H.M.S Triton by Shihawk POF 1:48

[shihawk]

Hi all .As promised in my section log i have decided to give the full Triton build a try and have spent the last month or so trying out a few things to see how to proceed . This time i am going for the measure , measure and measure again approach as there will be a lot of time  (years probably ) invested in this project i figure i should start as i mean to go on and try to do as good a job as i can . I have only built a couple of kits and my last the Victory i finished up scratch building the most of it anyway so i thought why not go for it and try a complete scratch build ,plus i find the look of a fully framed hull without planking and showing all the inner construction so much more appealing , some of the builds  on here are truly amazing . I may be dreaming but if i don,t try i will never know what my limits are ?

I see from the build logs that very few have finished this build and i can understand why , this is a very big commitment and i hope i will be able to finish eventually but time will tell !  My experience with the Triton section taught me quite a lot but probably the main thing was the difference in woods , yes , i have discovered  PEAR  !!!! , a vast change from the kit supplied woods and for that reason most of this build will probably be pear , but it,s early days yet and anyone who knows me know things may change ???

A few pics of progress so far 

 

 

[shihawk]

My first few weeks of this build have raised quite a few questions , some of which i have figured out , i think , but some are still bothering me so if i can raise a few queries without sounding completely stupid it may help me to get some things straight in my big head ??

I should point out that i build for the overall look and therefore may cut a few corners , i was never a fan of treenailing or simulating every bolthead but may yet consider either or both as i proceed . I also find myself lookin for simpler ways to achieve the look i want ,  a good example of this is shown in the last pic where most of the bow section is made from 2 pieces of wood and the caulking simulated by scribing and filling with a dark wood filler ,, i intend doing the same on the keel ,although most of the joints will not be seen anyway ?

Now to my first question ....The stern deadwood again i made from a single piece and measured as accurate as possible from the keel plan but on double checking on the lines on the build board the groves for the cant frames do not appear to be correct , however the measurement s on the Disposition of Frames plan appear to be more in line ,should i go by this plan instead or am i missing something . I noticed in a few of the other build logs this also appeared to be a problem but no one explained the conclussion ???

Next .. i have been thinking about making the frames from a single piece or rather two pieces with a scarf joint above the keel . however i read in some of the logs that these plans are not suitable for a single , would it be safe to assume that the most of the mid frames would be suitable even if the cant frames are not , main reason i ask is i need to order wood and find if easier to order cut to size . 

Enough for to-nite ,thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some lite on my queries .

 

 

[Jorge Diaz O]

 

Hello, very good work, do not worry if you do not make the perfect model, we are all learning and try all the ideas that you can think of, I follow you in your work ... What wood are you using? To translate use google

[shihawk]

Thanks Jorge , i know there is no such thing as the perfect model , not for me anyway and yes i will certainly try out all the strange idea,s i think up and t

hen probably go back to the original plans ????  The main hull will be Pear , not sure yet about the internal stuff .

 

Boyd.

 

[Jorge Diaz O]

 

 

Hello, it will be a great model of the HMS Triton, we hope you upload more photos soon

[shihawk]

i thought i,d report on progress .. or lack of it ,, 

 Aft deadwood , i had mentioned the possible variation on a couple of the plans ,and hoped that the Disposition of frames plan was more accurate and recut the deadwood piecs accordingly ,, Turns out it was still slightly of so finished up measuring of the baseboard plan and hope this will be more satisfactory , as u can see some of the patches need triming to suit the 3,rd measurements ?

[shihawk]

will probably need tp redo the aft deadwood piece but will wait untill i fit the cant frames just in case i need to make more changes .

 The fore cant frames seem to work out fairly well but the aft ones are causing me a few headaces . i get confused by all the lines and where to trim , have tried various methods , even the blue /black lines on one side and the red on the other , this got me even more confused ???.  trimed them down to see if i could get my big head around it and decided the best way is to remake them and leave the triming untill i have 28 connected to the filling frames . i realise this will mean a lot of fairing but better safe than sorry .  would like to add to make sure and check which color of frame goes aft and which fore as they do change from bow and stern . Have also decided to remove the top of the building frame untill i get the aft section sorted as i have difficulty seeing the fit of the cant frames ,but may replace it when doing the mid frames .

Have made up the filling frames but they also will not be faired untill fitted !!

[shihawk]

I decided that one of the main things in this build is getting definate  points to measure from . For the aft section i used the aft line on the 19 frame to set the whole aft piece , On the same theme i made sure the filling frames all ran flush to the Rabbit line .although i don,t intend to plane this it hopefully will keep everything in line . This is not a kit , there are no instructions and please forgive my ramblings but maybe somewhere down the line they may be of help to some one . I must admit i am finding this a challenge but an enjoyable one .

[Jorge Diaz O]

Nice

 

 

[shihawk]

Hi all .. A cry for help ..... As i,m waiting for wood supplies before i start the main framing i thought i would sort out the cant frames while waiting and have become completely confused !!!!!!  i picked up on the blue aft ,red fore part which changes midway but having made up several of the aft cant frames i cannot get them to look right or line up on the build frame   ,,i have blue lines ,,red lines ,,green lines and black lines ,which do i trin to ??? I,m assuming that the frames are made similiar to the section or am i missing something ,, or am i just being stupid ???? i have searched the build logs but everyone just seems to produce the cant frames without any great problems   . i have been triming them to fit the curve on the build frame and wondered it this was where i was making the mistake ???  Was the frame designed to suit untrimed frames .. I know very few poeple are doing this project now but if anyone can give me a few pointers in the right direction before i waste any more wood it would be greatly appreciated . 

[GrandpaPhil]

It's a 3 dimensional picture because the cant frames aren't square.  The green lines are the aft part of the aft cant frames and the black lines are the forward part of the aft cant frames.  They are there so you can cut the bevel on the frames.  Hopefully that helps.

[shihawk]

tks Phil .. I know there has to be simple explanation and it is just that I can,t get it into my head . I made up a couple more frames this morning and will try again with your explanation . Am I correct in trying to have the red pattern pointing forward and the blue pattern on the aft side or do I need to be removing the blue pattern as I stick the red frame on top ,meaning I only have a pattern on the forward part of the frame ,, see I,m overthinking .

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by shihawk

[Jorge Diaz O]

 

Hello, do not be discouraged, you are doing an excellent job, keep trying.

[GrandpaPhil]

I agree with Jorge.  You are doing well.  Don’t get discouraged.  The cant frames are difficult to make.

 

I have never built POF.  I’m familiar with the theory, but I’ve never done it.

 

I would glue the pattern with the green and black to both sides and use that set your bevels.  For the aft cant frames, the black should be your guide for the forward side of the bevels and the green should be your guide for the aft side of the bevels.

[shihawk]

Thank u both for  the encouragement , i think it may be frustration rather than discouragement , I always did have problems with 3 D drawings ,might be the way i am wired .lol . Now that i know for sure which lines to go by i think i have it sorted, so tks again Phil that little nudge was all i needed .i made 2 more 28 frames and they seem better .

I,m also wondering if my messing around with the aft deadwood may have been a mistake and will need to check it again ,may need to go back to the original ???    

More timber coming to-morrow so i think i will start with frame 19 and work my way back to get a better understanding of the run of the frames ,if that makes sence .

One more thing before i start butchering this lovely pear wood again ,if i were to use the patterns from the assembly drawings and put them front and back can these frames be made from a single piece ????? I think i read in one of the logs that for some reason this would not work but that was 5 years ago and wondered if the plans had perhaps changed to accomidate this or indeed if this was what was ment by a SINGLE PIECE FRAME  ???????  seems a shame to cut wood to stick it back together again., plus it would save all that tedious frame assembly ,( i,m not lazy just thinking out loud  )  I did cut a couple and they seem exactly the same shape either way  ,but again maybe i,m missing something ?another loose wire perhaps ? no pics atm ,will try a few things and show later .

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated 

 

Boyd

[GrandpaPhil]

The reason for the multipart frames is that the grain of the wood will cause problems if you try to make them out of one piece.  That’s also why they overlap.

 

You’ll lose a lot of strength if you try to make one piece frames.

 

 

[shihawk]

Tks Phil .That was the only reason i could think off but didn,t think it would be a major problem . Now i know , stick with the plan,s Boyd they are there for a reason !!!!!

[druxey]

Just dropped in to this conversation. All those lines in different colors can be very confusing. Just cut the pieces to the widest lines: the rest should happen as you fair up the framing later, provided that the framing is accurately placed. Even experienced builders have to re-make cant frames several times over to get them just so, so don't be discouraged!

[pontiachedmark]

Gidday everyone.

I cannot add to the discussion as I don't have the expertise.

The above conversation is why I joined this site. The sharing of knowledge is fantastic. 

Mark.

[shihawk]

I thought i should make a short post to prove i did not give up and after a lot of head scratching ,re-measuring and quite a bit of sawdust i have made some progress . One of my problems was i must confess was tryng to take short cuts without realising the consequences ,{ by the way i never could spell}   i will point these out in the hope that maybe some new  builders may avoid my  mistakes   

Because i decided it would be quicker to make the keel from one piece and scribe the scarf joints if necessary i neglected to cut the 2 mm rebate the aft deadwood sit,s into . 

Because i decided to make the aft deadwood from one piece i used the A1 keel plan measurements for the steps in the aft deadwood and when i dicovered they were not correct i used the Disposition of frames plan to try and correct them .. It turns out that the red lines on the aft deadwood plans are the ones that are most accurate .

I realise that a lot of the basic info for beginners in this project was probably lost in the crash and many of the reposted logs left out a lot of the original discussion which may have covered a lot of my confussion about the many different colored lines . Tks to Phil i did finally get my big head around it and although it is simple once  u know it care still needs to be taken ,especially with the cant frames . { or maybe i am stupid after all }

I redid the aft deadwood and remade a few frames and using the lines was even brave enough to fair them to within a mm or so of the lines ,, may regret this later ??? i found it usefull to pencil in the frames outlines before to much fairing . 

 the pics that follow show what i finished with and nothing has been glued yet as some parts still need a fine tuning but i,m reasonably happy with the result so far !!!!

 

[Jorge Diaz O]

Genial.

 

[shihawk]

Hi all . thought i would make another post about my painfully slow progress .I did remake quite a few  of the aft cant frames, and the aft deadwood ,and the stern post but have i think finished up with something i can work with . I finally glued all the aft cant frames in place and then discovered that the transoms where to short so had to remake them all and also the sternpost as i had faired it incorrectly to the rabit line . I made them way to big as u will see in the pics but will fair them to size when in place , Problem is i may have to remove the end cant frames to install the aft section properly , not a big problem as at least i know now every thing should fit . I put a couple of pins in the sternpost to make sure i was fitting correctly . Nothing glued yet except the cant frames so still able to make small adjustments before final fitting  did some fairing just to check that everything lines up but still a lot to do 

[Jorge Diaz O]

very good

[shihawk]

Things going a bit better now and pics soon but i have been wondering is it worth buying 1 or more of the FFM books to help me complete this project . I don,t intend putting masts on this build and very little planking ,so i,m wondering which volume or volumes would be of most use . Can anyone with experience of these books offer any advice .

 

Thanks 

Boyd 

 

[jackenzombie]

TFFM Vol. I and II cover every aspect of the hull construction and fittings.

Vol. III documents Greg Herberts "Pegasus" build in pictures, also very helpfull.

Vol. IV is about masts, rigging and sails, maybe not necessary for your PoF build.

But if I were you, I would by them all. You won't regret it...

 

Regards,

Rainer

 

[shihawk]

Thanks Rainer .. I think i,ll go with vol 1& 2 for the time being. 

.

[shihawk]

Just a few pics of how the stern section finished up after a few redo,s and modifications .As i thought i had to remove the last 2 cant frames to install the new transoms . Have partially sanded them to make sure they are close to correct and will finish sanding later . Not sure if the rabit line is correct but worked on the assumption that the planks need to fit smoothly into it and as i don,t intend planking i,m happy if it looks the part . Have ordered vol 1+2  of FFM but having read Chuck,s post about the US customs problems am not expecting a speedy delivery if ever ,so will carry on blindly in hope . Next is the bow section ,, wish me luck ????

[Jorge Diaz O]

 

It looks very good, excellent work, very clean and tidy, then tells me about the books, I'm also interested in buying them.

[shihawk]

Hi Jorge . The books are the  Fully Framed Model Swan class  available from Seawatch books who have a link down the right side of the homepage here . They are not cheap but come highly reccommended 

 

[Jorge Diaz O]

 

Hello, if I know the books, I want to build the HMS PEGASUS in the future, but its price is very high and I wanted that when you receive them I would comment if they are worth it, I want to finish my HMS TRITON in June, greetings from Tocopilla.