Cutty Sark by Bruma - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC

[shipman]

Apologies, Cirdan. Your post #33 points this out already.

 

A shame there are not more photo's of the Denny model, though what there are show the 'black' boats originally specified. The Denny shipyard completed building of Cutty Sark, so one would suppose they knew what was what?

 

Apologies also for appearing to muscle in on Bruma's log.

[Bruma]

15 hours ago, kirill4 said:

Good day,

have some doubts regarding position ( under name plate)and the way of securing hearts/ (not deadeyes) of standing parts of the stays to the hull compare to the Campbell drawings and his notes on the drawings...

and position of the middle rail in the kit looks wrong?

Well, you are right Kirill, this portion of the bow is not well represented by the kit. The space on top and below the middle rail seems to be too small. And I should have used hearts instead of deadeyes. The problem was that I wasn't able to build  small enough hearts, so I decided to use deadeyes instead. They are about 2 millimeters on diameter. I should have mentioned my poetic licence. Sorry.

That being said, the position is correct in my opinion. 

Can you please tell me something more about your doubt?

Since I am a bit ahead in the build compared to what I'm showing now, I doubt I can fix It, but still I am interested!

I really need to run and post more frequently to keep up with the build and fully benefit from the community feedback.

[Bruma]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Apologies also for appearing to muscle in on Bruma's log.

Apologies are not needed! 

I really enjoy this wonderful conversation, and I'm glad to be the humble host! Please keep going! 

🖖

[shipman]

I'm not entirely comfortable with the received wisdom that Campbell and his drawings and his sources are the last word.

 

SHOCK. HORROR!

[kirill4]

Good day Bruma,

I understood your difficulties with the hearts,

regarding position - if We  look at foto, than positions of lower hearts they are under letter of name plates, on the model picture they looks shifted too forward?

or it is just visual effect?

All the best !

[kirill4]

Good day shipman,

Unfortunately I have only this drawings of CS made by Campbell,which could be used for discussion /for  reffer to some details...would  be glad to find some another of such high detailed, but don't have ...

[Bruma]

11 hours ago, kirill4 said:

positions of lower hearts they are under letter of name plates, on the model picture they looks shifted too forward?

or it is just visual effect?

Ok Kirill, now I understand, thank you! 

And again, you are right, they are a bit too forward. This was the best compromise I was able to get with several constraints: 

deadeyes should have been smaller (1 millimeter) and this lead to have longer lanyards to keep proportions, and  the bow railing is too narrow. Moving them a bit forward allows to have a straight line from the anchor point. 

This is definitely a tricky area... 

Thank you!  

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

Much earlier in the log is a link to an important photo of the Cutty Sark:  https://viewer.slv.vic.gov.au/?entity=IE930286&mode=browse   

This may be one of the first modifications to her rigging after her days as a Tea Clipper (a relatively short period in her career due to the opening of the Suez Canal).   I found a photograph said to be Thermopylae early in her career (in a link from the Aberdeen Museum website with photos of her in many phases of existence all the way up to a shot of her being torpedoed), when she was rigged with four large sails on each mast and no extra yards.  I have doubts on this photo under sail (attribution wise) on a couple of points; There is  a 'triple' dolphin striker not seen on any other Thermie picture, There is no yellow rub strake where there should be one, There is an extra white painted strake below a white painted gun wale that the Thermie didn't have.  But the photo does show a common way to rig an early Clipper.  Many fine ships were rigged differently in each phase of their existence (the 'Big T' was bark rigged at one point), and I suppose that its fair to model a ship as she was at any phase ... there being no single "correct" configuration.  

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[shipman]

Worth a read if you haven't seen it before?

 

https://www.johnsankey.ca/willis.html

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

The Cutty Sark builder's specs (Willis) and the early photo support that she was built with split top sails, and modifications continued after that - with many ways to rig in the late 19th century.  It's all fascinating.

[shipman]

Just took delivery of Vol 2 of the Longridge tome and am happy to say it also includes the separate plates from VOL 1 😀

Hunting for Vol 2 I got the distinct impression it is relatively scarce.

First edition was 1933 and a 'limited re-issue' in 1949. (I have both)

The 'combined' volume was issued in 1975. The above plates are bound into the book at much reduced size.

 

The 'Underhill' library is curated by Dave Stevens. I contacted him to see if Underhill's research survives.

The library has nothing relating to the Cutty Sark; Dave assumes the drawings were a private commission and all material went to the customer (whoever that was).

For many years I think David MacGregor supplied the plans.

They are now sold by:- https://www.modelerscentral.com/plans/underhill-ship-plans/ship-model-plans-cutty-sark-uh/

I wonder if they inherited the Underhill research material?

 

One of the details I gleaned from the Willis specs was the 'monkey poop' was originally called the 'Liverpool Deck'. When did the monkey arrive?

 

Marco, if you go to the extravagance of that tiny chain I highlighted, please let us know what the link count is.

[Bruma]

Thank you both for the information provided! 

Aside from the single page posted by Shipman, the entire site is worth a reading, here you have the direct link to the main page:

https://www.johnsankey.ca/cuttysark.html

There are many links along the reading, all of them are really interesting! 

One of them in particular catched my attention. It is about the painting as proper evidence. 

Here it is:

https://www.johnsankey.ca/cuttysarkpaint.html

 

It states that, contrary to what is shown in many paintings, the Cutty Sark has always had only three foresails. 

This was one of my many doubts, since many models and paintings showed four of them. 

Now I’m a bit more confident in my choices.

 

Now, some updates:

 

Anchors stowing and bowsprit rigging

 

I decided to stow the anchors on the side of the hull. 

The anchor release mechanism is completely scratch built using copper and steel wires. 

Here you can see the anchors in their final position:

 

 

 

The release bar goes through the side of the hull, alongside the cathead, and it ends with a curved handle wrapped around the cathead. 

 

More details are also visible here:

 

 

 

The images also show details not present in the previous updates: the standing rigging of the bowsprit in a more advanced state.

Martingale backstays, bowsprit guys, inner and outer jibbom guys are now fitted. 

I have tried to rig them at my best, again, in some places, small deadeyes were used instead of heart in some places.

Somewhere else I used small iron rings, similar to the one now used on the real ship.

 

Talking  about hearts I was able to create my own hearts for the forestay. They are bigger and so easier to build compared to the one needed for the bowsprit. 

They are made out of plastic, carved, and painted with acrylics and oil. 

Here they are along the process, nearby the rollers for the fore topmast stay.

 

 

And here they are in their final position:

 

 

Unfortunately the sheaves on the cathead are not well represented. They are not present in the kit and I stupidly decided to add them once the catheads were already mounted and it was not that easy... This is just another chapter on the endless story about how many details add to the kit. The initial idea was to build it almost out of the box but “appetite comes with eating”...

Aside from that, I’m quite happy with the result. 

 

In order to fit the forestay and the topmast stay, the mast needs to be secured in place. I will talk about it in the next update. 

One of the hardest things was to secure the topmast stay. 

They are a single line, which starts from the forecastle, goes through the post shave, runs up to the foretop, goes back to the starboard shave and down to the forecastle again. Balancing tension, holding all in place was a hard time....

Generally speaking, all this area was quite tricky, but also greatly rewarding!  

Finally, an image of the bowsprit almost completed with the standing rigging:

 

 

Foot ropes are still missing and the rollers for the fore topmast stay are not completed. The outer chassis is missing, but it will arrive soon… 

 

I hope you like it, and I’ll see you next update!

Edited January 28, 2021 by Bruma

[Bruma]

53 minutes ago, shipman said:

Marco, if you go to the extravagance of that tiny chain I highlighted, please let us know what the link count is.

Ops, we were posting almost together, and I miss your question. 

Are you referring to the last chain I mentioned? 

If so, I hope I have answered your question at post #74.

If not, let me know! 

 

Marco

 

 

[Cirdan]

Does pt. 62 of the original specification by Willis (post 99 by shipman) suggest, that not only the lower masts, but all spars and yards were originally painted white?

 

see point 62: "Masts and Spars white last coat zinc". 

[shipman]

Cirdan, taking the Willis spec literally would imply everything (masts and spars) was intended to be white.

Well spotted. However, there are several elements in the spec which give the builders some leeway as to what was possible and or available. I can't imagine there was a shortage of white paint?

 

Marco, I must compliment your recent photography of your excellent progress, which to me is a revelation.

One observation.....your build is becoming so refined, it highlights your choice to proceed with the kits rail stanchions and string. I understand your motives, but imagine the difference wire and brass stanchions would have made.

Re the chain....I was refering to the 1:700 anchor chain highlighted in my post #79.

Looking at the chain around the bows......it looks the business !

[kirill4]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

....One observation.....your build is becoming so refined, it highlights your choice to proceed with the kits rail stanchions and string. I understand your motives, but imagine the difference wire and brass stanchions would have made.....

 

agree !!! :)))

[kirill4]

Dear Bruma ,

Buitiful progress! Looks Great!

[Cirdan]

2 hours ago, shipman said:

Marco, I must compliment your recent photography of your excellent progress, which to me is a revelation.

 

Yes, I agree too. After a long, hard day, I look at these photos and regenerate 🙂 That's exactly what I always wanted to achieve with my own build of this kit some time in future. And I'll shamelessly steal all the ideas from this build log 😄. Of course, I will always give the link to this thread.

[shipman]

I reckon a lot of this hobby is a form of therapy.

Sharing our thoughts and accomplishments is group therapy.

It's ok to be kind to ones self and to others.

Mostly 🤪

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

I'll second that.

[shipman]

see point 62: "Masts and Spars white last coat zinc". 

 

'Zinc white. A bright, white pigment composed of Zinc oxide. Zinc white is permanent, opaque, and nontoxic. It was known as a white compound since the Middle Ages but was rarely used as a pigment until 1834'

 

That goes with the Willis philosophy of specifying nothing but the best. Zinc white would have been 'state of the art' for him.

[Red Rhino]

Bruma: this is an amazing build log and your Cutty Sark looks incredible. I also really appreciate the other commentators, who have added so much valuable information. I plan on building my kit soon and this log will be invaluable. Thank you so much!

Dave

[Cirdan]

There is a model of the tea clipper Ariel made by I.W. Marsh, a friend of Donald McNarry and himself a very good modeller. The pictures show masts and yards painted in a colour which seems to be white or something like Grey (but only the lower masts, as far as I can see). I wonder if it could be this "white last coat zinc". The difference to the white color of the boats can be clearly seen.

 

https://www.charlesmillerltd.com/auction/lot/315-AN-EXCEPTIONALLY-FINE-196-SCALE-STATIC-DISPLAY-MODEL-OF-THE-FAMOUS-COMPOSITE-TEA-CLIPPER-ARIEL-ORIGINALLY-BUILT-BY-ROBERT-STEELE--CO-1865/?lot=13376&sd=1

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Cirdan

[shipman]

Mmmm. That white/grey/lilac colour certainly doesn't reflect the 'A bright, white pigment' dicription I introduced earlier.

Zinc white is relatively translucent, so the practice of using it as a top coat over a 'conventional' oil based white paint is sound practice.

One of its earliest recognised properties was as an anti-fouling medium (ie it would stay whiter longer).

[Bruma]

Thank you all for comments and likes! 

I really appreciate your participation to the build, regarding both the model and the history of the ship! 

 

 

On 1/28/2021 at 8:37 PM, shipman said:

it highlights your choice to proceed with the kits rail stanchions and string

You are right… I’m not satisfied with them too, but installing the new ones now is, sadly, almost impossible. Do you have the brass ones? Looking at the diagram provided by HisModels, it seems to me that the inner diameter for the railing is 1 mm, is it correct? If so, it might be still too big for my taste to justify the effort. It would be nice to see them side by side with the plastic ones. 

This is definitely one of the many problems of my model. Still, looking at the whole picture, I like the sense of lightness of the railing provided by the thin wire.

 

 

On 1/28/2021 at 11:03 PM, Cirdan said:

I look at these photos and regenerate

I do the same with pictures from other modellers! I like this kind of therapy, as someone else mentioned! 

 

 

On 1/28/2021 at 11:03 PM, Cirdan said:

That's exactly what I always wanted to achieve with my own build of this kit some time in future.

 

You will surely do better! 

 

On 1/30/2021 at 2:15 AM, Red Rhino said:

Bruma: this is an amazing build log and your Cutty Sark looks incredible. I also really appreciate the other commentators, who have added so much valuable information. I plan on building my kit soon and this log will be invaluable. Thank you so much!

Dave

Thank you, Dave and welcome aboard! I’m surely going to follow your build! 

 

 

Regarding the yards color… Well, I hope you are wrong Cirdan! I already paint mine in black! 😅

If more solid evidences of the “white version” should arrive, I’m going to act like a 96 times smaller Woodget, imposing my will and painting them in black just to satisfy my taste! 🤣

Aside from the jokes, this is a very interesting discussion, even if I personally think that colors and small fittings were constantly changed during the ship’s life, according to what was cheaper/more available.

[Cirdan]

3 hours ago, Bruma said:

You are right… I’m not satisfied with them too, but installing the new ones now is, sadly, almost impossible.

 

Don't worry. The overall impression of the model makes this small weakness almost disappear. 

[shipman]

Marco, hi.

I did buy the bow and stern etch from HisModels; they make a much better job compared to the iffy kit decals. What did you use to attach them?

I bought my stock of very small chain, stanchions and brass wire for railings from a very helpful chap in the Isle of Man who has since sadly passed away.

All that stuff is hidden away now; however, I'll go hunting for it tomorrow and photograph it and post it for you ASAP. I do recall I was impressed with these items, being fine and delicate; eminently suitable for the CS.

From what I can see on HisModel's site, they are identical.

I was very tempted to buy brass belay pins but when I realised they would disappear under rope coils, so couldn't justify the cost. Someone Stateside sells bumper packs of these at reasonable cost, but the P&P killed that for me. I see Willis specified steel pins so presumably they were painted black.

The rails and stanchions are another one of those items that bug me a little. Published descriptions often remark how the Clippers were treated like yachts by their owners (at least when new). For instance, the upper hull planking was planed, painted and polished, so the separate planks couldn't be discerned.

Well, if they went to all that trouble, then why not polished brass rails?

Photo's of CS, taken in Australia when she was by then plying the wool and general cargo trade clearly show them painted white.

But what about before?

[shipman]

As promised.......

 

1:96 single and 2 ball stanchions + railing wire + the 42 links per inch chain.

 

[Cirdan]

The Tudgay painting shows them (stanchions + rails) white. As John Sankey [see https://www.johnsankey.ca/cuttysarkpaint.html ]  pointed out, such paintings were often not too reliable, but as Willis was the owner of the painting we possibly can assume, that it is relatively accurate.

 

It is hard to say, if they were made of brass at the Denny model, as the only picture published in the net is not a very good one. 

 

Both, the Tudgay painting and the Denny model show the Cutty Sark in her early days.

 

Denny model: https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/1113791.html

 

Tudgay painting: https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/cutty-sark-194307#

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cirdan]

But,  as Marco shows the ship with the white sheer line, which it only had in Captain Woodget's time, one should be historically correct if the railing and stanchions are shown in white.