How to install pedestal stands

[LMDAVE]

I'm coming close to finishing my first wooden ship build. I like the look of the brass pedestal stands, and have to admit, wasn't too sure how the boat's keel stays in the little slots. Then my parts came in.

 

Am I suppose to drill pilot holes in the bottom of the finished boat keel to take these screws from the bottom? If so, now it makes sense how it's held on the slots. Just hard to get myself to put screws in the bottom out of fear of splitting the keel.

 

Edited May 10, 2013 by LMDAVE

[Modeler12]

Absolutely yes, drill pilot holes.

I would suggest that you try this first on a piece of scrap that is about the same thickness as the keel of your model. Preferably of the same kind of wood. The drill bit should be about the diameter of the 'root' of the screw. Meaning the thickness of the screw without the thread. The idea is that the screw thread should be biting into the wood and the body of the screw has clearance.

There are tables for this but they are intended for 'wood screws' and what you show looks like a deck screw or sheetrock screw.

Again experiment.

[Bahamas Diver]

I agree with everything Jay said.  If you do not drill a pilot hole you can too easily split the wood at the keel.  Also you need to be very careful that you drill perfectly straight or you risk setting the ship at a slight angle.  If you can use a drill press to this all the better.  The other thing you should do is to drill a countersink hole into the underside of the base so that the screw head is below the bottom of the base.  This way the base does not wobble.  Lastly, I get some felt (you pick the color) and use white glue to glue it to the underside of the base.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Bahamas Diver

[Bob the boatbuilder]

I fully agree with David, and also that you should practice on something other than the actual model first. Having said that, I still managed to slightly split the first one I did (not too badly glad to say), so from then on I plan ahead - not normally my speciality - and glue reinforcing pieces inside the hull, either side of the keel, where the supports will finally go. This is easy when done early on, before any planking is done. By doing this, and making the pilot hole very slightly on the large side, I have not had any disasters since. Not until the next one, anyway!

  Hope this helps, 

 

Bob.

[LMDAVE]

Thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely plan ahead on my next build.

 

The trick is now finding a suitable angle for drill into the keel on a finished model.

[Chazz]

This discussion is right on, but I'd like to emphasize the thinking ahead part...to the extent of drilling the pilot holes just about as soon as the frames are mounted to the keel.  This way its easier to turn the hull to the angle needed to drill, you can add any reinforcement needed, and you can repair any damage at a convenient time.

I also feel that sheet rock screws are better and less likely to cause damage than regular wood screws. 

After all, you don't really need much to hold the hull to the baseboard.

In a little extension of the mounting idea, I've always found it convenient to mount the hull to a dummy baseboard early as I said.  It then acts as a handy stand to hold the model upright, and as a handle as well.  I've even mounted a similar piece topside using the holes to be used for the masts, for a handle and to stand the model upside down, though I have found less use for this.

Further, instead of a keel clamper, I put two battens down the sides of the dummy baseboard, sized to fit my Panavise mounted on a base large enough to support the model when it is tilted on its side. While I have done this mostly with solid models, POB to be mounted on pedestals work fine too.

Even if the model is to be mounted in a cradle rather than on pedestals, the holes for the dummy baseboard mounting are easily fixed.

 

Chazz

[Modeler12]

Thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely plan ahead on my next build.

 

The trick is now finding a suitable angle for drill into the keel on a finished model.

If you can turn your model completely up-side-down it would be simpler to locate the spots for the two holes and drill as close to vertical as you can. Of course, the question then is how to hold the model in that position. You might consider having someone hold it as steady as possible.

The other way is to hold the model sideways and do the same thing. Either way you have to make sure the drill goes in perpendicular to the keel.

I would not worry too much about the hole through the baseboard. In fact, you might want to drill that hole a bit larger as long as the brass pedestal covers it. You want to have plenty of clearance because to accurately locate and drill the pilot hole in the keel is difficult and any deviation can be taken up with the base hole.

 

Once this is all done, I would agree with Chazz that 'you don't really need much to hold the hull to the baseboard'.

But if you mount the model early in the game (like I did and I also used a 'working' base) there could be a lot of twisting and sideways movement while handling the hull. It is the sideways forces that can cause problems.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2013 by Modeler12

[LMDAVE]

OK, went through with it today and here's the end result. Not bad, but not perfect. The forward pedestal has a slight lean, and (not shown) the overall perpendicular lie of the ship has a very slight lean to the starboard side. Now that everything is in and snug, I don't want to take the screws out, so the small imperfection I can live with....At least I say that for now.

 

My only concern now is working on the remainder on the boat. I need to cover the stand so I don't accidentally get CA glue drops on it or paint. I really just have mainly rigging and shrouds left, but have proabbly a month or so of work left.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

[russ]

The pedestals and display board look very good. The main thing is it is secure on the pedestals.

 

Russ

[LMDAVE]

Thanks Russ, yes they are very snug.

[mtaylor]

Dave,

Haul the sails slightly off center to port and tell folks who notice the lean that "she's carry plenty of sail and wind is a bit sharp"....  

 

Look great on the pedestals.  For protection, wrap the entire base in Saran Wrap (or the plastic wrap of choice.  Works a treat.

[Harryshipyard]

lmdave

hi. I know this thread is years old, but I am wondering what was finally used to fix through the wood base, up through the pedestal and into the keel. I am on my first build and have the exact same problem. The Amati pedestals have a hole through the centre, presumably to run a narrow screw through the base, through the pedastal and into the keel. Screw needs to be about 40mm long but as the keel is only 5mm wide, and the thinnest screw I can find is 3mm diam, there’s no way I can attempt to fix in that way. 
Thoughts appreciated.

[Mercator]

I use lamp filial if the keel is not wide enough I have cut/filed a grove in the filial to adapt the keel. They are brass so not too hard. Another solution is to use stainless or brass wire and use epoxy.

[Roger Pellett]

Very small diameter machine screws can be purchased from wholesale houses that supply gunsmiths.  There are several ways to make use of these.

 

First Choice:  Make your own pedestals and thread the top and bottom.  Drill a hole through the keel and insert the screw from inside the hull into the pedestal.  Insert a second screw up from the bottom of the base to secure the pedestal.

 

Second choice:  Drill a hole with a diameter slightly larger than that of the machine screw into the keel from outside the hull.  Spray the screw with PAM.  Coat the screw with epoxy and push it into the hole in the keel.  When the epoxy is cured, back the screw out.  The pedestal can now be mounted using the threads in the keel.

 

Third choice:  Same as the second choice except drill the hole to the correct diameter to accept a tap corresponding to the machine screw thread.  This will work with quality hard woods; Boxwood, Pear, Maple, etc.  Not kit supplied MDF,  basswood, etc.

 

Unlike wood screws, machine screws have parallel shanks, so do not put loads on the keel that cause it to s.plit.

 

Roger

[drjeckl]

Gents,  I asked basically asked the same questions in a recent topic over in the Model Tips and Tricks and Making Jigs forum.

Bottom line, that topic helped me but I was forced to go another route.  I am planning to update that topic with what I went with very shortly, but the skinny is that I epoxied standard wall anchors (size 4-6-8 x 7/8") into the false keel, split the real keel into three sections (around the two anchors)  and used flat head phillips wood screws (size #6 x 2 1/4") to come up from the bottom of the display board, through brass pedestals and get secured into the wall anchors.  I may have gotten lucky, but I got a 90 degree secured fit.

 

Keep an I out for my follow-up post in that forum.