King of the Mississippi by Bob Fraser - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Scale 1/80 - 1st Build

[Bob Fraser]

Thanks for the explaination. Hadn't thought of hogging as to why the fore and aft are braced together, but it's fairly obvious when it's pointed out! 

AL also use the same term for the loop of rope formed through the eyes on the brass hoops on the smokestacks that tensions them to the deck.

I take it that proper turnbuckles were attached to the posts and deck to tighten the rope (wire or maybe actual chain?) to its proper tension?

Although on my model the angles at the tops are slightly out so they aren't quite in the straight line that I assume they, and the connecting ropes, should be now that I know what they are for, on the drawings that AL supply there is an inward angle at the stern for the rope that is run continuously from an eye forward on the lower deck threaded through holes in  the hog posts.

AL aren't (weren't) known for their accuracy of their models!

[Cathead]

Bob, if you want to learn more about hog chains, you might consider watching a short segment of a talk I gave on steamboat design earlier this year (shameless self-promotion alert!). The whole thing may be of interest, but at 25:05 I specifically discuss hog chains with a few diagrams and photos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj7yzkd9geg). Google will also turn up some useful basic information.

 

Hog chains were solid iron rods, not wires, ropes, or chains. And they should run in a straight line parallel to the longitudinal axis (or at 90º to it in some vessels that needed lateral support, which wouldn't really be true for yours), not bend inward anywhere. Though, as you say, absolute historical fidelity isn't really a concern here so it may or may not be worth correcting that. Also, they weren't anchored above the deck (as to an eyebolt) but down into the hull or at least through a deck beam.

 

So, for example, here is a longitudinal chain on the Arabia (note the turnbuckles):

 

And here are a couple lateral chains:

 

 

If you're interested in making the hog chain assemblies a bit more accurate without too much fuss, I'd suggest two changes: (1) shorten the posts so the chain runs roughly parallel to and just above the surface of the upper deck and (b) run them all the way down to the main deck (if you can) and just insert them into a hole in the deck rather than to any eyebolts. For example, here are longitudinal chains on the Bertrand:

 

 

There was more than one arrangement possible, but they really shouldn't go as high as the kit has them.

[Bob Fraser]

No shame in self promotion!  Great explain and great video. More views of the hog chains on the Bertrand from approx 1:36.

Did you use crimps to simulate the turnbuckles?

I'm not trying to make an historically accurate model of any particular ship, but one that at least is reasonable, and where adjustments or additions can be made (without ripping the whole thing apart!), I'm prepared to at least try and do them. Great learning curve!

Looking at the "America"  which seems to be quite representative of a lower Mississippi river boat about 1900, it looks like -

1) at the highest the aft post should be cut to about 10 - 12 feet high, with the rod running down through the lower deck at about 60 degrees

2) an extra stern bracing beam needs to be added each side in line with the wheel arms extending aft to the deck end from about 8 feet above the upper deck, (which the rod will run down extending from the aft post)

3) maybe remove the central post altogether, which seems to be more representative the more photos you look at of this type of boat, or

4) the central and fore posts cut to give a rod angle of approx 15 degrees, the rod extending through the decks to level with the foremost railing newel.

5) There's also a cross truss between the aft posts and also the bracing beams.

I'm using the figures in the photo give a size representation for heights.

Looking closely at the high res version of this photo there are also the cross braces visible, presumably because there appears to be no structure except for the engine room under the next deck.

 

Thanks again,

Bob

[Cathead]

Yeah, you can't go too wrong basing your upgrade on that image. Looking closely, I think she may even have two sets of parallel longitudinal chains, one above the other. And I agree, she does have a couple lateral chains, especially visible around the boiler area.

 

The lateral chains aren't necessarily due to a lack of structure between the decks; that was true of many smaller sternwheelers. They're just part of the inherent need to stabilize a lightly built flexible design without a lot of heavy timber bracing. In particular, this vessel (like many) has "guards", the extension of the main deck out beyond the hull. They're relatively narrow here, but they're there. Those areas were commonly used for cargo storage, you can see piles of lumber for example, so there was a lot of weight on an extended deck with almost no structural support. So the lateral chains are part of the solution to placing all that weight out there beyond the hull. In contrast, the AL design has almost no guard width, which is why I suggested it may not have needed lateral chains (though adding a few would still give  visual interest and wouldn't be "wrong").

 

If there's one truth in steamboat design, it's that things were done lots of different ways and there was no one specific design. These didn't come out of Royal Navy dockyards with standardized plans. So you can't go too wrong picking an image/prototype that you like and using that as a base for whatever improvements you want to make.

[Bob Fraser]

Thanks Cathead. I just needed some confirmation before going on with the upgrade! Not sure about putting in the second set, but will look at the viability of putting them in (forward of the existing ones) and also putting in some lateral ones.

Going to remove the central post for definate though.

Updates in a couple of days!

[Cathead]

Personally, one reasonably accurate set seems sufficient to me, since pure accuracy isn't attainable in this kit and one was very common. You'll improve the looks a lot just by getting the one set right.

[Bob Fraser]

Yesterday afternoon.

OK, here we go - Deep breath and let's start ripping things out! 😱

First job, removal of the centre posts. As these aren't set into the lower deck, but just glued, so a tight grip with a pair of flat pliers, quick twist and - 

Gone! Just like pulling a tooth - Ouch!

 

Next, using a scalpel to cut new plank ends and to slice and lift the old planking - 

Centre upper deck planks and deck plank gone 😨

 

Planking replaced! 😂  and new fake treenails applied.

 

I didn't do the underside of the decks like this as access, and the ability to see, is very limited, so the holes were filled with offcuts of dowel.

After a sanding down, off to the the outside workspace for oiling to match colours as the smell affects the wifes asthma.

This morning - end result - 

 

Not too bad a match a little time, and hidden mostly by new railings, and you won't know! 😇  This also shows the new cut sizes of the hog chains, fore and aft. Aftermost is 2 people high.

Painted the smokestack, hereafter called the Chimney as I've learned thanks to @Cathead and his goldmine of info, but have been requested to leave the fancy parts of the chimney crown the original bronze colour.

Also added is the extra brass band around the base into the slot on the deck cowling for decoration.

The upper bands on the chimney itself - decoration, to help stop chimney expansion and rupture by heat, points for rigging eyes, joint bands to extend the chimney height, or a multiple of these uses? 🤯  Now to amend the stern with the extra strengthening braces for the hog chain rods

 

Cheers for now,

Bob

 

[Cathead]

Great work! I love it when a model becomes one's own through tweaking. As to the chimney band question, chimneys were built from metal sheets coiled into hoops, which could only be made so wide, so the regular bands likely reflect the joints between those. On the photo of America that you shared above, you can clearly see the regular spacing all the way up. I'm not sure about the exact function of the thicker bands, your suggestions all seem plausible. 

[Bob Fraser]

Looking around to find out what size turnbuckles, their placement and connections to decks for the hog chains I found this website Steamboats.com to have lots (and lots!) of extremely useful photos of "at the time".

The photos are in high res, so using ctrl and + together you can zoom in to see some incredible detail.

 

The turnbuckles are, in almost all cases on large boats, where the cage is screwed on the actual hog chain, fitted at head height at the fore, centrally fore and aft, and about 3 feet up on the upper deck paddle truss.

[Cathead]

I strongly suggest this resource as well: https://www.uwlax.edu/murphylibrary/collections/special-collections/steamboat-photographs/

[Bob Fraser]

Thanks @Cathead I've copied this into my riverboat resources thread with full credit 😀

 

Yesterday was a productive one.  After looking through innumerable photos of the hog posts (see above!) I realised that they were mostly square, with dimensions dependant on ship size.

 

So, back to the tooth pulling.

And out they came.

 

Squared off the holes to give a better for-aft alignment and put new posts in.

You may notice the triangular mark at the deck edge. This is for the new sternpost to suport the new stern trusses.

 

 

Cut out and

 

New stern post supplied reaching to the same height as the aft hog post with the post recessed into the deck to simulate going through to the hull framing.

 

Putting it all together with two new stern trusses to the tailboard it looks like this.

 

 

I used drilled holes and cut brass pins to simulate bolting of these pieces to each other and the deck.

 

This is how she looks now with chimney and steam escapes placed.

 

Having done this my advice to anyone watching and thinking of doing the same - hindsight is great!

Start this job early, after the main hull and cabins are finished.

1) Don't yet plank the upper decks!

2) Build and place the passenger cabins

3) Have the hurricane deck, passenger cabins and Texas deck placed but not glued

4) Decide the size of the wood to use for the hog posts. To create mine I used 2 x 62cm lengths of 4mm x 4mm for the diagonals and stern upright, 1 x       62cm length of 5mm x 4mm for the stern trusses from my store box. What you need will depend on how long you decide to cut the pieces, and the angle of the holes.

Mine came out at (2x) 10.2cm for the fore, 13.3cm for the aft, 11.7cm for the sternpost, 11.7cm for the lower truss and 14.2cm for the upper truss. Yours will pobably be different.

5) Square off the holes. I found that to get a good horizontal alignment (all hog posts and sternpost need to be in a straight line) and to pass the steam pipes I had to square them inboard of the original holes, but also check alignment with the tailboard, as the trusses have to be clear of the paddle arms. Start your cutting on the Texas deck, and angle / shape to meet the hurricane deck hole. Place the post through to the hurricane deck and mark around the hole where it meets. Remove the Texas deck and repeat the cutting to size, eventually place the Texas deck back to check for alignment and angle. Because you haven't planked the deck yet you don't have to be too neat!

6) Repeat 3 more times for the other fore and aft holes. Some larger ships had the central post, and some even doubled up on the fore / aft posts, but the central post is a personal choice now. I chose not to put one on.

7) DO NOT CUT your posts or trusses to size yet. The stern post size and truss lengths depend on the height you cut your aft hog post, as the sternpost is the same height as the hog post. This is best done once the build is much further on and before the main deck bracing and fencing is done. Remember to account for cutting angles!

 

The hog chain (iron rod) runs from the sternboard over the truss to the forepost meeting the main deck at the base of the foremost fencepost. Drilling the holes may be easier if done before glueing the upper decks in place.

 

Caveat - you do this at your own risk!  I did find a couple of photos, pages 3 and 4 at steamboat.com that show a very similar layout as AL give.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob Fraser]

Thanks for looking in and the likes.

Nothing done yesterday, but some thought about the next move. After some consideration I've decided to leave the railings to as close to last as possible to give me some manoevering room without snapping stuff off.

So, first up today was fitting the eyes to the chimneys and decking for their tensioning lines. Then fitting the crossmember - the upper arm ends need shortening as the crown has a spike the goes centrally getting in the way.

I've installed only one line just now.

I've tried to simulate wire crimps at each end.

 

What do you think - a little large close up, or ok at the viewing distance?

 

Cheers,

Bob

[Cathead]

I think they're quite good in context.

[Bob Fraser]

Thanks Cathead. I've raided the wifes bead store for small tubes which are crimped and painted black.

[Bob Fraser]

Chimney rigging done, and added lateral tensioners.

Hog chains done.

Added a lateral chain at the aftmost diagonal, and a crossbeam on the sternposts. The rope was painted matt black to remove the turns, to look like iron rods, an idea stolen from @Cathead - Thanks! These were set into grooves to take them over the diagonals as on many steamers photos show they were bent to shape.

Many of them had a criss-cross of rods overhead open decks giving much more lateral and fore-aft strengthening, but I've decided not to show that as it tended to be on the smaller more open ones.

 

Next steps, the fencing and then tackle the foredeck.

 

Cheers for now,

Bob

[Bob Fraser]

So some progress, but sloooow!

Added the two fore stairwell surround railings

 

And started on the railings

 

Here's where it gets slow.  Each and every one of the uprights is a different height 😞  Measure, cut and micro sand to a tight fit.

Note to future self - maybe cut out the aligned holes on all decks and use one full height piece, measuring on the upper deck to get the post height right as I'm sure they'll still be all different 😱

 

The lower and upper handrails are slitted to take the P.E. railings and hold them steady. The wood not being the best and not exact along it's full length it does damage the edge slightly.

Drillhead dropped to the correct height so no deed for lowering, the brass calipers as a fence aligned at the right depth and straight, the wood can just be slid through. Just realised this was done a year ago! Time flies.

And of course

Cooper the cat had to help.  Given his name maybe I should get him making some barrels 🙂

 

Cheers for now.

Bob

[Bob Fraser]

Slow going, just some more railings added, so no more pics.

I've found that 6 out of 8 of the oddly curved precut stern rails are missing 😱  🤬  so I'm going to have to make them myself.

They're marked up ready to cut and shape - wish me luck!

Cheers,

Bob

[bobandlucy]

My cat is not allowed in the hobby room! 

 

I like that drill press you've got. It looks like it can be used for milling operations as well.

 

bob

[Bob Fraser]

Been a while - apologies.

Had to make the front curved rails, as only one was present. Used this as a template to draw round and cut out.

 

Original, roughed out with slot, brass railings in slot ready for top piece and trial fit before final shaping.

 

Added one of the curved front rails

 

Cheers for now,

Bob

[bobandlucy]

Railings look good, Bob!

[Bob Fraser]

So - after a year and a half of upheaval, (whole house redecorated, some rooms twice, more cupboards and shelves built into all rooms and kitchen, craft room for SHWMBO, garden levelled and tiered, grass replaced with astroturf and polytunnel greenhouse installed), I've finally got somewhere to work again, albeit the dining table!

 

During this break the ships cat has been hard at work re-arranging the tensioning rigging for the Chimneys.

The captain examines the damage - 8 ropes cut!

Says "You should fire that ships cat!"

Ships cat, Cooper, in the background not impressed, his new first mate, Styx, checks out the ongoing repairs.

Rope repairs done, and railings refixed that came off whilst repairs were being done.

Next job - more railings. 12 made up for the stern and other side, ready for exact fitting as each upright is fitted.

Uprights measured and 5 different heights for 11 of them due to the curve of the decks.

 

More soon!

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Bob Fraser

[bobandlucy]

Hi, Bob! Was wondering what had become of this project.

 

Your new cat looks a lot like mine. Maybe new cat rules should come with the house remodel!

 

I remember well toiling over those railings. . .

 

Bob

[Cathead]

Welcome back! Glad to see you haven't given up. Love me some cats.

[Bob Fraser]

Thanks guys, life in my house ad the needs of otherfamilymembers gets in the way a lot, but she was staring at me ad the other thingshave quietened down for now, so onwards we go! 👍

[Jerry Berenson]

Bob I am currently building the King of the Mississippi…..how did you bend the railings around the stern onto the head posts at the paddle wheel . The 1.5 x 3 mm sapelli continues to snap. Did you soak them in hot water and if so how long? Thanks for any help. Jerry

[Bob Fraser]

Hi Jerry.

Sorry, I'm not much help.

 

It looks like I did a Captain Kirk and cheated - it's so long back I can't recall if I made a mistake, or probably just decided that the 1.5 was too thick for the railings to start with.

Part 90 is 1.5mm x 3mm. Scale 1:80 -> 1mm = 80mm, 1.5mm = 120mm = 4.7" approx thick.

I used 0.5mm x 3mm (1:80 = 40mm = 1.5" approx thick) which seems more appropriate for the planked railings - even farm fences aren't as thick as AL want to to use!

 

To bend the wood Al use I have used a plank bender that puts indents - cuts - onto the inside of the plank for the radius of the curve needed. Unfortunately these will still be visible once bent.

I have also made a pinboard with the radius and hot soaked 'til pliable enough and put it into the curve until dry enough to keep its shape and test fit.

You could try one of the other guys who've finished their build tho - @bobandlucy is the most recent.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Bob Fraser

[bobandlucy]

Jerry, I soaked the wood in boiling water, if I recall correctly, about 15 minutes, then used an electric plank bender with the form provided with the bender. You can get these at Model Expo.

 

https://modelexpo-online.com/search.asp?keyword=electric+plank+bender

[Jerry Berenson]

Thank you both for your ideas and help. Jerry 

[Bob Fraser]

Building continues - delay due to lack of pics.

First up the second deck side railings.

I made a mistake - nothing new there then you might say!

When I measured the height of the uprights I measured vertically and forgot they are angled inwards 😒

Fortunately I had only cut the one length, so each was measured with eyeball MK2 - glasses 😄

All the railings had been made up previously so it was a case of line up the posts and fit them in.

Then came the stern railings The central two uprights and single railing were fitted into place to give, as much as possible, a central single rail instead of the two in the instructions.

After that the curved sections to connect to the sides.  Once the 4 curves were selected from the box the were roughly shaped and angled to fit don't forget that this is not as AL intended!

Right to left - As is after preliminary shaping, marked for grooving, grooved using a pointed diamond file, flat pointed file and the corner of a razor saw to cross the grain, and finally the PE fitted in.

Finished items fitted - just noticed I need to adjust that right hand one, it's dropped, as has one one the side!

Doesn't look like much but it was close to 8 hours.

Once the drops are fixed a touch of sanding and then oil the bare woods to match the old ones.

 

Upper deck railings after that - don't think I'll be using the PE work. Each deck will be different so i've got something in mind, just need to think about working it out.

Thanks for following along, more mods on the bow to come to individualise the build further later on

Cheers!.

[Cathead]

12 minutes ago, Bob Fraser said:

Doesn't look like much but it was close to 8 hours.

That's as good a motto for this hobby as any! Nice progress.