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Posted

The main topmast is installed with its standing rigging.  I wasn’t pleased with the location of the topmast backstay.  It is too close to the topmast shrouds and the top itself.  I think this is due to my moving the gun ports closer together, which forced the channel location to be modified, which moved the deadeyes for the backstay.  But I’m not going to change all that now. 

Another issue was the rigging of the top yard lifts.  The plans have them attached to a ‘thimble’ lashed between the first and second top shrouds.  This makes the yard lifts part of the standing rigging rather than the running rigging.  So if the yard is ever raised, the yard lifts won’t offer any assistance and, in fact, would be left dangling in the wind.  So I changed the thimble to a block and added shroud cleats for both the top yard lifts and the topgallant yard lifts.  This seems more correct to me.

I rigged the topmast stay as per the plans, lashing some extra line above the block in case the stay ever needed to be loosened.

Also, I’m glad I didn’t glue all of the deck furniture in place until they are necessary.  I have a lot more space to work in.

post-912-0-22570200-1409259525_thumb.jpg

post-912-0-52887800-1409259548_thumb.jpg

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Ken -

The bosun should be very pleased with your rigging.  It's looking great.  And I appreciate any tips you might offer regarding blocks or sheaves that need to be installed on the masts before they are permanently stepped.  "Rattlesnake" was easier for me to rig because it had better diagrams.  I seem to struggle more with this one.  However. "Fair American" does have a better belaying diagram, and that helps some.  Like you, I am relying on the "Syren" practicum for much of the rigging details.  

 

Keep up the good work.

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

Thanks Gary

I also find myself making decisions about rigging based on multiple sources. My biggest fear is to get to a point where I need an extra block or something and it isn't possible to install it.

So comments on this website are a big help.

Cheers

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Thanks Dave.

And.I keep forgetting to say thanks to all the 'likes'.

Thanks

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Ken -

The belaying pin plan shows three deck eyebolts on each side of the main and fore masts.  The Instruction Manual on page 41 has a photo (bottom) showing blocks attached to these eyebolts and labels B, C and D with no caption to explain.  Am I correct in assuming that these are for the lower yard lifts and trusses, which are belayed on adjacent mast cleats? (and for the foremast, the third eyebolt and cleat are for the spritsail braces)  If so, I will strop the blocks to these eyebolts before permanently stepping the mast.  Any of you guys looking over Ken's shoulder have any thoughts?

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

I'm not at home this week so I will have to wait until Sunday/Monday to check the plans.

I thought that lines would pass through the eyebolts at the base of the masts and then tie off on the mast cleat above each eyebolt. But I will check this out when I get home.

BTW. Block Island is BEAUTIFUL!

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Hi Ken -

Well...when in doubt, read the directions.  Sure enough, the trusses and lifts have "purchases" with the lower purchase blocks as "wire-strapped single-becket blocks should be hooked to the deck" and the purchases rove and belayed.  This is on pages 34 and 35, Figures 39 and 40 of the instruction manual. 

 

Enjoy Block Island. 

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

Ken -

I posted a question to the Masting, Rigging, and Sails forum

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7974-trusses-and-lifts-and-jeers-oh-my-fair-american/

asking about rigging the lower yards.  You might want to take a look. 

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

Gary:

Interesting topic and conversion.  I always assumed that the lower yards were not lowered very often (if at all), and therefore the instruction manual was probably correct.  But, it seems that is not the case.  I will check out the Syren documentation.

Thanks.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Ken -

I was hoping that someone following your post (like Russ or Aliluke) would be able to shed some light on this.  Specifically, would "Fair American" lower yards have been rigged in the same way or similar manner as "Syren" with jeers, lifts, and trusses.  Lennarth Petersson's book (pages 34-37) show rigging similar to the Syren practicum.  I am trying to get this sorted out before I permanently step the masts and while I can still easily access the underside of the tops if needed.

I am posting this on your build log and not mine because you have more "followers" who might see it.  Another way of phrasing the question might be as you have above - were the lower yards on a brig from 1780 lowered very often or not?   Hopefully someone will read this and be able to answer.

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

Gary:  I'm also interested in hearing what the 'experts' say.  Keep in mind that on Sheet 2 that shows each mast and yard, there are 4 eye bolts under each cap.  I don't see any lines attached to them on the rigging plan, so these may be perfect places for blocks, etc., needed to rig the lower yards. 

Hopefully, we will get some answers before I'm ready to install and rig the yards.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

I am not sure what the exact problem is, but I checked the instruction manual and the rigging plans. The lower yards are fitted with lifts, trusses, and slings. This is covered in the manual on pages 34-35.

 

Russ

Posted

Hi Russ -

Thank you for your response.  There are two problems.  First is the way the lifts are rigged as shown in Figure 40 page 35, and on my recent post

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7974-trusses-and-lifts-and-jeers-oh-my-fair-american/

Would the lifts really have been draped over the lower mast caps as shown?  Without blocks, it seems to me that the ropes would fray and fail in a hurry.

 

The second problem / question is basically, would the lower yards on a brig from 1780 been raised and lowered with some frequency, or were they fixed and static?  This would help determine whether jeers would have been rigged.

 

I will freely confess to an imperfect understanding of eighteenth century ship rigging.  Any information you or other posters might provide will be appreciated.

 

<<Gary>>

 

p.s.  The trusses and slings are fine by me.  No problems there.

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

Gary:

The lower yards were sometimes raised and lowered. Not as much as the upper yards, but it seems the lower yards were raised and lowered slightly.

 

According to Lees on page 69 of The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860, you can put an eyebolt in the bottom of the cap on either side near the edge of the cap to take a block that will handle the lift. You can also seize blocks in either end of a line and wrap that line around the cap so that the blocks hang off either side. That is a slightly earlier method. I would go with the eyebolts personally.

 

So, you can either follow the plans or do something else. Since the rigging plans follow that of the Annapolis model, you are covered if anyone wants to question your rigging. Either way, you are good to go with whichever method you choose.

 

Russ

Posted

Thanks Russ.

Gary:  I also note that on my previous model (an Armed Virginia Sloop), the slings were seized to double blocks rather than thimbles.  I don't see how the lower yards could be raised/lowered with the configuration as shown in the plans.

I'm not too pleased with the rigging plan of the kit/Rodgers model.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

When I saw the plan I was surprised.  Lifts were usually run through blocks attached to the top mast.  That configuration would destroy the lines in a very short time period.

David B

Posted

Russ -

Thank you once again.  I appreciate you taking the time and making the effort to research our questions.   Your answer makes perfect sense.  I will go with the eyebolts.  And I will most likely follow Chuck Passaro's Syren practicum to rig the lower yards as much as I can. 

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

All the documentation I have seen does have the lower yards attached to slings with thimbles.  It looks like whenever these yards were lowered, the lanyards between the sling's thimbles would have to be untied.  Of course, I believe that the lower yards were only lowered to make repairs that couldn't be done by seamen aloft.  I will use the slings, etc. as per the Syren doc. when I get to that point.

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Ken, Russ, David B. and others -

I think that was a worthwhile discussion that will result in better ship models.  I know I learned a bit about 18th century ship rigging in the process...with a LOT more left to learn.  And we are reminded once again that the Model Shipways "Fair American" kit is a model of a model, with a rigging plan that is not always easy to follow - or believe. 

 

<<Gary>>

current build: SYREN

nearly done:  Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham

future builds:  Emma C. Berry

completed builds:  Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana

Posted

The fore topmast is installed with its standing rigging.  I like the placement of the fore topmast backstay much better than the main topmast backstay.  Everything went like it was supposed to.   The only hard thing was drilling the fairlead holes in the knightheads.

I plan to install the topgallant masts next, and then work on the jib stay and bowsprit horse.

post-912-0-93752100-1410465026_thumb.jpg

post-912-0-13557400-1410465038_thumb.jpg

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Thanks Bob.  Your blog is still a major reference point for my build.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

She's coming along very nicely, Ken. I just finished the bowsprit and rigged the blocks and dead eyes. Your build is very helpful. I've been following your log, the Syren Practicum and Bob's log as my major guidance. Also NRG's rigging document has been helpful. (By the way, I just joined NRG and would urge all of our colleagues to consider supporting the organization.) Again, thanks for the guidance. Ed

<p>EdatWycliffe

 

Current Build:

US Brig Syren

 

Prior Builds:

MS kit Phantom

MS kit Fair American

Posted

Thanks Ed. I will check NRG out.

Thanks for the 'likes' as well.

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

I have completed the standing rigging.  All the masts are installed along with shrouds, stays and back stays.

For the bowsprit horse netting, I used a cutting of black vinyl window screen.  I worry that the lines are not tight enough, but none are sagging and making them too tight is probably much worse. 

post-912-0-05928900-1411179404_thumb.jpg

post-912-0-51790800-1411179417_thumb.jpg

post-912-0-53760700-1411179433_thumb.jpg

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

The standing rigging looks great Ken. The lines look to be at a proper tension. The last thing you want is to have them so tight that they pull the masts out of alignment or don't allow for changes due to temperature or humidity variations.

 

Bob

Posted

Thanks Gunther and Bob and to all the 'likes'.

The tension on the lines are border-line, but I think on the right side of the border.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Real ropes have weight, Ken (especially when wet), and develop a graceful curve or catenary. Most old models such as those in the Naval Academy museum (rigged with silk or linen rope) have this feature and it looks lovely. But it is very hard to reproduce with modern rigging. Excessively taught ropes seldom exist on real sailing ships so don't feel bad about some slackness in your lines.

Greg

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