 

With wood things don't work that way, but I'm not used to that yet.

14 planks done...worked my bum off to get that done...but it feels like I did so little

 

Sigh!

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[cog]

You'll get used to it, Robin. Sometimes it takes days/weeks before you post again

[Robin Lous]

omg! 

 

The thought alone!...unbearable! I'll never start a Vasa, Victory, Vounty or Vutty Vark! (all big ship names start with a V, right?)

 

I'll stick to things with oars 

 

More soon!

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous

[EJ_L]

With the large builds updates can be made regularly but they often just show more of the same thing. More planking, another canon, another gun port lid etc. Since the repetitive parts are insuch high numbers, finishing anytjing worth showing can take much longer. Of course a lot of it too is how much ti.e a person can dedicate to a model. The more time you can devote to building the more updates you will have.

 

Personnaly I try to an update a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Even if it is just a quick written message saying that I am still building just nothing new to show. This week has been that way as life had been in the way but I have logged a few hours on the build.

 

You definitly have a nice advantage with a small ship in that when you sit down to work on it, you have a much better chance in actually getting something finished!

[WackoWolf]

Your being to hard on yourself, so you think it taking to long. Learn that taking your time pays off big, never rush, people will always be here for when you post. Heck if you only do one plank a day, well your one plank closer to being done. When you rush you are more than likely going to make mistake and then you going to have to redo it. Take all the time you need.

[Robin Lous]

Yet again...thanks for the peptalk gents!

 

I slowly get the hang of the planking job....

It's maybe a small ship and considered a starter kit, but I don't think the planking is easy on this one.

Of course it's my first and I have nothing to compare it to, but the hull has an odd shape.

The raised stern and the bulbous bow make it challenging. Most planks need bending in both directions (bow and crook) and some need to be warped (twist). It's a lot of bend...fit...bend...fit...bend...fit, before a plank can go on. Careful bevelling is also needed and some panks are tapered near the bow.

 

I doubt two finished Dusek biremes (not seen many) are planked the same way.

 

Only 2 planks (each side) are oddball (woof! woof!) planks.

Plank 5 needed too much tapering to make it to the bow...it ends halfway the forecastle, but plank 6 runs smoothly underneath and it won't be visible because it will be hidden underneath a wale. (sheer luck!)

And the plank next to the keel. I needed a straight one there to neatly finish the bulbous bow.

 

All other planks run from the stern to the bow...from the top to the keel.

 

Looking forward to sand the whole thing smooth!

 

And I was happy to find thin (0,15mm thick) copper sheet on the internet.

It's for the ram sheating. I already have 0,15 brass sheet, but copper ages (forced) much much nicer...and with some magic it will look like bronze. That's pretty much impossible with brass I think.

 

Getting there! Mind over matter!

 

More soon!

 

Robin

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robin Lous