Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I read this somewhere else I believe.  I might do a bit more research concerning this if it can be found.  It might look super.

Remember she also have varnished main masts with white recesses and red bands......

 

What an eye catcher....

 

Rob

Rob, it always struck me as odd that the iron bands on Glory's masts were red, I imagine it was a deeper shade, perhaps vermilion. Then again her pump wheels were bright red, so....

As for her bowsprit, contemporary works appear to have the inner portion painted black, including her bands. Every description I've read of her is that she was a proud vessel of matchless beauty.

Meanwhile, here are a few more rare images I recently unearthed sleuthing rare publications. I found a long 5 page article on Glory's history, which included the Standard Oil photo from her starboard rear quarter, the SF dock scene and a painting. The other two are of Glory in 1912 being converted into a refrigerator factory and an internal scene of conversion itself. Finally from Refrigerator World is a brief article on the machinery installed. For a then 43 year old wooden vessel, she was one tough, durably constructed ship to bear all of this weight. I realize this last article has zero to do with modeling her in general but I felt you guys might appreciate it anyway.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional images

[rwiederrich]

Very interesting story and images.  Looks like they removed most of her canary equipement to make room for cold storage.

 

Very interesting indeed......She sure held up to all the mods she acquired over all the years.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Spent some time today fashioning all the stanchions for the poop cabin rail.

 

I first stripped the dowel stock I used for the  aft rail stanchions, by making a dowel reducing draw plate....that I ran the dowel through after I cut them in 1" lengths..put them in my dental handpiece and and ran them first through the sizer...then I went quickly to the handmade scribe/cutter I made for this purpose(Like the other one for the other stanchions).

 

Originally the dowel was too big and the joints broke...but once I reduced the dowel...it worked fantastic.

 

Here is the days work. First the finished cabin stanchion in comparison to the fantail stanchion.  A third of those will still need to be modified by way of cutting their head and feet to allow the proper cant to be achieved....then the rest will follow along vertically around the stern.

 

Note the height and size difference....?

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Next is an image of one stanchion still on its dowel.....note the reduced areas from the original dowel.  I cut off the excess top and bottom.

[rwiederrich]

I measured to make sure they were the correct height.   As the other stanchions...they are slightly bulkier then the prototype..but that is normal what one wants to prevent a fragile disaster from happening.  Still they are a good representation of the originals.

[rwiederrich]

And the collection of all........

 

It took me about 3 hours to make all of these...to include fabrication of the tooling(Cutter and reducer) prior to making them. 

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Very interesting story and images.  Looks like they removed most of her canary equipement to make room for cold storage.

 

Very interesting indeed......She sure held up to all the mods she acquired over all the years.

 

Rob

 

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Very interesting story and images.  Looks like they removed most of her canary equipement to make room for cold storage.

 

Very interesting indeed......She sure held up to all the mods she acquired over all the years.

 

Rob

Rob, considering they loaded 70 tons of refrigeration machinery, not even counting all the added piping and insulation into a near 45 year old vessel, she was one tough, ruggedly constructed vessel. That was July 2013. To think her underwater Hull was so sadly neglected that less than a Decade later she was so riddled with barnacles that she couldn't be saved? What a loss....

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Spent some time today fashioning all the stanchions for the poop cabin rail.

 

I first stripped the dowel stock I used for the  aft rail stanchions, by making a dowel reducing draw plate....that I ran the dowel through after I cut them in 1" lengths..put them in my dental handpiece and and ran them first through the sizer...then I went quickly to the handmade scribe/cutter I made for this purpose(Like the other one for the other stanchions).

 

Originally the dowel was too big and the joints broke...but once I reduced the dowel...it worked fantastic.

 

Here is the days work. First the finished cabin stanchion in comparison to the fantail stanchion.  A third of those will still need to be modified by way of cutting their head and feet to allow the proper cant to be achieved....then the rest will follow along vertically around the stern.

 

Note the height and size difference....?

 

Rob

Rob, my wife Peggy is amazed at the delicate work you're doing! Installed, these will look incredible. I have an idea for an easier way to cant them. Carve little holes in the mounting base. That way you can gradually adjust each one, like they appeared on the real ship. Even the rear house has a slightly elevated platform that the posts mount into.

Edited May 6, 2021 by ClipperFan
Grammar correction

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

8 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Spent some time today fashioning all the stanchions for the poop cabin rail.

 

I first stripped the dowel stock I used for the  aft rail stanchions, by making a dowel reducing draw plate....that I ran the dowel through after I cut them in 1" lengths..put them in my dental handpiece and and ran them first through the sizer...then I went quickly to the handmade scribe/cutter I made for this purpose(Like the other one for the other stanchions).

 

Originally the dowel was too big and the joints broke...but once I reduced the dowel...it worked fantastic.

 

Here is the days work. First the finished cabin stanchion in comparison to the fantail stanchion.  A third of those will still need to be modified by way of cutting their head and feet to allow the proper cant to be achieved....then the rest will follow along vertically around the stern.

 

Note the height and size difference....?

 

Rob

Absolutely superb Rob, beautiful. Its quite something. 

[Bob Cleek]

On 5/4/2021 at 9:12 PM, rwiederrich said:

I plan on trying more ideas.  The tool dulls even cutting wood and to sharpen it changes its form.  Uniformity is key.  Thanks for you advice. 

Just a thought: Have you considered making the stanchions from "solid surface material" (e.g. "Corian"?) I've not tried this as yet, but my experience working with the material, which was formerly hard to come by unless you were an installer licensed by DuPont, is now more available as DuPont's patents have expired. It machines very easily with woodworking tools, easier than soft wood, in fact, yet is very tough. It produces a lot of annoying sawdust and swarf that is attracted by static electricity, but other than that the stuff is a delight to work with and from all indications is long lasting. It comes in all colors, but for modeling purposes it's easily painted. It's expensive in large sheets for making countertops and such, but there are lots of offcuts produced by the installers and I expect small odd-shaped pieces are probably "dumpster material" to them. I expect it could be machined to quite thin dimensions without crumbling being any problem at all. 

 

Bone is another material option that may machine more easily and shouldn't crumble so much like wood. It does stink from the heat generated in machining, which can be addressed somewhat by lubrication with a coolant. You can buy large sterilized and dried beef bones at pet stores.

 

As for sharpening your tooling, have you considered taking perhaps a half-dozen or more, as anticipated would be needed, bandsaw or hacksaw blade pieces or the like and then clamping them all together with a common edge and shaping the entire end of the stack at the same time. This should yield however many  identical scraper blades which can then be mounted in your lathe tool holder. When one wears out, just discard it and insert a new one. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said:

As for sharpening your tooling, have you considered taking perhaps a half-dozen or more, as anticipated would be needed, bandsaw or hacksaw blade pieces or the like and then clamping them all together with a common edge and shaping the entire end of the stack at the same time. This should yield however many  identical scraper blades which can then be mounted in your lathe tool holder. When one wears out, just discard it and insert a new one. 

Now that's an idea.....I never thought about.  Making many cutters from so many blade stock.   Cool idea Bob.  I'll stow that idea away for another day...since I'm finished with the stanchion project.

 

In retrospect, I made these all by hand...since the numbers where not too staggering.  Plus cutting and manipulation by hand was faster then if I had done this on my lather.  I could *feel* the cut and compensate for any issues with the wood grain...where as, on the lathe it is far less forgiving to such delicacies. 

 

As usual...thanks for the great advice.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

5 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Absolutely superb Rob, beautiful. Its quite something. 

Tiny little buggers......

 

After looking at my first model of Glory of the Seas and concluding that the generic after market stanchions were just not right....I made it my goal to replicate the real ones as best as I could.  At the time of my first build I didn't go that far in the capture of the true design and scale of the house and aft stanchions.....I just used what was available.

 

Thanks again, for your fine comments and encouragement.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

I'm now considering the *Era* I want to build her in....at what stage of her modifications do I want to namely focus on...and I'm thinking modeling her after her 1877 San Francisco bay dock image.

 

So many things that are on her that are not present on later year images and so many items are excluded on her that she retains in later images.

Just a short list......It is clear she had painted stanchions...and the helm house has been extended.  She has stars on the ends of her catheads(be they painted or a fashioned plate...I do not know).  One intriguing item is the iron support bars connecting her naval hood to her bow.  Not quite sure when that was added..but she does not have them in the 1877 image.  Plus they relocated her name board to make room for its installation.  This can easily be seen from comparing her 1877 image with the recent installed image of her bow close-up at dock in Tacoma.  In the 1877 image she shows her additional 2 backstays added aft of her Fore/main channels/chain plates....in addition she had her spreaders removed to accommodate this change.  In her fitting out image at McKay's yard you can clearly see the spreaders.

  I have yet to determine if her boys cabin and animal/chicken house had been added by the 1877 image....I'll research this fully.  You can clearly see her highlighted constructed lower masts.

 

I think the 1877 image is the best one of Glory in her finest...the peek of her career physically.  IMV

[ClipperFan]

35 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I'm now considering the *Era* I want to build her in....at what stage of her modifications do I want to namely focus on...and I'm thinking modeling her after her 1877 San Francisco bay dock image.

 

So many things that are on her that are not present on later year images and so many items are excluded on her that she retains in later images.

Just a short list......It is clear she had painted stanchions...and the helm house has been extended.  She has stars on the ends of her catheads(be they painted or a fashioned plate...I do not know).  One intriguing item is the iron support bars connecting her naval hood to her bow.  Not quite sure when that was added..but she does not have them in the 1877 image.  Plus they relocated her name board to make room for its installation.  This can easily be seen from comparing her 1877 image with the recent installed image of her bow close-up at dock in Tacoma.  In the 1877 image she shows her additional 2 backstays added aft of her Fore/main channels/chain plates....in addition she had her spreaders removed to accommodate this change.  In her fitting out image at McKay's yard you can clearly see the spreaders.

  I have yet to determine if her boys cabin and animal/chicken house had been added by the 1877 image....I'll research this fully.  You can clearly see her highlighted constructed lower masts.

 

I think the 1877 image is the best one of Glory in her finest...the peek of her career physically.  IMV

Rob, of all images which reveal her true beauty, my personal favorite is the one you've chosen.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, of all images which reveal her true beauty, my personal favorite is the one you've chosen.

Yeah...she is structurally sound and beautiful to behold....too bad color imaging wasn't around then.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, of all images which reveal her true beauty, my personal favorite is the one you've chosen.

Rob, my wife uses these hard, white plastic toothpicks, which are teenie-tiny, as can be seen here resting next to a ruler. Inadvertently a human hair can also be seen winding itself around the pick. The pick is round but has two areas which are just slightly molded. Trimmed to size, possibly delicately sculpted and painted. Just another possibility for raw material.

[rwiederrich]

Thanks Rich.  Yes...I've seen those(without the hair of course).  Good possibility for sure.....I'll look into it.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.  Yes...I've seen those(without the hair of course).  Good possibility for sure.....I'll look into it.

 

Rob

Rob, if I remember, I'll find one of the round toothpicks at are at most diner cashiers. They're also very thin but pure wood, more in keeping with a wooden replica. They're surprisingly durable too. 

By the way, this is in no way meant to make light of the spindles you've already done. They're amazing. It's just that the ones on Glory are still much thinner in comparison.

By the way, Mike surprised me the other day. An article I dug up in The Marine Quarterly revealed a fact that he admitted he wasn't aware of. Charles Robert Patterson had actually seen "Glory of the Seas" in 1899 when she was hauling coal. Perhaps a more exciting development. Mike says he has a print of Glory in 1913 which was used for the coarkboard ad.

[Rick310]

Rob,

I have been following your blog for many months now with much interest!

I seem to remember having read that glories stem was damaged and the iron bars that run from her naval hood to her stem were added to support the stem at that time.

As Regards to her color, all the articles written by Ducan McLean Describing Donald McKay build ships, all had blue waterways. I am not aware of any that were described with waterways that had any other color other than blue.

Ben Langford, when he upgraded the flying fish for model ship Ways described pearl as a light gray color, as opposed to buff, a light brown color?

if Glory’s bulwarks are described as pearl trimmed in white, it seems to me to indicate that the interior bulwark planking was painted pearl with the tlmberheads highlighted in white. This will be a quite attractive combination. I have a China Tradetrade painting of the bark IL Schofield which shows clearly the interior bulwarks painted white with the timber heads left bright.  Both the pin rail,the main rail and the inside of the top gallant rail are also bright.  If I knew how to post a picture from my iPhone I would be happy to share this. Keep up the great work and really well done on the stanchions. Also, as regards to contemporary paintings light gray is going to look white from a distance.  Rick 

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Rick310 said:

Rob,

I have been following your blog for many months now with much interest!

I seem to remember having read that glories stem was damaged and the iron bars that run from her naval hood to her stem were added to support the stem at that time.

As Regards to her color, all the articles written by Ducan McLean Describing Donald McKay build ships, all had blue waterways. I am not aware of any that were described with waterways that had any other color other than blue.

Ben Langford, when he upgraded the flying fish for model ship Ways described pearl as a light gray color, as opposed to buff, a light brown color?

if Glory’s bulwarks are described as pearl trimmed in white, it seems to me to indicate that the interior bulwark planking was painted pearl with the tlmberheads highlighted in white. This will be a quite attractive combination. I have a China Tradetrade painting of the bark IL Schofield which shows clearly the interior bulwarks painted white with the timber heads left bright.  Both the pin rail,the main rail and the inside of the top gallant rail are also bright.  If I knew how to post a picture from my iPhone I would be happy to share this. Keep up the great work and really well done on the stanchions. Also, as regards to contemporary paintings light gray is going to look white from a distance.  Rick 

Rick....thank you for following along....I appreciate your contributions.

 

I tend to agree about the light grey/pearl.  In many pictures of Glory..you can see the highlights and augmented grey shades that trim her houses and railings/gunwales.

 

I'm thinking we are on the same track.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

I spent some time reducing the poop house stanchions a bit and refining its contours.  Still at this scale it is tedious work.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

8 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Rob,

I have been following your blog for many months now with much interest!

I seem to remember having read that glories stem was damaged and the iron bars that run from her naval hood to her stem were added to support the stem at that time.

As Regards to her color, all the articles written by Ducan McLean Describing Donald McKay build ships, all had blue waterways. I am not aware of any that were described with waterways that had any other color other than blue.

Ben Langford, when he upgraded the flying fish for model ship Ways described pearl as a light gray color, as opposed to buff, a light brown color?

if Glory’s bulwarks are described as pearl trimmed in white, it seems to me to indicate that the interior bulwark planking was painted pearl with the tlmberheads highlighted in white. This will be a quite attractive combination. I have a China Tradetrade painting of the bark IL Schofield which shows clearly the interior bulwarks painted white with the timber heads left bright.  Both the pin rail,the main rail and the inside of the top gallant rail are also bright.  If I knew how to post a picture from my iPhone I would be happy to share this. Keep up the great work and really well done on the stanchions. Also, as regards to contemporary paintings light gray is going to look white from a distance.  Rick 

Rick & Rob,

This is one sample of pearl I found: Sherwin-Williams SW-6028 Cultured Pearl in matte finish. It's challenging to find authentic 1860s colors. I know from reading many Duncan MacLean ship descriptions that he was particular about his descriptions of the paints they were finished in. If a color was gray, he would specify it. Pearl wasn't gray for sure.

Rick's correct that most of McKay's waterways were blue. The only other shade I read about was gunmetal gray, which if I remember correctly was on the lower decks of Clipper "Lightning."

Rick, to post images from my Samsung Galaxy S8, I save images in my Gallery, to upload, click on "add files" next to paper clip image below where you post, then choose "My Files" in your phone. That opens to "Categories" where you'll find "Images." Choosing that will bring you to your saved image albums. "Downloads" are pictures saved from the web and "Camera" are ones you took pictures of. The album you select will have open circles next to each image. Click the ones you want to share and a checkmark appears, click "Done" in lower center and you'll see "preview" back on this site. If satisfied "submit reply" will complete the process.

Edited May 8, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I spent some time reducing the poop house stanchions a bit and refining its contours.  Still at this scale it is tedious work.

 

Rob

Rob, that my friend is amazing! That looks practically identical to the ones on the ship herself. I edited and enhanced an area of Glory's main deck where you can see the section of her poop rail with the iron bar extension as well as the rear House upper turned rail. An odd feature I noticed, as seen in the upper left corner is that the curve of the house rail projects out, it doesn't rest on an end post like you normally expect it would. Finally, it's occurred to me that in order to keep a consistent height of the poop deck rail, the turned rails will most likely vary in length with the canted ones being slightly longer than more verticle posts, whether they cant inwards or outwards won't matter.

Edited May 8, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

From Duncan MacLean's description of Clipper Lightning: "inside she is pearl color, relieved with white and her waterways are lead color."

Since Lightning was built for the James Baines line of Australian Black Ball Clippers, it's likely this may have been specified by him.

Flying Fish on the other hand was described more typically: "she is sheathed with yellow metal up to 18 1/2 feet forward and to 19 feet aft; above that she is black outside-a color peculiar to clippers and the clergy." (you kind of get the feeling MacLean was getting bored with black hulls) "Inside her bulwarks, etc are painted pearl color and the waterways blue." 

Sovereign of the Seas has only the briefest of descriptions: "Inside she is paInted buff-color, and looks well about the decks."

There's no mention of a different color for the waterways or anything being relieved by white. 

However, his description of the Clipper Westward Ho! is more detailed and from inference we can determine Sovereign was painted the same way: "She is sheathed with yellow metal up to 20 feet and is painted black above it. Inside she is buff color relieved with white and the waterways are blue."

Edited May 8, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

Here's another shade of Pearl White with an authentic 1850s Chippendale Mirror painted in old style blue.

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[Rick310]

This is the Bark I L Skolfield

Note the red mask bands as well as the Bulwarks and the clamp separating the pin rail from the main rail which is painted, where as the rails appear to be bright.

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Rick310 said:

This is the Bark I L Skolfield

Note the red mask bands as well as the Bulwarks and the clamp separating the pin rail from the main rail which is painted, where as the rails appear to be bright.

Rick,

Beautiful painting. Thanks for sharing this with us. I have a question. Which component is the ship's clamp? I'm familiar with the description but not its location. It looks that this Artist pays particular attention to details. It appears that the stanchions are natural wood while the rail itself is painted white. Fascinating image.

 

 

[Rick310]

While different structural members were called the clamps, beam clamps etc., the clamp I am referring to is a piece of wood between the bottom of the main rail to the top of the pin rail which lowers the height of the pin rail also called the rack rail. This is specifically mentioned in Duncan McLean‘s description of the westward Ho and men Langford when he revised his owner plans of the flying fish added this detail. However according to William Crothers The rack rail for the flying fish was attached to the underside of the main rail as well as the temper heads. Yes this seems to be the more common position of the pin rail. I’ve included a picture from Crothers book. I hope this explains what I’m talking about. Also in the paining I can’t trio If the rails were painted or less bright and a different color avoid in the timber heads

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Rick310 said:

While different structural members were called the clamps, beam clamps etc., the clamp I am referring to is a piece of wood between the bottom of the main rail to the top of the pin rail which lowers the height of the pin rail also called the rack rail. This is specifically mentioned in Duncan McLean‘s description of the westward Ho and men Langford when he revised his owner plans of the flying fish added this detail. However according to William Crothers The rack rail for the flying fish was attached to the underside of the main rail as well as the temper heads. Yes this seems to be the more common position of the pin rail. I’ve included a picture from Crothers book. I hope this explains what I’m talking about. Also in the paining I can’t trio If the rails were painted or less bright and a different color avoid in the timber heads

Rick, I appreciate your clearing that up for me. I never quite understood how those devices interacted and now I do, thanks to you and the excellent work of Mr Crothers. Now I need to review MacLean's description to see if he mentioned the dimension of the clamp.

[ClipperFan]

Rob & Vladimir,

In his latest email to us, Michael Mjelde reminded us that draft marks on Glory's bow and stern would settle her accurate bulwark dimensions. I laid a ruler as close as possible to those markers to do some comparisons. The stern appears to end up with 1 & 1/4s" = 4'. If Rob & my calculations are right, the outer depth of the main deck bulwark should be 3' 8 & 1/2" (5' internally with 15 & 1/2" offset due to the exterior moldings being mounted to 1' high waterways resting on 3 & 1/2" thick decks.) As the ruler appears to show, the dimensions almost match. Since the stern is closer to the camera then the location of the rudder, this measurement appears to be confirmed.

Meanwhile I counted 1" = 7' on the reading of the bow. Rob said the end of Naval Hood is 3' 6" high. While I don't have a photo yet, it measures 6" on the ruler, confirming Rob's dimension precisely. 

It's beginning to look that we can be very confident that Glory had a 5' main bulwark height surmounted by an 18" monkeyrail, bringing her internal height to 6' 6" with an external dimension of 3' 8 & 1/2" topped by an 18" monkeyrail, for 5' 2 & 1/2". At the bow there's a 1' quarterdeck cap rail too.

Edited May 12, 2021 by ClipperFan
More accurate measurements