Swift 1805 by ortho85 - Artesania Latina - first effort

[ortho85]

Well, I started building this before I discovered MSW, unfortunately.  Now I will take it (even) slower, and research each step.  This is where I'm up to, as I write:

 

 

The story so far - I visited the local Hobbyrama, looking for something relatively simple, but still interesting.  I was surprised to see that most of the customers were not young any more (like me).  I settled on this Swift, as it looked to fit my needs.

 

 

On opening it, I was impressed by the number and quality of the parts and instructions.  Silly me!

 

 

 

I soon found out that the instructions (despite saying it's for 14+) assume you have made hundreds of these things before.  Like a fool, I believed they made sense, and tried my best.

 

I assembled the keel and frames etc., and started in planking the decks.  My first big mistake - the instructions said to use 0.6x5x85mm planks, but there were only 400mm planks in the kit.  The illustration did not clarify the situation, so I just stuck them on whole, and trimmed off the ends!  After I glued in the interior decks I had this mess:

 

 

 

At this point I was up to #2 of 32 instructional illustrations.  Step 3 was were I almost gave up - trying to make the flat deck bend in 3 dimensions to fit the frames seemed impossible.  I Googled, and there I found MSW.  My introduction allowed me to ask questions, gave me answers, and hence I started taking photos.

 

As well as failing to make small planks, I also learned that it is easier to plank AFTER warping and gluing in the deck.  Too late!  I was told how to shape the deck and how to unglue, so I made a test piece:

 

 but neither a bit of soaking nor isopropyl alcohol loosened the 3 day old glue - so far I've only used PVA for all joins.

 

I managed to shape the deck after moistening and microwaving sufficiently to get it to fit lengthwise, and glued it in with the aid of some cheap clamps from Bunnings:

 

 

 

That's my typing finger worn out for today, but I have a question before I go.  In the older kits I see people made balsa add-ons to fill sections where the planks need more support.  I think this newer kit may not need that (???) but I do need to add something to fill in at the stern.  As I hope you can see in the next photo, I think I need to pack out the stiffener and stern frame nearest the camera, to widen and recontour them.

 

 

I know it's not professional, but can I use some sort of plastic wood?

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

[SKID]

Brett, your off to a good start. Keep up the good work.

As far as fillers you can use Balsa as you can shape it easily.

Basically all you are trying to do is to give the planks more of a surface to glue on to instead of just the bulkheads.

I myself did not use any fillers and just glued the planks right on to the bulkheads and it did just fine.

[slagoon]

The balsa fillers are really useful, especially if you are new to planking. Balsa is so soft you can literally cut it with your fingernail. As Kevin said the Balsa allows you to have more area to glue the planks to, it also ensures you don't accidentally create an artificial concave region in your planking as the shape is continued with the balsa.

 

Not sure what you mean by plastic wood - there are no rules here - you can do whatever makes you happy and will have you happy when you've finished it as well.

 

Best of luck and will keep an eye on your progress.

[ortho85]

Kevin, that's good to know that you didn't need the fillers.

 

Sarah, Plastic Wood is like a putty - http://www.selleys.com.au/fillers/rigid-filler/ready-to-use/plastic-wood

 is one version (although I avoid Selley's wherever possible!).

 

I reckon I just need to bulk out and reshape those 2 stern frames - the others I can sand/trim down, but these need adding to.

 

Thanks!

[maso]

Brett, Looking good so far. Good to see another Queensland builder here.

 

Dave.

[jarero]

Looking good so far.  Keep going and enjoy the build.  I'll be happy to watch your progress!

[themadchemist]

Hello Ortho

I highly recommend the Balsa at the bow and stern, there's a lot of curvature in those areas and the extra gluing surface really helps. I know what you mean about the deck I finally broke down and used brute force and CA to glue it. You'll find every part on this kit hard to clamp as there isn't a straight line on her, which give her form and beauty. She's a great little kit, my advice, throw away the instructions and use MSW. My older kit has the blueprint and 4 1/2 pages of poorly written instructions. I use the blueprint for measurements and that about it.

 

Check her really good for symmetry before planking, for example on the sterm bulkhead (looks like its doubled) notice the starboard (left side as its upside down) the bulkhead doesn't reach the deck line. I had lots of little problems like this and had to shim and fair the bulkhead quite a lot.

 

I'll be following along so if you have any questions, I have little experience overall, but lots with the old Swift kit and the 2 kits (old and new) are very similar. Its good to have a new Swift being build. My best advise, HAVE FUN!... and Welcome to MSW

[themadchemist]

Oh one other thing, on putty/plastic wood or even PVA mixed with sawdust... It usually cures harder then the surrounding wood and causes uneven sanding. I used balsa and loved it, its really easy to shape to form with a rasp then sand to smooth... of course just my opinion...

[ortho85]

 

 

Check her really good for symmetry before planking, for example on the sterm bulkhead (looks like its doubled) notice the starboard (left side as its upside down) the bulkhead doesn't reach the deck line. 

 

Yup, that's the section I'm stressing over before diving in.  The current instructions call them a stiffener and frame.

 

I can't see how to use balsa since the bit I need to pad out is really just the edges of these 2 "frames", and that's a thin irregular shape.  I hope this photo will show where I'm thinking some form of putty might help:

 

 

I can see it would be easy enough to use balsa in the larger voids, but this one looks too awkward.  Any hints out there?

 

Thanks

[themadchemist]

Hey Brett

 Your rear bulkhead is quite different from the older swift. The bulkheads will need to be faired (beveled) so planks will lay flat. I know I've read that the laser burnt wood sometimes doesn't glue well so sanding it off may be a good thing. mine were press cut not lasered.

 

Here's a pic on fairing I cut from SIMPLE HULL PLANKING TECHNIQUES FOR BEGINNERS Written, illustrated & edited by: Dirk De Bakker (kelvin12) and Greg Brooker (gregb) With assistance from Dave Rogers (heliman41)

which is a planking PDF downloadable from MSW. Go here for lots of GREAT info: http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

 

 

 

You may have to putty those back bulkheads, but i'd probably try putting balsa in them but thats just me.

Here's my concerns.

 

 

 

[themadchemist]

On the older Swift the stern is quite different. On my kit there were no back bulkheads and the end of the keel was all I had.

Here are some pictures of the old kit solution I used.

 

[Lucius Molchany]

Yeah its about right!  

[ortho85]

It seems the actual construction is the quick bit - it takes soooooo long to figure out how to do each step.

 

Right from the start I was having problems with shaping the deck in 3 dimensions.  After managing to roughly curve it from stem to stern, I settled on BF&I for the lateral curvature - that's brute force and ignorance if the TLA is new to you!

 

So, one by one I applied PVA glue and clamps to each frame.  I solved the clamping dilemma by sawing slots along a scrap of pine, so the keel and frames could locate in the slots without stress.  Elastics held the brace while I applied the two clamps simultaneously:

 

 

After about 100 years I had beaten the deck into submission:

 

 

As you can see, I had to sand back the frames on the starboard side, as they stuck out beyond the deck.  It was only when I began planning the planking that I realised that I had to sand down the deck itself on the port side, for a similar reason!

 

And now I'm at the scary planking stage, playing around with pre-bending, clamps, etc.  And one plank at a time may mean it will be a while before I finish this stage!

[Old Sea Dog]

Great job so far, keep up the good work.

[themadchemist]

Hey Ortho

The deck looks great. Nice curvature and I love your method for clamping. Its a hard bugger to get a clamp on and the symmetrical approach seems to have worked well.

 

Now to fairing the bulkheads and I'd recommend adding balsa blocks at least in the bow. I even added a piece close to the keel between bulkhead 2 and 3 so the garbord strake (the one next to the keel) had extra gluing area and am glad I did.

With the differing stern bulkhead on your ship I'd still probably add balsa. Always better to have gluing area on heavily curved planking areas IMHO.

 

Take the planking as an excercise in making many different shaped models (each plank) rather then making a hull. Also plank from side to side working your way back and forth. I put the top strake and garboard on first, then marked the bulkheads for plank spacing (12 a side on the older kit). I then planked towards the middle, workin both sides. This is also good as similar clamping stategies can be used from one side to the other.

[ortho85]

Thanks guys.  

 

themadchemist, I've bought some balsawood, so that's a start!  I wish you'd hurry up with your build, so I can see how you handle fitting the keel!  Can't see you hurrying, though - you're creating a work of art!

 

Cheers,

 

Brett

[themadchemist]

actually the keel is coming soon. I bought a cherry plank for making a new keel, just need to get out to dad's shop.

[rman]

Thank you all for the good advise. I am about to start the deck-to-frame glueing on the Swift and the idea of glueing the centerline first and then frame by frame makes a lot of sense...will keep you posted!

[themadchemist]

Hey ortho,

I just fit my stern post so the keels nearly done and its up if you want to see how it all fits. of course this is the first dry fit. I still need to do quite a bit of hull shaping long the keel line. I'm attempting to have a 0.5mm fake rabbet at the bearding line so the second planking transition is nice an smooth and looks fit into the keel.

 

@rman, you should start a log. Join the Swift builders. 

I too found its best to glue the centerline, then glue frame by frame. I also used brute force but used CA. I prefer using PVA glue and love orthos method of holding the deck to the frames. If I were doing it again thats what I'd do. You'll find the Swift is a hard little bugger to clamp due to it curvature, but I love its compound curved deck.

[PopJack]

I want to just chime in on a couple of things.  I'm building the older Swift- and have finished another similar boat.  I know a lot less than most people on the site- so take it with a grain of salt.

 

The faring of the bulkheads.  It is really, really important.  It will make planking the hull produce a good result.  If you don't do a good job here, you will see it later- and its hard to fix.  This is experience talking!

 

When its time to plank (and you're close), I read someone who said, "treat each plank like its an individual project."  This mindset is really a good one.  Don't think of it as planking the hull- that will make you want to rush.  Try not to force the boards around, let them follow their own path and pre-bend them so that you aren't stuck trying to hold them and force them in position while getting CA glue all over you.  Also I've tried a variety of things in bending wood.  The easiest for this beginner was soaking and using a hair curling iron.

 

Finally, like others, I would not recommend plastic wood- it drys too hard.  (Not that it doesn't have uses!) There are some excellent water based fillers on the market- you can get in small amounts from either Rockler or Woodcraft- and probably other places as well.  The stuff I use is called "Wunderfil" from Rockler.  Once you have this stuff shaped and sanded, you will need to coat it with either a sanding sealer or primer or similar before adding glue.

 

Have fun.

[ortho85]

Apologies for the lack of posts.  I was away, then lost interest for a while, and just wanted to get it finished in some fashion.

 

I didn't take many progress photos, and I can't remember ALL the mistakes I made.

 

My biggest mistake, though, was not seeking advice before rushing in.

 

Here are a few photos - apologies for poor photography, and general mess!

 

Start of planking - I didn't understand shaping the bulkheads, and, as you can see, didn't even remove some of the laser burns:

 

 

How the hell do you clamp in 3 dimensions?

 

 

Well, I finally got the first layer of planking on.  I realise now I should have shaved down (rabbeted?) the thickness of the keel to allow for the plank thickness?

 

 

But I persisted in assuming the moron who wrote the instructions realised that they were writing for morons like me!

 

[ortho85]

And so it continued - mistake after mistake.  I have no photos of adding the second planking layer, or most other things.

 

 

Here I made the same mistake as Jared - put the hatch comings flat to the deck, instead of edge on.  And I ran out of the correct timber!

 

 

And a side view so far (this was taken on 11th May)

 

 

[ortho85]

And that was when we went away for a few weeks - Rome, Florence, Milan, Nice, Glasgow, London - tough life?

 

After that I stopped taking photos, and just wanted to get some sort of ending.  I didn't realise how much was left to do after I finished the timber parts.

 

Also, the instructions for all the fine detailing of rigging etc are along the lines of "here's a picture, copy this".

 

So, here are a few "finished" photos I took recently - please note the high quality stand I made!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ortho85]

And a bit closer up

 

 

 

 

[ortho85]

As you can see, I'm not the only one unimpressed by my first build

 

 

The reason I'm finally posting this is that I'm about to take the plunge again.  Having spent a couple of months reading and researching, I ordered the Model Shipways Armed Virginia Sloop - it arrived today.

 

I intend to:

1. Keep a better build log.
2. RTFM
3. Ask for help

Also, I have planned my work area better, and stocked up on some tools etc as recommended in the articles on this site.

 

So, farewell to this mess, thanks for all the fish, and Excelsior!

[SlowPoke_ZA]

Hi all

I am new to the forum and glad to be here. I am new here because as a Christmas gift from my thoughtful wife I received a Swift 1805 model build kit. YAY!!! 

I have assembled the basic "frame" and dry fitted the the mid and top decks. They seem to fit ok but will need sanding and shaping. I love this thread as it already gave me a lot of important info  - the build instructions are basically just a series of photos supposedly showing what build steps should look like. Problem is the photos are not clear and some details are just not visible.

 

I have a few questions though on this model:

1) What glue should I use?  (was thinking normal white wood glue - but if there is a better model glue I would love to know about it)

2) Planking - I see you mention a 2nd layer of planks on the hull? - is this required for the model?

3) On the instruction photos it shows the planks being "nailed" to the bulkheads but in your build photos I do not see these nails. - Do I use glue only or is it acceptable to use the copper nails for the planks? - must be honest I like the look of the nails but would like to keep it true to life and if they should not be in then I wont use it.

4) The decks - do all the decks also get planking cover? - worried I wont have enough planks lol!

5) Should I start a build thread so as to make comments and input easier - do not want to hijack this thread.

 

Jacques

[mtaylor]

Jacque,

 

By all means start a build log and re-ask your questions there.  You'll have some continuity as well as a reference.

 

Also, check out the other logs of the swift...

[cdogg]

Jacques, probably best to start a build,log and repost the questions. I have this kit as well, I can get you some answers to the questions there. Also, it will be easier for other members to see your questions. This a nice kit to start with.

[ortho85]

Hi all

I am new to the forum and glad to be here. I am new here because as a Christmas gift from my thoughtful wife I received a Swift 1805 model build kit. YAY!!! 

I have assembled the basic "frame" and dry fitted the the mid and top decks. They seem to fit ok but will need sanding and shaping. I love this thread as it already gave me a lot of important info  - the build instructions are basically just a series of photos supposedly showing what build steps should look like. Problem is the photos are not clear and some details are just not visible.

 

I have a few questions though on this model:

1) What glue should I use?  (was thinking normal white wood glue - but if there is a better model glue I would love to know about it)

2) Planking - I see you mention a 2nd layer of planks on the hull? - is this required for the model?

3) On the instruction photos it shows the planks being "nailed" to the bulkheads but in your build photos I do not see these nails. - Do I use glue only or is it acceptable to use the copper nails for the planks? - must be honest I like the look of the nails but would like to keep it true to life and if they should not be in then I wont use it.

4) The decks - do all the decks also get planking cover? - worried I wont have enough planks lol!

5) Should I start a build thread so as to make comments and input easier - do not want to hijack this thread.

 

Jacques

Hi Jaques,

 

Welcome - and well done in finding the Forum before starting assembling.

 

In reverse order of your questions:

• Start a build log and ask for help at every step.  I didn't realise how slowly it all proceeds, but ask twice, cut once!
• If it's the new kit there are enough planks.  Two things - plank the deck after gluing it on; consider cutting or marking the planks in shorter lengths for realism.
• I don't think most people use the nails.  You can simulate them with a pencil mark - use the search bar for this.
• The model comes with double planking.  You make the mistakes with the first layer, use wood filler, then cover it up with the better looking second layer (with fewer mistakes, we hope!).
• I mostly used the white glue (PVA).  Apparently you can buy faster setting PVA, and experts are good with CA.  One of my mistakes was thinking CA stood for "Contact Adhesive" - it's really CyanoAcrylate!  Read http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1894-glue-recommendations/?hl=glue

Final comment (for now) - don't believe the instructions, and don't trust the sizes they pre-cut, close but not 100%.

 

Enjoy!

 

Brett