paolo Posted June 27, 2020 #1 Posted June 27, 2020 I am working on a scratch model of Commissioner Hamilton's gunboat and have started rigging, using the attached drawing from the NMM. I have a very limited understanding of rigging practice and am puzzled by the function of the block and lines area circled in red. Presumably the line going behind the sail is attached to a pendant and can be tightened or loosened as required, but it looks to me that all that would do is lift the boom. What is it that I am missing? Any help gratefully received. Paolo bruce d 1 Quote
jwvolz Posted June 27, 2020 #2 Posted June 27, 2020 Could be a flag halyard. Jim Rogers, davyboy and mtaylor 3 Quote Joe Volz Current build: Model Shipways "Benjamin W. Latham" Completed builds on MSW: Caldercraft HMS "Cruizer" Caldercraft HMBV "Granado" Model Shipways "Prince De Neufchatel"
bruce d Posted June 27, 2020 #3 Posted June 27, 2020 3 hours ago, paolo said: What is it that I am missing? I see what you mean. It clearly goes either side of the sail yet the port side line seems to have no termination point. It can't be secured to the gaff boom because we can see that the lowest edge of the sail is behind the boom. ? Well, my comment doesn't get you closer to an answer but I will follow along to see what happens. mtaylor 1 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
bruce d Posted June 28, 2020 #4 Posted June 28, 2020 Totally by chance, another current thread may have come to the rescue. The thread 'Deck Layout Mermaid Cutter 1817' by Cabbie ... ... has images from the drawings of Phillip Parker King between 1817 and 1822. The second image in that thread I have pasted below: The block and line (whatever it is called) is present and better illustrated. It goes loosely under the boom and sail. Perhaps one of the more salty members knows the function of such a line, but I don't. HTH Bruce mtaylor 1 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
Cabbie Posted June 28, 2020 #5 Posted June 28, 2020 Evening Gents Could it be for a flag as per image, that will be the absolute best of my contribution. Cabbie bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence
bruce d Posted June 28, 2020 #6 Posted June 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Cabbie said: Could it be for a flag as per image Looks that way. I can't think of any other use, will watch for comments. mtaylor 1 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
paolo Posted June 29, 2020 Author #7 Posted June 29, 2020 Thanks to everyone for their comments and help. I think that I am going to take the coward's way out and omit this particular piece of rigging for now. Hopefully, one day I will get a eureka moment and then be able to complete this piece of rigging, knowing for sure what it is and what it does. bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 30, 2020 #8 Posted June 30, 2020 I agree, flag halyard. On the Harriet, tied off at the boom as in your Gunboat and in use. However, the flag would have to come down and go back up each time you tacked. On the Gunboat, if they took it to above the mainsheet that could be avoided. bruce d, Cabbie and mtaylor 3 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts
paolo Posted June 30, 2020 Author #9 Posted June 30, 2020 Seeing it on the Harried model does make it clear that it is a Flag Halyard and I have no further excuse for not finishing the rigging. I still find it odd that in the original drawing the lines go either side of the sail. Odder still that they would choose to rig it in such a way that they had to take the flag down and back up again each time they tacked. Another mystery of the sea I suppose as a non sailing landlubber. mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 30, 2020 #10 Posted June 30, 2020 Lightbulb moment. As far out as can still be reached from the deck. bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts
Cabbie Posted June 30, 2020 #11 Posted June 30, 2020 Nice diagram Craig but I haven't got a clue what you are suggesting. BUT no need to explain, you don't have enough time for me. On the first image they don't show the line on the other side of the sail. If it was done as in the Mermaid drawing there would need to worry about it for tacking? Chris mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 30, 2020 #12 Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Cabbie said: BUT no need to explain No problem, when you haul the flag up one side of the line (the one you pulled on) will be under tension. If the side under tension presses on the sail it will deform the sail or chafe or both. In the Mermaid example, if you hauled the flag up the starboard side of the sail the line to port would be the line under tension but it would be clear of the sail. However if you tacked the sail would then press against it. Meanwhile, my diagram only shows that when the boom is swung out the point where the line is tied off is still accessible from the deck. If as I suggested above, it was tied off above the mainsheet you would have to crawl out the boom to reach it. bruce d, Cabbie and mtaylor 3 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts
baskerbosse Posted October 9, 2020 #13 Posted October 9, 2020 I would suggest line goes on both sides of the sail without danger of damaging it. It is not a major line, and is not kept very tight, as it only holds the flag. Once the flag is up, it is astern of the sail, can therefore fly on either side of the sail and wouldn't be any cause of concern. Roger Pellett, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote
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