18th century longboat by michaelpsutton2 - Model Shipways

[michaelpsutton2]

Good afternoon, it is so cool to be 64 years old and still be getting toys for Christmas. In this case the Model Expo 18th Century Longboat kit. I did not really intend to take up a lot of time on a build log that has been done a dozen times but still need a little bit of advise from time to time.

 

I just opened the box a couple of hours ago and already I have questions.

 

1.) There are two identical laser cut keel and two stems, both cut from extremely this stock. There is nothing in the instruction book about this. Should they be glued face to face in order to reach full thickness. The false keel is twice as thick.

 

2.) What is the best glue for the planking? I am intending to use yellow caprenters for the frame because of the slow set up time. I have a "Fair-a frame" to get them straight.

 

3.) I have seen some builds where a long piece is glued across the tops of the frame centers to help stiffen them during the fairing/planking process. I this a good idea?

 

Thanks

Mike

[Chuck]

Those are just extra pieces.....just in case.

 

The glue choice is up to you...whatever is more comfortable for your pace and work habits.

 

Yes glueing those pieces across the bulkheads is a great idea.

[Nirvana]

Good afternoon, it is so cool to be 64 years old and still be getting toys for Christmas. In this case the Model Expo 18th Century Longboat kit. I did not really intend to take up a lot of time on a build log that has been done a dozen times but still need a little bit of advise from time to time.

 

I just opened the box a couple of hours ago and already I have questions.

 

1.) There are two identical laser cut keel and two stems, both cut from extremely this stock. There is nothing in the instruction book about this. Should they be glued face to face in order to reach full thickness. The false keel is twice as thick.

 

Mike, first of all a warm welcome to MSW,

There was enough with space on the plank to generate two items of each, so as well with the rudder. Use only one of each. Best part,if you break a part, you have a spare.

 

2.) What is the best glue for the planking? I am intending to use yellow caprenters for the frame because of the slow set up time. I have a "Fair-a frame" to get them straight.

 

Do not use "fair-a-frame", see other build logs for setup and how to get straight frames. Titebond is widely used, I used CA quite a lot when building my longboat.

 

3.) I have seen some builds where a long piece is glued across the tops of the frame centers to help stiffen them during the fairing/planking process. I this a good idea?

Absolutely, the frames can easily break when fairing if not stiffen.

 

Thanks

Mike

Good luck and welcome to the longboat journey. If you have any questions,ask us and you will be helped.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Nirvana

[Tigersteve]

Mike- welcome. Chuck has designed a great kit. I'm in the middle of it myself. I've been using wood glue. It works great. Just a dot at each frame when doing the planking is enough. Best of luck.

Steve

[michaelpsutton2]

Doesoes the bearding line basically parallel the bottom of the false keel forward of where the scribed line ends ? Or to put it another way is the tapered section the same width all the way along the false keel and up around the stem

[Tigersteve]

That sounds correct. Bob F's log of this build is very well done. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/1465-18th-century-longboat-by-bobf-model-shipways-148-tri-club/?fromsearch=1

Steve

Edited December 28, 2016 by Tigersteve

[michaelpsutton2]

Hi! 

I looked at Bob's build log.  Should I use his rabbit as a good example?  I see how narrow it is on the stem.  

Thanks! 

Mike

[Tigersteve]

Yes. His log is a very good example. If you look at the instructions it shows the same. Here's another build log for you. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/629-18th-century-english-longboat-by-chuck-c1760/?fromsearch=1

Steve

Edited December 28, 2016 by Tigersteve

[michaelpsutton2]

So........this is my first build and to kinda bring up my woodworking skills a bit (did I mention I am primarily a researcher, painter, & illustrator) I have spent every evening since Christmas sanding building and varnishing a "Fair-a Frame". I certainly can do the filler blocks and understand how they would work but just have to ask why? I thought the filler blocks were used by guys who didn't hve ready access to a new, softly glowing "Fair-a Frame".

[michaelpsutton2]

And by the way if I could get mine to come out anything like Tigersteve's or so many others. But I fear my eyes have overplayed my hands.

[Chuck Seiler]

A quick recommendation:  Drill one or two small holes down thru the top of the stem and insert some reinforcing rods.  I have seen some use brass, I used bamboo....after I broke it off.  It is very fragile and prone to breakage.

[Tigersteve]

Mike- thank you for the compliment! This is a very challenging kit. Just take your time with it and check all the logs. I followed Erik W, Mike Stuntflyer, Bob F, and Chuck's of course. The planning and laying out of all the tick marks for the planking is extremely important. There are no filler blocks needed in this build. The fair-a-frame you got should help to set up your bulkheads square. I look forward to your first steps.

Steve

[michaelpsutton2]

I really like the look of the pencil in between the planks to accentuate the seams. Will that work in the scarf joint between the stem and the keel or will it interfere with the adhesive? Also how do you feel about a little satin poly on the flat surfaces before assembly. I want all the parts to look separate.

 

Chuck when you talk about reinforcing the stem, do you mean the stem itself or the joint with the keel?

[Tigersteve]

Pencil for inbetween the planks. You can pencil one edge of each plank. You do not need to mark the stem and keel. That seam will show anyway. I would not poly until planking is done. I did not have to reinforce the stem and keel. I don't think it's necessary. The wood glue makes a strong bond. Everything is prone to breakage. These parts are small. Hope this helps.

Steve

[michaelpsutton2]

Under way with the fair-a-frame! When the frames are fully inserted, I assume they come right down to the rabbet?If anyone out there sees me going wrong please speak up! The pencil tick should be center of frame. Are the center tops of the frames parallel to the keel or do they follow the sheer?

Edited December 31, 2016 by michaelpsutton2

[Tigersteve]

Yes- keep going. Looks good!

Steve

[Chuck]

Just a suggestion....sand off the laser char entirely from the keel pieces.   Before you ad anymore frames.  It will be much more difficult as you move forward.  I know it will b epainted but it will be a muddy color if you dont.

[michaelpsutton2]

Thanks , I am on it!

[michaelpsutton2]

The yellow glue did give a minute to adjust. They are not perfect but I will live with it.

Do I put the bow chocks in before or after I fair the frames?

Edited January 1, 2017 by michaelpsutton2

[Tigersteve]

The instructions said to put them in after. I faired the frames then did some sanding on those two pieces before I glued them in. Then I had to do a little more sanding. The frames look good but if you notice any of them off, you should correct it now. It may affect the shape of the boat. Look at the frames from a couple different angles. Happy New Year!

Steve

[michaelpsutton2]

I am fairing the frames with 320 in my bare hand. Do you recommend a sanding block?

[Cathead]

This is a fun kit that will teach a lot of useful basic skills. It's harder than it looks but not as hard as it seems, and as you note, there sure are a lot of good build logs to draw on. Building this really helped me learn a lot, and I wish you great success. I'll be following along.

 

Personally, I would use a sanding block, something that gives you a solid surface behind the sandpaper. If you try to do it with just the paper, you'll almost inevitably end up rounding off the edge rather than getting a smooth surface. I used a piece of wood that spanned about three frames at once; this also helps ensure that each frame's final angle lines up with its neighbors, ensuring a smoother run for the planks. For the planks that need a lot of fairing, you can probably use a coarser grit to save time at first. More needs to be taken off than you may think at first.

[michaelpsutton2]

So now I think the frames are square and mostly beveled,  might need a little more work where the garboard is going to go.

So I have questions about planking.

 

1.) According to the directions, the sheer is actually a little variable so long as it meets the upper edge of the transom aft, and the upper edge of the fairing blocks foreward ?

 

2.) The first two upper strakes are put on full width. But they need to be bent in two dimensions. for the sheer and also around the ribs. Do you bend them in one direction at a time? The sheer first? And does rewarming them for the second bend undo the first?

 

 

[Cathead]

I'm no expert, but here's the process that worked pretty well for me. You're going to want to explore the planking tutorials given elsewhere on MSW, and some of the especially good build logs for this kit. You'll be edge-bending the planks, meaning bending them in a lateral curve while they are still sitting flat, then also bending them vertically so they wrap around the hull. Personally I think this works best in several steps:

• Soak the plank and gently edge-bend it around a form (like a piece of wood cut to approximately the curve you want). I do this on the edge of my cutting map so I can use clamps to hold the bend in place. Use a soft clamp like a clothespin or plastic clamp, not a sharp-edged one like a metal clamp, or the wetted wood will bear the clamp's imprint. I find that, in hot water, you only need to soak a minute or so. I use a hairdryer to quickly dry and lock the bend in place. Chuck has a tutorial video of him doing this without soaking, just the hairdryer, but I had trouble making that work. Experiment.
• Once you have a dry plank with an edge bend in it, resoak it and bend it around the frames into its final configuration, then clamp it again and let it dry in place, again with a hairdryer if you like. You will want to test-fit it and likely do some sanding/carving to the edge to ensure a nice fit.
• I find that resoaking or warming undoes part of the initial bend but not all; it can work best to over-edge-bend the plank assuming you will lose some of that curve before you're done. I also tended to put the bend a bit farther along the plank than it really needed to be, letting me slide the bended plank along the hull to find the place where the resulting curve best fits the shape it need to be.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first question?

[Tigersteve]

I agree the gradual soaking, bending, drying then repeating worked for me. I had a couple planks with kinks and they showed after the stain so if that happens don't use them and redo unless you are painting below waterline. It really is a learning process and you will figure out what works for you. Bob F shows the method for marking off the sheer from the plans. He also explains the tick strip method which many of us used.

Steve

[michaelpsutton2]

The instructions say at the bottom of page 3 column 2 " You could also make the center of the sheer plank lower if you prefer a more curved sheer'

Edited January 8, 2017 by michaelpsutton2

[michaelpsutton2]

How do I find the planking tutorials?

[Ryland Craze]

Michael,

 

Check out this link for the planking tutorials.

 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

[Tigersteve]

Check out Chuck's planking videos too

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13850-chucks-planking-videos/

 

The curve of the sheer is up to you but you need to leave a little room at the bow for the caprail and also some room at the transom. You'll see that on the plans. I spent the most time on this build on planning and marking off the hull before I started bending planks.

Steve

[Cathead]

Michael,

 

In addition to Ryland and Steve's links, if you go to the MSW main page and scroll down, you'll see a major heading for "Shop notes, techniques, etc" under which are subheading for various aspects of shipbuilding including one for "Building, framing, planking..." Under these subheadings are lots of useful threads in which people asked questions or offered advice. There are also especially useful threads pinned to the top of those pages, which is where you'll find some planking tutorials.

 

As for the sheer, I understand your question now, and Steve is right. You can more or less set how deep you want the sheer to drop amidships, it can be a gentle curve or a fairly deep swoop, but you need to get it right at bow and stern.