HMS Victory by Emmet - Corel - 1:98 - as she appeared after Trafalgar in 1805 - Second wooden ship build

[Emmet]

Hi Keith

Boy this is hairy.  Using Corel's drawing, from midships as determined along the upper deck it rises about 9 mm in about 170 mm ( where my frames start to rise) or about a 3 degree rise.

Bear in mind that the frames are not showing this.  According to the frames, from the 6th to the 5th frame it rises 1 degree. After that the rise is 5 degrees then 12.7 degrees then 4.5 degrees and then 11 degrees. I feel a little crazy. I can make it right but it is weird.

I am thinking I will make it about a 3 degree rise from midships, increasing from 1 degree as in 5 to 4 and then 1 degree after that. That would amount to a total rise of 3 mm in about 170 mm.  I will start by lowering the frames but I will be looking hard at other builds first. The frames do have a curve in them so I will have to maintain the roundness.  I must be sure to stay within a dimension that works for the distance between the beakhead platform and the upper deck. I am guessing that a 3 degree rise will be too much.  I hope you can make sense out of this.  I have had tougher problems than this but this is wild.  Heavy on the use of Trig.

[clearway]

the tranverse curves atop the frames is the deck camber and should be left- if the midship frames are right use them as a datum- also check the height at the beak with the bulkhead right at the front - hope that makes sense- however just insert the frames and adjust by eye till they "look right" compared with other builds you see- this stuff can drive you nuts at times!!

[Emmet]

You are right about nutty.  I do think I understand what you are saying.  I spent some time going over it as you can see from above.  I will have to check these numbers in the morn after I have "tea".

Thanks Keith.

[clearway]

tea or coffee always helpsEmmet- just make sure you maybe havn't got any stern and bow frames mixed up, as with her being bluff bowed they can look very similar bar the height,

 

Keith

[Emmet]

All concerns are more than welcome.  While the numbers are correct I am checking all possibilities before going ahead.  At this point in time I am aiming towards making #1 space for the roundhouse vertical size to be 23 mm.  Meanwhile I have to be sure the lopsided #2 and #3 frames are not lowered too much.  They cannot stay the way they are.  The upper deck simply cannot fit.  I can hardly believe they are so far off.  That is why I am checking everything possible. I have fun story about a visit to London to recount at another time-stay tuned.

[Emmet]

All concerns are more than welcome.  While the numbers are correct I am checking all possibilities before going ahead.  At this point in time I am aiming towards making #1 space for the roundhouse vertical size.

[Emmet]

[clearway]

and so it begins Emmet😉

 

Keith

[Emmet]

I had to trim both sides of the lower deck because it was oversized and would be in way of planks.

 

 

[clearway]

You got there in the end with the frames Emmet i see- give the deck a sanding and let it oxidise for a few days- colour sometimes alters- for example walnut comes out of the box an ugly chocolate brown and mellows to a lovely honey colour- on the real ships though they were painted red to hide the blood!

 

 keith

Edited May 16, 2020 by clearway
typo

[Emmet]

Red a preferred color hmmm!

[Emmet]

Dd the 1/2 gun holders.  The lack of a profile of them in the drawings made it difficult to figure out how deep they should go so I

set them back 1/8" or 3-4 mm

[clearway]

better too many than too few Emmet are you going to put a little piece of deck in ehere the entryport goes into the hull? i wish i had🤪

 

Keith

[Emmet]

I am currently thinking card stock. I can shape it to the way I want the stairs and it is easy to glue but I was thinking about a little deck as well.  Glad you mentioned it.

[Emmet]

While I am still busy with some lower deck work  I went ahead and did the bow fillers.  I am waiting for a Dremel vise I hope will help with certain jobs.

I saw where Jpett was hesitant about power sanding so I as a bit cautious. I did buy some 4x4 balsa for mistakes I might make but so far my only planned use is for making a little boat for the La Nian and the Santa Maria.

At any rate I realized I could use my belt sander after some fiddling around with a plane and using some curve instruments I have.  I did some hand sanding with 150 to finish.  I gave my son my table sander and wondered if I would ever use the belt sander again.  But here I am in the shipyard.  I should say that I did the sanding in my garage and the belt sander has a good vacuum.

 

[clearway]

looking good emmet- i do all my sanding outside for the same reasons (means no hull construction in winter months though i am looking into fitting a woodstove in one of the outbuildings for messy sanding/spraypainting jobs during bad weather). For tapering my planks i use a small surfoam, but did use coarse sandpaper wrapped around a piece of wood for years.

 

Keith

[Emmet]

I'll be darned. I have a surfoam and did not know it. It is with all of my planes.  I forget why I bought it.  A garage is something I do not have when I go south for the Winter.  That is one reason for the Santa Maria.

I have a question to ask you about the stern fillers.  the block they gave me seems huge compared to what is needed. I will let you now tomorrow.  I go to bed at Nine. Tht is 2 a.m. for you.

[Emmet]

Stern filler blocks supplied made me quite confused.  I wound up cutting one of them in half.

Wondering if I should make a rabbet cut. It does not look like there is enough material-Maybe a little rabbet and thinning of plank?

 

[clearway]

wierdddddd- i imagine the flat will be where the rudder head will be- these kits along with billings either dont bother with the rabbet or have a thin play overlay- the filler pieces at the stern will need a lot more fairing for the planking to swing up into the "tuck "- i waited until i got the timbers in for the bottom of the counter and laid a strip from there to a couple of frames further in till i got a smooth transition tweaking as i went.

 

Keith

[Emmet]

Working on a few things to understand jobs ahead.

I used angle irons to make ship keel plumb.  I needed to make sure that tips of frames were level.

I am not going to install the upper deck now. But I am going to put the deck beams in as I think it will strengthen the structure. 

[Emmet]

Hi Keith

the worst part of the stern fillers is the lack of instructions. then to boot they give you these massive hunks of balsa which really through me for a loop. It was difficult to realize how thin these things had to be.

[Emmet]

Ever changing techniques for planking.

Before I can proceed further I have to figure out how the stern galleries affect the planking of that area. It is confusing but it will work out.

 

 

 

[clearway]

the beast evolves more -i have a few good pics of the counter on my billings victory emmet and the counter on my hms terror though smaller is similar. dont forget follow the lead of the mainwale for planking run and taper the timbers to get the flow.

 

Keith

[Emmet]

I looked at your victory for the counters but your 1st page shows her at an advanced stage of building.  Your terror build is the same.

Let me check on main wale and it appears to me that until you get down below the lower guns there is no taper. After that yes.

[Emmet]

Just working on bending around stern.  Bow bending is fairly simple. The lime wood bends without a problem.  I am using the plank heater just to hold the bend and dry the wood at that point.

[clearway]

that is correct emmet for where the taper starts-however the planks did sweep up towards the stern- on terror started planking from where the ply former ended- to get the form of the sweep in the tuck lay a plank half way along the counter and let it rest naturally on the frames in a downward direction- will end up about half way round the bilge. the below pic shows the first planking going on after the ply formers had been added to the sides- the 3 strips away from the rest are the planking battens to show me where to run planks to and were removed when the planking got that far.

 

 

Keith

[Emmet]

Thaks Keith,

I think I understand.

I have portrayed what I think will be done when I get lower on the hull.

[clearway]

Hello Emmet, i think the slot in the sternpost above the clamp will be for the piece that forms the counter and planking should run to that- the planking on mine tucked under the lowermost ply former with the hole for the rudder in it- the small horizontal flat on your sternpost will most likely be where the rudder head goes if i have it figured right.

 

Keith

[Emmet]

That sounds good to me Keith. What confused me is the largest counter seems so oversize. It is bewildering when you get parts made that way. You can only think they use them for another model.  The Bow and stern fillers were the same.  I cannot believe I cut one of the supplied parts in two and it worked. I am trying to do the first planking as well as possible because I think the walnut boards will not bend like the lime pieces. I hope you are having a good day and thanks for looking in. 

[Emmet]

OK Keith maybe I have this figured out.  Here is a revision of the stern photo above.   The plank are supposed to stop at the counters.

Should the planks also be tapered a little here. The look of the planks also bugs me.  I so not seem to be getting an archer's bow from bow to stern i.e.

the middle does not seem to be below the plane of the ends.