Reale De France by 72Nova - FINISHED - Heller

[72Nova]

No problem Frank, I slipped the line with a knot at the end behind the shroud so it would not pull through, crossed over the shroud and loop it back under, then feed the line behind that shroud and the adjacent one and pull tight while pulling down the shroud to tighten things up and repeat.

When you get the last shroud just tuck it in behind the woolding.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Michael D.

 

 

[72Nova]

1 hour ago, Hubac's Historian said:

The main thing that intimidates me about ship modeling is the rigging; in particular, neat servings, and lashings make such a huge impact on the model’s final appearance.  Do you have any advice, Michael, with regard to how you first learned to approach these techniques.

I really enjoy the rigging phase the most and need to get better at it, but pretty much trial and error Marc and looking at others technique, especially Kirill and Dafi, with no disrespect to anybody on this site, but those two are the best I've seen...but honestly glue is your best friend and for me just a simple overhand knot 90% of the time. Bobbin thread works great for seizing the lines for the running rigging as this stuff is fairly thin and depending on the scale .40 awg copper is almost human hair thin.

 

Michael D.

 

[fmodajr]

13 hours ago, safemaster said:

No problem Frank, I slipped the line with a knot at the end behind the shroud so it would not pull through, crossed over the shroud and loop it back under, then feed the line behind that shroud and the adjacent one and pull tight while pulling down the shroud to tighten things up and repeat.

When you get the last shroud just tuck it in behind the woolding.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Michael D.

 

 

Thank you for the detailed photos and instruction appreciated!

Frank

[Hubac's Historian]

Thanks, Michael.  Kirill and Dafi are very talented, and I watch those guys as well.  Nice tip on the bobbin thread.  I remember when sewing stores used to be a thing, and thread was easily obtainable and discernible, in person.

 

The other thing that I wonder about is what type of CA glue - super thin?? - and whether you wait to fix with glue until all of your lines are up and set, so that you can adjust tension.  The worst, for me, is when one line going taught causes another to slack, when it shouldn’t be.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[72Nova]

Marc my go to for thread is wal-mart, joanns fabric stores, they carry the coats and clark brand I use for the running rigging.  I use the zap a gap medium ca+ as it does not soak into the thread as much. I coat all my lines with thinned pva glue and hang them with the weight of a binder clip for a few minutes before I install them.

I've found the less tension the better in keeping the lines stable, when rigging the stays do all the lower at the same time first, then all the top mast stays at the same time etc, when completed then secure the lanyards on all the shrouds, doing it this way for me anyways keeps the masts from being pulled in one direction when doing them individually. The standing back stays I  complete tying them off at the mast and leave them hanging at the channels with a binder clip until most of the running rigging is complete on that mast IE: lifts, clew, bunt, leech lines etc.

Same thing applies to the running rigging, both sides at the same weighting one side with small a binder clip when tying off the other working your way up the mast...very little tension!!!.

When I built my Victory I used the supplied plastic spindly top gallant masts and had no issues, hope this helps.

 

Michael D.

[Hubac's Historian]

That really helps a great deal, Michael - thank you!

[ERS Rich]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:21 AM, Hubac's Historian said:

Thanks, Michael.  Kirill and Dafi are very talented, and I watch those guys as well.  Nice tip on the bobbin thread.  I remember when sewing stores used to be a thing, and thread was easily obtainable and discernible, in person.

 

The other thing that I wonder about is what type of CA glue - super thin?? - and whether you wait to fix with glue until all of your lines are up and set, so that you can adjust tension.  The worst, for me, is when one line going taught causes another to slack, when it shouldn’t be.

 

A way to deal with the taunt line makes another line go slack problem....rig the line to the belay point, then run the line over the side and weight it with a clip.....this allows for adjustments, after all lines are rigged fix them to the belay point....

 

Cheers!

 

 

[72Nova]

Pretty much how I do it, thanks for pointing out the belaying part I left out and the illustration Rich, that helps a lot!.👍

 

Michael D.

[kirill4]

Good day,

Dear Friends,

Agree, very agree :))) with Michael and ERS Rich comments and remarks...

My favorite way- try to use as much less tensions /or any  loads to the rigging lines as possible! And wherenever possible 

Running riggings should don't have loading as all, and for standing rigging , loads need to be used as less as possible, we need to try to use natural straight of the lines / after painting,they became quite hard and straight , if it is  not sufficient , we could use some very small weight , just keep lines in straight shape......

I like very mach CA gel , for almost all points where knots or lines need to be fixed between each other, or for imitation of coils ropes which lays on decks or on railings  in "gravity " apearance when need to be shown them in such way...

Very thin/ liquid CA I use when very thin lines(as crowfeets for example) need to be shown strait, and using some small weights...

In this way( making crowfeets), first better to use unpainted threads, and try to create all ness-ry shapes of the lines...and than apply "CA very liquid "...  when all dried,after Ca liquid, all this small ,thin lines could be painted in ness-ry colors...

 

[kirill4]

I meant , we are talking about plastic riggs and rigging plastic masts and yards :)))

[kirill4]

I used to separate threads when fixing running rigging lines on the belaying points and imitation of coils above this points....which in reality are the same rigging lines :)))

[72Nova]

Appreciate your input Kirill and just admire the rigging on your Spanish Galleon, the one area I really need to get more proficient at is introducing a more natural sag in the lines.

 

Michael D.

[Hubac's Historian]

All great advice - thank you, gentlemen!

[kirill4]

Michael,

to imitate "gravity" I used to give the line some "spare" length, or slack?..

from block to block,.than, when it pass trough the intermediate block, or even final block, I apply small drop of CA gel ( end of tooth pick) on the line just in front of block hole and tnan pull it slightly  trough the block...

as resalt line fixed in the block,and there is remains small q-ty of CA on the thread outside block...

due to specific of the CA gel, it is drying slowly,

We can use pincett and squize thread around and slightly down the block ,thus it  gives visual effect of "gravity " weight of the line when it passes through the block without tension...

[kirill4]

Sorry for my english, but I hope idea is clear in general...

pls consider, that rigging treads need to be painted in advance , before start rigging...oil artistic paint and specific oil could be used, or acrylic paint ( which is much less advantage compare to oil paint and artistic oil)...

When rigging treads treated in this way, they became as thin copper wire ,and very handy for manipulation when we need to imitate slack or strait rigging lines...

[kirill4]

Recently I disvovered that imitation of coiled rope on belaying pins could be better to make from two parts, which gives more realistic vew...there we could use white wood clue for forming general coil and hair electro fan for fast drying...and drop of CA gel for forming final shape of the coil...detail You could see here

Post #85

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/6262-spanish-galleon-1607-by-kirill4-finished-lee-plastic-1100/page/3/

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by kirill4

[72Nova]

Great info Kirill, very much appreciated. I've been working on the main yard and still have a long way to go yet, but wanted to do a mock up to get an idea where to position the yard on the mast, since the sails will be furled I need to know how far to lower the yard without the large flag hitting the deck. I think where it sits now will work. Up next will be making the parrels and test fitting them before removing the yard and attaching the sail.

Michael D.

 

 

[kirill4]

Hello,

Michael,

It looks in correct position...do You plan to fitt the same set of flags and banners as on the museum model?

[72Nova]

Hi Kirill,

Yes I do, although I want to try and transfer the pattern on the paper flags to an iron material for cloth, we'll see how that works out, if not I'll use the paper flags.

Michael D.

 

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Thanks alot for this building report it does look very informative and is a scholarpice for advice. So I think about the temptation to opening the big kit after the removal and do a paralleely project to switch between both.

 

 

 

Thanks for temptation 😉

[72Nova]

Parallel projects me?, probably not as I'd end up with two hybrid builds of each other.

 

Michael D.

[kirill4]

6 hours ago, safemaster said:

Hi Kirill,

Yes I do, although I want to try and transfer the pattern on the paper flags to an iron material for cloth, we'll see how that works out, if not I'll use the paper flags.

Michael D.

 

Do You mean You are planning to use special thermotransfer foto paper?

Making flags in PC, print them on this paper and transfer by ironing to the cloth?

I purchased such a few years ago, made small flags for boat... planned to use it again for making galleon flags...

[72Nova]

Yes exactly Kirill it's something I've always wanted to try and it sounds like you have had great success it!!

 

Michael D.

[kirill4]

I've  made couple of small flags...just wanted to try,how it works...:)))

Found it does! :)))

At least on cloth it works... now need to try to transfer it on tissue paper, didn't try yet...

[72Nova]

I'm working out the parral arraingment using 0.25mm line and at the moment trying to figure out how to rig and where to belay the 4 lines?. English ships of the time have the lines spliced together about 3ft down with a long tackle block hooked to the parral rope and a single block hooked to an eyebolt in the deck at the base of the mast, did the French rig them in similar fashion?, oh and those black beads are temporary  as I await for the wood beads, although do like the contrast.

Michael D.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by safemaster

[kirill4]

Michael,

:)))

For defehetly aswers, may be we could ask one of  our french colleques , how  did they manage details of this rigging  ?..

As an  example, one of the  Museum chebeck rigging may be  will give answers for some of the questions?

And as I know there is monograf ,in famous Ancre's books series devoted to the  building of the galley, of the  Louis  XIV fleet ...

and there is a buillding log of the french galley as well which  we could see a few days ago?

Sometimes it looks like englishman did some of the rigging things in a different way  / in details/ compare to their chanal neighbour? 

Edited March 5, 2021 by kirill4

[kirill4]

You snown two separate racks ? Is it necessary to do like this?

Why not single of 4 rows?

[72Nova]

I figured out the belaying points...the 4th chain and toggle from aft with a single block, the parral ropes will be spliced at the ends with a long tackle block and the fall belayed to a cleat or eyebolt on the deck a. Kirill I'm going by this illustration that has the same setup as the museum model.

 

Michael D.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by safemaster

[Kevin]

thats some very tidy rope work

[kirill4]

Thanks Michael,

Very complicated construction as I could see on the model's foto...

Details still not fully clear to me...

interesting, why they need to be separated in two parral systems?

I see there are 5 rows in  total?