US Brig Syren 1803 by Overworked724 – Model Shipways – Scale 1:64

[abelson]

Excellent, detailed roof! You have a lot of patience - a ship builders virtue.

[Overworked724]

9 hours ago, niwotwill said:

How's the shoulder doing?

Doing better!  It’s a journey, but I’ve been religious with my exercises and physical therapy.  👍🏽

Edited December 8, 2021 by Overworked724

[Overworked724]

1 hour ago, abelson said:

Excellent, detailed roof! You have a lot of patience - a ship builders virtue.

Thanks, Abe!  Your build continues to inspire me as well. 👍🏽

[Overworked724]

The one area which invariably ends up making or breaking the exterior view of a ship model is the Pintles and Gudgeons.  These are really tricky for me, as few folks really break down the making, and installing of these things.
 

So…been noodling and researching for a while…and experimenting quite a bit. For my Sultana, I ended up using paper because I couldn’t work with metal. This time I wanted to really give it the ol’ college try to get a good result using brass. 
 

So…here is where I’m at so far. Long post coming:

 

1. Recut my P&G’s thinner to more closely match the plans. I used my original brass sheet/cherry wood sandwich. 
 

 

2. Separated one wooden side from all strips. 
 

 

3. After cleaning off the spray glue from the exposed metal side with acetone (nail polish remover), I used a round head drill bit (wood carving Dremel bit) to score in a ‘divot’. This keeps the tiny drill bit from floating when I drilled the actual nail holes. Nothing worse than uneven nail holes!
 

 

4. Then I drilled the actual holes. 
 

 

5. Then I separated the other half of the wood from the brass piece, cleaned it up, and cut it up into rough sections. 
 

 

 

The interior sides have the larger nail score mark and a center mark I put in to ensure my bending was consistent at the center. 
 

 

6. I decided for a triangular bend rather than a rounded one. It ensured I had centered the brass rod in each P&G. I used a wire bender…no jig. I eyeballed it…because I simply could not figure out how to make a good bending jig!!!!
 

 

 

7. Soldered in the brass tubing, cut, and polished up the P&Gs. I made a bunch of various sizes. I can trim and adjust as needed during fitting. 
 

 

Placed them on a fake stern piece to ensure the general fit and alignment. I was pretty happy with the center alignment and width. Fit was nice and clean…no gaps. 

 

 

 

Still have a long way to go, but these are the first metal P&Gs I ever made…and I’m pretty happy with them so far. 
 

Moving on.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Overworked724

[CPDDET]

Beautiful work, Pat!

I would be very greatfull for a photo or link to the "round head drill bit" you refered to. Keeping wire size bits from straying has been an issue for me. Sounds like you have a good solution.

[Overworked724]

43 minutes ago, CPDDET said:

Beautiful work, Pat!

I would be very greatfull for a photo or link to the "round head drill bit" you refered to. Keeping wire size bits from straying has been an issue for me. Sounds like you have a good solution.

I snapped about 4 drill bits before I arrived at this solution and it worked like a charm. I’ll add a separate post with more info, Dave. 

[Overworked724]

Dear @CPDDET Dave,

 

Thanks again for the kind words. You and the other shipmates kudos always keeps wind in my sails!  
 

Ok. My technique for nail holes in my P&Gs is as follows. It might sound stupid…but it works!  A mini drill press equipped with an x-y table are sort of mandatory for this to work.
 

 My initial trials with a #78 drill bit(s) met with disaster. I broke two before I went to the high precision PCB bits (0.4mm) and broke two of those little buggers. 🤬

 

The pics below shows one of my strip attempts. You can see where the drill bit was drifting (red arrows) as it scored the brass. The bits invariably snapped. I was beginning to doubt my choice of 0.3mm brass nails!  Those bloody things are tiny. 
 

AND BEFORE ANYONE ASKS…YES, I HEATED UP THE BRASS!!  I don’t believe it was annealed, as it was pretty soft. But the nail pattern looks like a drunk Irishman heading home on Saturday morning (said the drunk Irishman typing in a ship log).  
 

Hard to believe that was done with an x-y table. That’s how much the tiny bits drift before they gain purchase. 😣
 

 

I figured giving the drill bit a cup or starter point would work. Using a hammer and awl just deformed the brass strip. So I opted for using an engraving cutter. It worked beautifully. I just pressed it lightly into the strip of brass and it made a prefect little divot. 

 

Dremel 105 Engraving Cutter, 1/8" Shank , Gray https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00008Z9ZT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_AT62H13H1PW0ZN5DRMA5

 

 

After that, I just repeated the drill pattern using a tungsten high precision drill bit 0.4mm. Both the drill bits and Dremel engraving cutter are really cheap (yes…Amazon). 
 

The results speak for themselves. 
 

 

So…that’s my workaround. After I adopted this method, I cranked through the drilling portion in 45 min using one drill bit. No trouble. 
 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Overworked724

[Overworked724]

It occurred to me when trying the P&Gs on scrap basswood piece (same width as sternpost) that the width of the brass strap needs to be considered when the pintle and corresponding gudgeons are aligned (i.e. opposite direction of each other).  So I decided to sand off a bit of the brass at the ‘peak’ where the hollow brass tubing sits.
 

Also tried the small brass nails to lock it in place…and that sucker does not move!!
 

 

 

 

Moving on…

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Overworked724

[CPDDET]

13 hours ago, Overworked724 said:

Dear @CPDDET Dave,

 

Thanks again for the kind words. You and the other shipmates kudos always keeps wind in my sails!  
 

Ok. My technique for nail holes in my P&Gs is as follows. It might sound stupid…but it works!  A mini drill press equipped with an x-y table are sort of mandatory for this to work.
 

 My initial trials with a #78 drill bit(s) met with disaster. I broke two before I went to the high precision PCB bits (0.4mm) and broke two of those little buggers. 🤬

 

The pics below shows one of my strip attempts. You can see where the drill bit was drifting (red arrows) as it scored the brass. The bits invariably snapped. I was beginning to doubt my choice of 0.3mm brass nails!  Those bloody things are tiny. 
 

AND BEFORE ANYONE ASKS…YES, I HEATED UP THE BRASS!!  I don’t believe it was annealed, as it was pretty soft. But the nail pattern looks like a drunk Irishman heading home on Saturday morning (said the drunk Irishman typing in a ship log).  
 

Hard to believe that was done with an x-y table. That’s how much the tiny bits drift before they gain purchase. 😣
 

 

I figured giving the drill bit a cup or starter point would work. Using a hammer and awl just deformed the brass strip. So I opted for using an engraving cutter. It worked beautifully. I just pressed it lightly into the strip of brass and it made a prefect little divot. 

 

Dremel 105 Engraving Cutter, 1/8" Shank , Gray https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00008Z9ZT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_AT62H13H1PW0ZN5DRMA5

 

 

After that, I just repeated the drill pattern using a tungsten high precision drill bit 0.4mm. Both the drill bits and Dremel engraving cutter are really cheap (yes…Amazon). 
 

The results speak for themselves. 
 

 

So…that’s my workaround. After I adopted this method, I cranked through the drilling portion in 45 min using one drill bit. No trouble. 
 

 

[CPDDET]

Thank YOU, for sharing your techniques. You're a huge help / mentor to us newbies.

[Overworked724]

11 minutes ago, CPDDET said:

Thank YOU, for sharing your techniques. You're a huge help / mentor to us newbies.

LOL!  Dave, even on your bad days, I think your work far outshines mine!  But I’m glad you can find some new ideas in my build log!!  
 

[abelson]

Excellent innovation.

[niwotwill]

Very nice Patrick. If I take mine off will you make me some? HA HA HA

 

Regards

Will

[Overworked724]

2 hours ago, niwotwill said:

Very nice Patrick. If I take mine off will you make me some? HA HA HA

 

Regards

Will

Not so fast!!  The jury is still out on whether these are going to look good mounted…much less work as I hope!  
 

Fingers crossed!!

[Overworked724]

Futzing with the rudder. Opened up the gap for the pintles a bit, drilled in the pin holes, and prepared the false keel section.  I’ll remove it and start fitting the pintles. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The saga continues…plate making coming next. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Overworked724

[CPDDET]

Beautiful as always. 

[Overworked724]

3 hours ago, CPDDET said:

Beautiful as always. 

In truth…I’m posting my little successes on the easy stuff as I build up my courage to attack the copper plating. 
 

I’m chicken. 😖

Edited December 14, 2021 by Overworked724

[Overworked724]

Still futzing with the rudder.  Prepared all the pintles.  Dry fit with nails.  Used a manicure shaping tool to press in the wood in the rudder cavity to ensure a smooth fit with gudgeons. Looking fairly decent. Will use the rudder as it is to mark the gudgeons placement and get those prepared. 
 

Not sure how everyone else does it…but I really don’t trust myself in this part. But I am determined to ensure I can remove the rudder. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

I could have embedded the pins in the pintles. But I wanted some 'room' to play if things got finicky and the fit too tight/restrictive.  I can always replace the thinner wire with a 20G copper section which would fit perfectly in the pintle. 
 

Moving on…

Edited December 14, 2021 by Overworked724

[niwotwill]

Very nice Patrick. Can't wait to see the completed rudder with the P&G's you've done so masterfully. Couple things I like help on  1. Earlier on you detailed how you sandwiched brass to cut when its so thin I could go back and read the log but I'm lazy. Could you explain? 2. How thin is the brass for the P&G's?

 

Regards

Will

[Overworked724]

Hi @niwotwill Will,

 

If you go to post #123 in my log, your questions are directly addressed! 👍🏽

 

 

Hope that helps!  
 

(0.4mm thickness) (1/8” cherry wood sections as sandwich bread 😁 ). Please note the correction.  I'm sure this would work with sheets that are 1/16", but did a quick remeasure and find that sandwich sections (cherry wood) was closer to 1/8'.  Either way...very easy to cut.  One thing to keep in mind is to line up the grain of the wood with the direction of the cut for the strips...cuts much easier I think.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Overworked724

[Overworked724]

Took a lesson from my own advice and decided to do a little side project. Ladders. Last time I made one I really didn’t have any idea what I was doing. This time, I’m operating with a few more brain cells of experience. 😁

[Overworked724]

Ladder lumber made. In the meantime, got my cheapie copper bearings in the mail to replace the other cannon balls. 

Much more appropriate fit…at twice the size!!!

 

 

[Overworked724]

Made my first boxwood deck ladder. Not bad!  Making my hatchway ladder. Hoping I can get a bit better symmetry between the two sides. 
 

 

 

 

 

[niwotwill]

looking good patrick.

[CPDDET]

Very nice 👍

[JJUSNRET]

GREAT help to those of us who are doing this the first time.  techniques used here will absolutely help in building any model.  I am building CW Morgan and jus purchased Syren and I will absolutely use what I leaned here.  THANK YOU!!!

[Overworked724]

2 hours ago, JJUSNRET said:

GREAT help to those of us who are doing this the first time.  techniques used here will absolutely help in building any model.  I am building CW Morgan and jus purchased Syren and I will absolutely use what I leaned here.  THANK YOU!!!

@JJUSNRET JJ, you made my day!  😁 Really appreciate the kind accolade. And I assume you are Navy by your username. I was regular USAF (NCO), from a huge Navy family.  I still know more military than civilians.
 

 🇺🇸 Thank you for your service to our beloved country!!

[Overworked724]

Finished up the other ladder. Yes, some folks mentioned the ladders are a bit ‘thick’. What the hell.  😁 It’s better than my first ladder I made for the Sultana.  
 

 

Also pre trimmed and test fit the gudgeons. I made the decision to trim the gudgeons not to extend beyond the stern piece. Yes, it’s a deviation but not a big one. A lot of brigs (US brigs included) in this era did not wrap the gudgeons out beyond the stern piece. 
 

It also saved me from trying to bend around the ‘fat’ planking which I did not sand level with the stern piece. So…lesson learned. 
 

 

 

 

The fit looks good…and if I mount them as accurately after coppering, the rudder will both functional and removable. 👍🏽
 

 

Moving on….

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Overworked724

[Gahm]

These are really nice looking gudgeons! 

 

Thomas

[abelson]

Rudder looks great. I like the beefy look of the ladder. I made my midship boarding ladders thicker too. Used 3/32”x 1/8” basswood strip. And, yes it is difficult to get symmetry. FYI, I found that the carronade tackles interfere with the ladders or vice versa. This is not obvious from the plans. Keep up the good work.