HMS Victory by Zarkon - Constructo - Scale 1:94

[Zarkon]

On 6/30/2017 at 6:38 AM, leginseel said:

Hi Jeff, just come across your log.  Brave man tackling Victory as a first build but all the very best.

I am taking on a Constructo Bounty as my first build and have found that I've needed to modify quite a lot of the kit or scratch build some parts.  My best friend is a book I bought by John MacKay on the Anatomy of a Ship - The Bounty which has put me right on many occasions.  He has also written one for the Victory and I strongly recommend that you try and get hold of one.

Good luck with your build and I look forward to future posts.

Cheers

Nigel

Nigel,

 

I wish you great luck on your first model! I'm glad that you have found that book helpful. I saw that the Victory book was available on Amazon, so I ordered it! I cant wait to get my nose in it on monday!

 

Best of luck on your build!

Jeff

[Zarkon]

I have sanded down the 3 sections and have a pic of what all 3 techniques look like:

Top left is pencile, top right uses paper,

bottom is using the art pen brush that Dan recommended. 

 

I have NOT varnished yet (no time today) but here are my first impressions.

 

I definitely like both the paper and the pen. I like the width uniformity that I could get using the paper, but I also liked how much easier it was to use the pen brush.  Since this was my first time using both techniques, I am fully aware that my skills do need to develope more.  They both created very dark easlly viewable lines too.

 

I think, personally, I get better results using the paper. The pen is easy to use and requires about 2-3 times less work, but i feel, with my skill level, I cant get the uniformity that Dan shows in his posts of using it.

 

I will continue to practice with the pen because I know i can get better results, just need more practice!

 

The last thing is that for these sections of planking, the biggest one in the pic above is 100% covered up by the next deck. haha! So the joke is on me! But I got to try out using the pen and found it enjoyable.

 

Jeff

[leginseel]

Hi Jeff, why not practice with the pen on the lower decks so it will be spot on when you get up top.

[Dan Vadas]

On 02/07/2017 at 0:17 PM, Zarkon said:

I cant get the uniformity that Dan shows in his posts of using it.

Jeff, I'd say the main reason they aren't "uniform" is because the edges of your timber aren't straight. Compared to the timber I use a lot of Kit planking strips aren't cut very well, indeed some are actually die-cut which makes for rather rough edges.

 

I suggest you sand the edges of all your strips before using them. This isn't as difficult as it seems. There are basically two ways of doing it :

 

     1. Stack about 6 or 8 strips together, tape the ends tightly together, and then sand them all at once. If you make a stack that's about the same as the width of a plank it'll be easy to control without the plank flopping around. Instead of taping you could glue them together for 5mm on each end if that makes it easier.

 

    2. Make yourself a jig. You'll need a piece of ply or MDF about 6 inches long and two pieces of square slightly smaller than the width of your planks. Glue the two square strips to the MDF/ply base the thickness of a plank apart. Then you can slip a plank into the gap and sand away . Use a sanding block or stick with 150 grit paper.

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

10 hours ago, leginseel said:

Hi Jeff, why not practice with the pen on the lower decks so it will be spot on when you get up top.

Thats actually what I'm doing . I will re make the small section I did using the pencile. But this time I will create a jig like Dan mentioned and see how they turn out.

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Jeff 

[Zarkon]

Finally some updates!

 

I finished the lowest deck planks and installed them. None of them are really very visible at all so it was the perfect test bed for me to figure out how I want to produce the next deck of planking.  I also saw in the plans that a lot later, you need to drill out the bowsprit. I didnt like the fact that I would have to drill at an angle, through my varnished decking. Yuck! So, I decided to do that now.

 

I do not have a drill press, so I made a small jig to temporarily glue onto the ship to guide my drill to the correct angle for thr bowsprit. 

I then drilled the hole.  Afterwards, i cut out the hole that the bowsprit will pass through in the deck piece and glued it to the ship. I will plank this section later.

I test fitted the bowsprit into position and made sure it was straight and at the correct angle when installed later.

 

I decided not to plank this portion right now even though the instructions say to. This is because I still need to sand the hull down in a few steps to get ready to plank the hull, and I didn't want to sand it and risk scratching the front deck planking.

 

Jeff

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Nice progress. Nice to see that you test fit everything that can be test fitted then removed for placement later on.

No advice from me..You are making a First class build 😀

 

Regards Antony.

[leginseel]

Looking great Jeff and as Anthony says test fitting (many times) is always a good plan.  Take care and look forward to future logs.

 

[Zarkon]

Thank you guys for the kind words! It really helps me want to do my very best!

 

I'm going to start planking the next deck starting today. Since most all of my waking hours are dedicated to either work or spending time with my son, it will take a bit of time.

 

I'll keep updating as I progress!

 

Jeff

[Zarkon]

Finally, a few updates!  Been super busy with work with little time for Victory.

 

I tried glueing the second deck piece on then I started to plank. I hated how it was looking:

Not only that, but the base deck piece was warped and I couldnt seem to straighten it out. Yuck....

 

So, I made the executive  decided to start all the way over again. I ripped up ALL of it, including the warpped base deck piece and removed as much glue as I could. This was super demoralizing for me because that was about a weeks worth of work for me. But I just couldn't live with myself if it looked that bad so it was better to try again.

 

I then measured the height of the base deck piece and the thin deck planks. 2.5mm total.  Then, I rummaged around in another kit I got but not built and I actually found 50 strips of very nice 5mm x 2.5mm basswood!  It was the correct width and height.

 

So, I started to use the strips really slowly.

So i came across where the mast sticks out. Since i didnt have thr pre cut sheet anymore, I utilized the plans and some angle maths to determine the angle and where to place it. So I drilled the mast hole and planked the hole very carefully.

The mast is straight as I took care with its measurements.

 

I'm still at it, planking slowly but surely.  It will need a small bit of sanding too. But I personnaly like this look better than the thin strips, so I'm having a good time putting this deck together.  Thanks Dan for the advice about the black pen. Its working out really well!

[Dan Vadas]

44 minutes ago, Zarkon said:

This was super demoralizing for me because that was about a weeks worth of work for me. But I just couldn't live with myself if it looked that bad so it was better to try again

Just think how demoralising it would have been after you'd almost finished the model and THEN decided you didn't like it. Much better to bite the bullet and fix it before going too much further .

 

The new planking looks a LOT better. Keep up the good work (and good attitude ).

 

  Danny

[leginseel]

Hi Jeff I really feel for you but you've learnt a good lesson and as Dan says you'll be much happier in the long run. Give your self a pat on the back for recovering superbly. 

[Zarkon]

I have definetly learned quite a bit already with this kit! Thanks guys for all yout help and comments!

 

Jeff

[S.Coleman]

You only build it once. Then it's on display forever. Best to fix up as you go. Looking great by the way.  Nice deck planking you have going on.

[Zarkon]

On 7/28/2017 at 0:01 PM, S.Coleman said:

You only build it once. Then it's on display forever. Best to fix up as you go. Looking great by the way.  Nice deck planking you have going on.

 

Thanks a lot!  Its taking a lot longer to plank this way for me, but I think its worth it.

 

Here's what I have finished so far

Whew! This is my first time planking so I am actually learning a lot doing it this way. I decided to plank like this the other decks too so they are consistant. I know the next decks I plank should benifit from my learning on this one.

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

Nice work Jeff, but a few tips on deck planking if I may.

 

Deck planks always have their butt joins on a Deck Beam. In the "real thing" these are usually spaced about 3 to 4 feet apart, with a couple of narrower Carlings between them. Check the pics in THIS LINK. The "Beams" in most kits are usually much further apart than in "real life" as they are only meant as supports for ply decks, not to simulate reality.

 

Full planks range in length from about 20 feet to 30 feet, depending on what was available. Planks usually were laid in full lengths between hatches, unless they were more than 30 feet apart. Short lengths less than about 6 to 8 feet were avoided if a full plank would fit.

 

That's just something to keep in mind for future work - I wouldn't start over again on this deck for such a minor detail .

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

On 7/30/2017 at 2:51 PM, Dan Vad said:

Nice work Jeff, but a few tips on deck planking if I may.

 

Deck planks always have their butt joins on a Deck Beam. In the "real thing" these are usually spaced about 3 to 4 feet apart, with a couple of narrower Carlings between them. Check the pics in THIS LINK. The "Beams" in most kits are usually much further apart than in "real life" as they are only meant as supports for ply decks, not to simulate reality.

 

Full planks range in length from about 20 feet to 30 feet, depending on what was available. Planks usually were laid in full lengths between hatches, unless they were more than 30 feet apart. Short lengths less than about 6 to 8 feet were avoided if a full plank would fit.

 

That's just something to keep in mind for future work - I wouldn't start over again on this deck for such a minor detail .

 

  Danny

Thanks Dan. I think I understand what you are saying. I'll be tearing up the deck and starting.. just kidding!  I will take that into consideration during the next deck planking. 

 

I really do appreciate your advice and critisism as it will just make my modeling better.  I looked at your pics and have a question. I noticed that some of your deck planking is curved. Im curiois why that is?

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

28 minutes ago, Zarkon said:

I looked at your pics and have a question. I noticed that some of your deck planking is curved. Im curiois why that is?

Because, unlike most Kits, this is the way it really was done.

 

Kits are fairly limited in how they present details like this. It would mean they have to add wider stock which can be cut into curved planks, thereby sending up the cost. The dollar rules I'm afraid .

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

I found some time to work on the deck planking.  Its sure taking a while, but I'm taking my time.  I am not quite done yet though.  I have a few more rows to plank, add the treenails, and sand/varnish it.  But I am just happy to have more done on it!

 

 

Jeff

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Looking good. 

Taking your time and thinking things through is a really nice thing to do. 

And thanks to Dan for recommending them pens. Got some myself and they work a treat with no bleeding.  

 

Regards Antony.

[Zarkon]

 I finished planking the deck! I also sanded and drew the treenails onto the boards. I think there is a better way to make the treenails though...

After taking this pic, I noticed on the right side, that a few boards needed more sanding. So I sanded it down.

 

I noticed in the instructions on this deck, you don't actually plank the inside of the hull. I wanted to see if that was noticeable so I cut out the next deck piece and placed it on.

 As you can see, its easy to see the inside part of the hull where the cannons will be placed. Even with the model finished, you will be able to see it. Of ALL the pictures (100+) in the instructions,  they meticulously DON'T show a pic from this angle. So for me, I will plank the inside where the cannons are located.

 

So, (I know this is early) I wanted to see where the cannons would be located.  After reading Paul063's build log of the same kit, he said to place the gunports early and line them up to minimize the gun ports running into bulkheads.  Yikes! That would stink since there are so many guns! So I took some wax paper and tapped it across the plans with the gunports and drew them and other things onto the paper.

 

I then placed the wax paper ontop of the bulkhead plans:

 

This is going to be super helpful when placeing the gunports!  I see there will be a few that will overlap the bulkheads, but if I'm careful, I can mitigate others so they will miss them. 

 

I wanted to continue, but it was getting too late and I wanted another day to make sure I like the look of the deck before varnishing it. Also want more time to find a better way to make the treenails.

 

Jeff

Edited August 8, 2017 by Zarkon
Spelling erroe

[leginseel]

It's a really difficult build Jeff and by the look of it your thinking process is correct but as I've found with Constructo kits there are gaps and I'm sure this won't be the last. I had the privilege of visiting the Victory a couple of weeks ago and it humbles you as to how those shipwrights fitted everything in as those gundecks are so crowded!!  Keep up the good work as you're doing brilliantly. 

[Dan Vadas]

8 hours ago, Zarkon said:

Also want more time to find a better way to make the treenails.

In this scale the best method to do the treenails is the one you're using. Real (bamboo) treenails will be only 0.22mm in diameter, not impossible but damn hard to do and the result wouldn't be any better anyway. BTW - if you want to be really accurate you will need to do about 5 or 6 times as many as you have already done - as I mentioned several posts ago there are a lot more beams in the "real thing" than the kit bulkheads which are only on about every 4th or 5th "real" beam.

 

My 1:48 scale model of the 16-gun Sloop HMS Vulture had about 12,500 0.5mm bamboo treenails in the hull and decks, and it is less than half the size of Victory . I didn't keep track of how long it took me to do them, as I did the majority of them as I was building and not all in one go, but I'd estimate at least 2 weeks if I did them all at once. The choice is up to you.

 

  Danny

[maaaslo]

Regarding ripping your work appart... i once purchased something off an ebay seller who was building one like you.

well, as its a long story i will cut it weeeell short. It was his second build, as the first one he said was badly warped, planks wouldnt sit flush with the frame, decks would be coming off, and this and that... he decided to not glue the frame this time to give him chance to correctly align the frames in the keel. I didnt know what he meant by all that, i had to ask. Well, he didnt fair the frames, the decks would be warped as he didnt check and fit the slots in the part... and so on. He was basically expecting it to work like lego, maybe plastic model. Should have see his face when i told him his approach is completly wrong... i tried to direct him to our forum, but he seemed very stubborn person. Im afraid he was up for a second fail... and maybe a third one too as he apparently promised his in law be would build it for him.

so the moral of the story would be: check, double check, tripple check and if not happy rip appart. Exactly what you are doing so damn good.

well done job

Edited August 8, 2017 by maaaslo

[Dan Vadas]

18 hours ago, Zarkon said:

This is going to be super helpful when placeing the gunports!

Only for SOME of them Jeff. Be aware that the side elevation plan is a FLAT projection, and doesn't allow for the curvature of the hull. The foremost and aftmost ports will be further apart than the plan shows. Check that with the deck plan (if there is one) and make adjustments to the positions of the outer ports.

 

The best way to get the heights of the ports correct is to build one gun now and check that it will actually fit into the centre of the port. In most kits that I've done in the past the guns are either too high or too low to fit the ports properly. Don't forget that the ports will have to follow the "sheer of the deck" - if the decks don't coincide you will have to make adjustments to either the ports or the guns.

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

On 8/8/2017 at 6:07 AM, Dan Vad said:

In this scale the best method to do the treenails is the one you're using. Real (bamboo) treenails will be only 0.22mm in diameter, not impossible but damn hard to do and the result wouldn't be any better anyway. BTW - if you want to be really accurate you will need to do about 5 or 6 times as many as you have already done - as I mentioned several posts ago there are a lot more beams in the "real thing" than the kit bulkheads which are only on about every 4th or 5th "real" beam.

 

My 1:48 scale model of the 16-gun Sloop HMS Vulture had about 12,500 0.5mm bamboo treenails in the hull and decks, and it is less than half the size of Victory . I didn't keep track of how long it took me to do them, as I did the majority of them as I was building and not all in one go, but I'd estimate at least 2 weeks if I did them all at once. The choice is up to you.

 

  Danny

Over 12,000 treenails?! WOW!  Thats a lot! Super impressive!  I can see that doing them as yiu build the decks and hull is the better way becausr doing all those nails at once would be very tedious and monotonous. 

 

I will stick with how I'm doing them right now.  I did notice that I will need to sand more on the edge planks because the deck slightly curves down and my deck doesn't currently do that.

 

 

[Zarkon]

maaaslo,

Thank you for the compliment!! That really makes me feel like I'm doing a good job and helps me want to do my best!

 

Directing him to this forum was a great idea! This site has a LOT of helpful information. I just wish he had listened to you.

 

Jeff

[Dan Vadas]

38 minutes ago, Zarkon said:

I did notice that I will need to sand more on the edge planks because the deck slightly curves down and my deck doesn't currently do that

Also, the higher the deck the more roundup it has. You can see it in this post from my HMS Vulture Cross-section (4th pic down)

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

I was currently making the coamings and grille combs for the second deck, but then I took a look at where the main mast was positioned on the model. Looking at the plans, the main mast position looked a little too close to the edge of the deck. I then referened the book Anatomy Of The Ship The 100-Gun Ship Victory by John McKay.  After  some calculations, I realized how different the kit is to the real ship.

 

The masts arent positioned correctly, the stairs are in the wrong spot, a ton of details are missing or looked over (this i more understand because it is a kit), ect ect ect.  It was sorta a revelation as to how much detail and accuracy is missing from the kit.  It made me question if I should modify the kit to correct the more obvious bigger differences or just leave them how the kit had it planned out.

 

I havent decided what to do. I would be curious what others have done!

 

Jeff

[leginseel]

That's exactly why I recommended John Mackays book to you.  I've had the similar issues with my Constructo Bounty. You have to take a view between authenticity and 'look' and unfortunately make some compromises. It's for this reason that I am creating a Victory fund to buy a Caldercraft kit which I understand is about as good as it gets. Keep your chin up and I'm confident that you'll find a way through it.