HMS Victory by Zarkon - Constructo - Scale 1:94

[Zarkon]

Finally! After 2 years, I have enough time to start a new kit!  I still consider myself new to this hobby so I will be looking up a lot of info while building! I know this kit will take me a long while to make, but I will do my best to post on a regular basis! 

 

I will be reading the instructions and other guides and tips before I start. I noticed that the keel isn't completely straight. I wonder if there is a way to help straighten it.

 

 Lastly, I noticed that there are a lot of posts here about a building board and a keel clamp.  How important are these?  Hmm time for some research!

 

- Jeff

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff

Welcome to MSW.

My advice.. for what's it's worth.. buy a smaller kit with a single mast and some rigging. Get your skill's up to scratch with the small kit and then start the Victory. 

Yeah try and straightening the Keel buy slightly over bending it with weights in the centre. And check it after a few days for straightness.

Then redo if nessary.

Keel clamps are OK for some models. I have never used them. I make my own business cutting a slot in some spare timber. Not sure you can use a keel clamps on this kit in the early stages of construction. Keel is added after planking ?. Not sure.

There are a few build logs for the Constructo victory. Suggest you find one and have a read through. https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6684-hms-victory-by-paul0367-constructo-scale-1-94-first-wooden-ship-build/&

Is a nice build.

Will follow you along with this one.

Antony

 

 

[Tallshiptragic]

Hi Jeff,

 

Victory is an ambitious build very it's a first kit or a model for an experienced modeler. 

 

I can can relate to building something smaller first, however there is little difference in the actual building. Most modelers will build a smaller vessel as they get to see a finished result much sooner than that of a three decker, however as long as you're patient any modeler can accomplish marvelous results with more complex kits. Just keep asking for advice and take your time with anything that concerns you. 

 

Now a building board is very useful for the initial construction to help keep the false keel and frames at straight angles to get a true shape of the hull. Now if your keel in the kit is meant to be added after planking, make sure when you make up the building board that there are slots for the frames to sit in. Now the keel that isn't straight are you meaning the ply false keel for the frames or a walnut finishing piece that mounts on the ply false keel? Soaking or steaming then placing under weights can work however there can be some shrinkage. Personally I'd just replace the piece and cut a new one that is true using the plans.

[Fright]

Best of luck on your adventure(s)!!! 

[Zarkon]

Thank you guys for the advice!  About the false keel, I have contacted them to see if I can get a replacement ply sheet.  I hope to hear back from them soon.

 

I do understand that this is a very ambitious kit, but I am willing to really take my time and make sure I'm doing everything to the best of my ability.

 

After quite a while on these forums, I decided not to get a keel clamp.  There were many good designs for a building board here in this forum! I have a lowes really close to my house,  so I will be making one to help with placing the framed on the false keel.

 

About the walnut finishing piece that attaches to the false keel,  the instructions say to place it after planking. But I noticed that quite a few builds here show it being glued on before planking. My question is, is there a reason to do it before? I did notice though that the prefabricated piece does not 100% line up with the keel and is thinner than what is on the plans:

There is some open space on the bottom and the top middle. I'm more worried about the bottom because there is a 1.1mm gap between the false keel and the finishing piece.

 

- Jeff

 

[Dan Vadas]

Quote

There is some open space on the bottom and the top middle. I'm more worried about the bottom because there is a 1.1mm gap between the false keel and the finishing piece.

Don't stress about that gap Jeff. My guess is that the front part of the keel (called the "Knee of the Head") will go OVER the planking - the planking will bring the line further forward, closing the gap down. Everything will still need fairing, so the shape is going to change dramatically . Check which piece (if any) matches the plans and sand one or the other or both to match the plans.

 

The Knee is thinner because the "false" keel and bulkheads are not to scale. They are only there as a support for the planking and aren't visible later on. Is the knee plywood or a solid piece of timber, because it tapers slightly in various directions which can be hard to do with ply as you may cut through the upper layers. See the post in THIS LINK for an explanation of the above.

 

Quote

About the walnut finishing piece that attaches to the false keel,  the instructions say to place it after planking. But I noticed that quite a few builds here show it being glued on before planking. My question is, is there a reason to do it before?

It depends on your level of expertise with planking. Experienced builders will cut a "Rabbet" into the keel in which to lay the ends of the planks. Novice plankers may find it easier to plank first and then attach the keel as it hides a "multitude of sins" .

[Steve 12345]

Best of luck with your victory it is an ambitious build but is certainly achievable,my own first build was also a victory I am now on my third build and my only regret now is I've learnt so much I wish I would have held off on the big kit and be building it now using the techniques I've now learned,I'm still happy with my victory and very proud of it as a first build these kits can be pretty expensive and I think that helped being a first build I was very dertermined to finish and not waste all that money ,your in for a long haul with this one and it will be interesting to follow along 

 

cheers

steve

[Zarkon]

Thank you Steve! I'm happy to hear of your success with this model!

 

So I emailed Constructo's distributor about a replacement ply sheet for the false keel and they told me they don't deal with replacement parts.  So i need to email Constructo directly -_-.  So I used the email they told me to use, and I haven't heard back. This was about 3 days ago. So, I said heck with it and will do what Tallshiptragic said, which was to build my own false keel using the plans provided.  So, here is my new false Keel!

 

Haha!  I actually found the right width board (6mm) and the sheet i bought was a LOT more straight than then one that came with the kit.  Time to get to it!

 

Jeff

[Tallshiptragic]

Nice work Jeff! Sometimes it's just easier to bite the bullet  and really, a sheet of plywood doesn't cost that much extra 

[Zarkon]

Well, this is lovely....

 

The frame split in two and I can't get the frame piece out and it's not in all the way. Sigh.  Guess it's back to square one... again.

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

Just glue it back together with PVA, clamp it and let it dry. It's no big deal.

 

  Danny

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Thumbs on each side of the keel fingers on the frame and force it out. Then as Danny said. Just glue it and clamp it flat.

All the best  Antony.

[Zarkon]

Thanks for the advice!

 

Unfortunately, (I'm embarrassed about it) I can't seem to glue 2 pieces of wood together! 

 

But oh well. It's my fault, not the kit.  I contacted Constructo about sending some replacement ply sheets, and they finally responded.  They had 2 options, free 15-30 day shipping of ~$50 or FedEx 2-5 day shipping. I chose the free shipping.

 

 They then emailed me back saying it's too difficult to ship and they want me to wire them the money for FedEx. I was a little confused because I thought they would have had a more formal way to ship replacement parts instead of wireing them money. Hmm. I wonder if this is normal?

 

Jeff 

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

47 minutes ago, Zarkon said:

Unfortunately, (I'm embarrassed about it) I can't seem to glue 2 pieces of wood together! 

Oh dear, Jeff. You ARE in trouble then . Learning how to glue two pieces of wood together is a MUST in this game .

 

Seriously though, what kinds of glue have you been using? There are different techniques for different glues to get them to bond successfully. In the case of your split bulkhead, Carpenter's White Glue (PVA) would be the best option, it will need clamping and allowing to dry for a minimum of 5 to 6 hours.

 

BTW - you don't need to pull the bulkhead back off to glue it - just glue and clamp the split with the bulkhead still attached.

 

  Danny

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Good advice from Dan above.

If the is not in the correct position then remove it and sand the slots until late you get a easy fit.

Removing the ash from the joints helps with the bonding.

 

Regards Antony.

[Dan Vadas]

Jeff, I didn't look at your last pic properly, or for that matter read all the post (sorry ). Yes, the frame has to come out again to get it to sit down all the way. Don't panic, there is an easy solution .

 

Buy a bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol (aka Rubbing Alcohol) from a Drugstore or Supermarket. Brush it on both sides of the bulkhead to soften the glue. The stuff evaporates rather quickly, so you will have to apply it several times before it will start to work. You can also soak a paper towel or small cloth in it and place it in the corners between the bulkhead and keel. To slow down the evaporation even more, cover the cloth or towel in Cling Wrap as tightly as you can. Keep "working" the bulkhead from side to side if you can as the glue starts to soften. Eventually you will be able to pull it out.

 

When it's out clean up the gunky mess that is all that is left of the glue by scraping it off. Then re-adjust the slots in the bulkhead and/or keel until you can get the bulkhead to sit down properly. Then glue it back in.

 

Next time, check for a good fit (an easy slide in/out, not TOO tight) BEFORE reaching for the glue.

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

Dan,

 

Thanks again for your advice! I am tied up until the weekend, but i will use your advice to get the bulkhead out.  

 

Every model is a challenge (especially when you "accidentally" make it more challenging for yourself) but i will persist and not let my bad first step get me down. I will fix it and move on!

[Dan Vadas]

1 hour ago, Zarkon said:

Every model is a challenge (especially when you "accidentally" make it more challenging for yourself) but i will persist and not let my bad first step get me down. I will fix it and move on!

G'day mate . Have you seen THIS thread? I agree with what you said above . The second post in the thread applies particularly to your own problem with the bulkhead.

 

  Danny

[AntonyUK]

H Jeff.

 

5 hours ago, Zarkon said:

Every model is a challenge (especially when you "accidentally" make it more challenging for yourself) but i will persist and not let my bad first step get me down. I will fix it and move on!

It's the best way to learn by making errors and finding the fix.

 

Antony.

[Zarkon]

On 6/7/2017 at 2:33 AM, Dan Vad said:

Jeff, I didn't look at your last pic properly, or for that matter read all the post (sorry ). Yes, the frame has to come out again to get it to sit down all the way. Don't panic, there is an easy solution .

 

Buy a bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol (aka Rubbing Alcohol) from a Drugstore or Supermarket. Brush it on both sides of the bulkhead to soften the glue. The stuff evaporates rather quickly, so you will have to apply it several times before it will start to work. You can also soak a paper towel or small cloth in it and place it in the corners between the bulkhead and keel. To slow down the evaporation even more, cover the cloth or towel in Cling Wrap as tightly as you can. Keep "working" the bulkhead from side to side if you can as the glue starts to soften. Eventually you will be able to pull it out.

 

When it's out clean up the gunky mess that is all that is left of the glue by scraping it off. Then re-adjust the slots in the bulkhead and/or keel until you can get the bulkhead to sit down properly. Then glue it back in.

 

Next time, check for a good fit (an easy slide in/out, not TOO tight) BEFORE reaching for the glue.

 

  Danny

Thanks Dan!  I got some rubbing alcohol and began to take out the bulkhead.

 

Evetunally it came out!

 

Hurray!!! 

 

I then took a closer inspection of the other two and noticed that i could have placed one of them better, so i took that one out too.

 

I have since sanded down the false keel and filed the bulkheads down enough now to where they go in with a little resistance but not much.  I have also took care to read the planking guides Here and measured and filed down the false keel. Its still not done yet, but finally im making progress! As a side note, i havent glued anything since i took the bulkheads out! 

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

Excellent work Jeff, I'm glad it all turned out OK .

 

That looks like pretty good Isopropyl - 70%. My usual one is only 50% but it still does the job. For really stubborn glue I have a bottle of 100% which I bought from a Pharmacy ($15.00 for 100ml ).

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

Yay! After chasing around my 2 year old for a week, i have finally glued all the bulkheads to the false keel AND straightend it to boot!

 

Initially I tried to bend back the false keel to be straight after reading a thread on how to do it on this site:

 

First, damp the concave edge of the bent keel and clamp it to a flat surface:

Then let it sit overnight.  The next day, I unclamped it and it worked!

BUT 30 minutes later, the false keel started to return back to its original shape.

 

So that technique was a bust.

 

 To actually fix it, I first read the thread that Dan mentioned earlier. Then i glued on the bulkheads with the help of a few levels.   Third, I figued out where the bends were, and between which bulkheads.  I then measured the distance between the bulkheads that needed to be straightened and cut out some plywood blocks to fit between the bulkheads.  With each block, I carefully fit it between the bulckheads and checked the curvature of the keel AT THAT POINT.  Sanding the ply block as needed to get the keel to straighten. Before and after glueing each piece, I checked and double checked the curvature of the false keel.  Proceeding slowly, paying attention to each block and bend.  In the end, i had to place 4 plywood blocks as shown here:

Here is what the false keel looks like now:

Its a LOT straighter.

 

WOW! Step Number 1 took a while,  but I finally got it done!

 

Currently, I'm finishing up glueing the mast blocks onto the keel.

 

Jeff

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

Good work Jeff, I'm glad it came out OK. If you had OVER-bent the keel after damping it to get the stress out of the bend it MAY have worked too, but at least this way you know it's going to be right.

 

  Danny

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Nice work on the on the removal of the bulkhead. ( The lesson  here is to dry fit everything before applying any glue).

You could always cut machine cut some small blocks to fit between each bulkhead that clamps to the keel.(the blocks would need to be cut dead Square or it will make the keel curve even more).

Or cuting a grouve for the keel in plank of spare timber that is flat. You would also need to cut oversize grooves for each bulkheads. 

 

Regards Antony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zarkon]

Its been a little while since I posted, but I have been making small progress!  I usually have about 30 min to an hour per day on average to work on the ship.

I painted and glued on the strip on both sides that will hold the lowest level of guns.  I saw from another build log of this kit that these strips might be too far back and ply may need to be glued to it to extend the guns to the correct length.  I will be measuring each gun port before I start to plank the hull to make sure they will protrude at the correct length.

 

Next, i have been planking the lowest level of decking.  The decking is really thin (0.5mm thick) so i tried to draw the lines on the first small section. It looks like this:

I thought it looked okay, but i also saw others here use black artist papet instead. I then bought some acid free black artist paper.  Here is what it looks like:

As you can see, i need to shave off the excess paper, but i think it does look better.  My wife saw what i was doing and said, "Geeze! You must love punishing yourself!" Haha!  

 

As you can see, I had to fill in a small middle section. I started in the middle and worked outward, so I feel I have learned as i went and got better at it so the paper would glue correctly and not come up when shaving down the excess paper.  If anyone has any tips for this technique,  i would be very appreciative!

 

Anyway, i hope to send more updates soon!  Thanks for reading!

 

Jeff

[Zarkon]

So i finished the second lower deck planking using the black paper. Here is a side by side compairing using a pencile, and using the paper:

Wow! Quite the difference! I have a little brushing up to do with the paper, and they  both aren't varniahed yet.  I do think I like the look of the paper more.  It takes about 3 times the effort and time to do it, but i like the results a lot better.  This is my first attempt at this technique, and I learned a bit doing it. So the next deck planking section should look better.

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

Jeff, there's a better way that comes out the same as using the black paper, but with the ease of using the pencil. I use one of these pens - note the "Archival Ink" - they don't bleed into timber like a normal felt pen and are acid free. They are made by Pigma and are available from Art Supplies stores or on-line. A tip - get the "Brush" type and use the SIDE of the tip to apply the ink :

Check out the deck planking on one of my models done with the pen.

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

Dan,

 

Thank you for the advice! It seems my local arts supply store carries these. I will pick it up this weekend and try it out! Im always up for learning new techniques!

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

Great, Jeff . One last tip with using the pen - always use it from the BOTTOM edge of the plank (before you glue it on) in case you slip and leave a black mark on the top. It dries almost instantly and is a little difficult to remove although any small slip-ups will disappear when you sand the whole deck.

 

You only need to do ONE edge of each plank, that saves using too much of the pen which isn't cheap - about twice the price of "normal" felt-tip pens.

 

Oh yeah, and don't forget to do the Butt Joins as well .

 

  Danny

[leginseel]

Hi Jeff, just come across your log.  Brave man tackling Victory as a first build but all the very best.

I am taking on a Constructo Bounty as my first build and have found that I've needed to modify quite a lot of the kit or scratch build some parts.  My best friend is a book I bought by John MacKay on the Anatomy of a Ship - The Bounty which has put me right on many occasions.  He has also written one for the Victory and I strongly recommend that you try and get hold of one.

Good luck with your build and I look forward to future posts.

Cheers

Nigel