Prototypical Frame Construction

[mangulator63]

This subject may be discussed elsewhere and if so I apologize. 

 

With that said, I am thinking of modeling the Emma C. Berry from scratch in a scale of 1/2" = 1'  or  3/4" = 1'  I plan on using Model Shipways ECB kit plans that are scaled at 3/8" = 1'.  Unfortunately they have no information on the construction methods used in her original build.

I am trying to figure out some details on how the ship was originally constructed back in 1866. First I am trying to figure out if she was put together using iron bolts for the framing or trunnels ?  Was her planking installed with bolts or trunnels ?

From the few images of her I have found on the internet ,I was able to see that the knee bracing was attached to the deck framing with what appear to be iron bolts. I was not able see any framing detail as far as joints. I also wonder if the bolts I did see were possibly from restorations or modification she may have recieved over the years. I also wonder how the frames themselves were were constructed. 

I wish to model her in a larger scale so I can get into modeling in the finer details.

I would appreciate any help I can get. 

Thanks All,

Tim

 

 

[Jim Lad]

Tim, by the 1860's iron was a common material in ship construction.  By that time some ships were being built on full iron frames - such as the Cutty Sark.

 

John

[EdFattal]

I've done a lot of research on ECB for my project and never found this level of original construction detail because the original records were lost. Lad is correct iron was used commonly, especially for the knees, long before 1866, so *think* that iron was likely used there. I would research on common boat building methods of the time - maybe make contact with the Mystic Seaport Museum for a more 'expert' opinion on building techniques of the era.

[Bob Cleek]

As you probably know, you can obtain the lines, sail, and deck plans for the vessel from Mystic Seaport, although these do not appear to include construction drawings. https://store.mysticseaport.org/ships-plans/emma-c-berry-noank-well-smack.html. Unfortunately, she has not been documented by the Historic American Engineering  I don't expect she was a sufficiently wasn't a sufficiently important vessel to have ever had detailed construction drawings. She would have most likely been built "by eye" to requested dimensions with the decisions as to construction left to the boat builder.

 

All things considered, I think your best bet is to pay a visit to Mystic and bring your camera, note book, and a measuring stick, marked in black and white bands, which can be included in photos as a scale for measuring items in the photos later. I'd suggest calling ahead, as well. I expect that even with the pandemic protocols, they may be able to let you climb aboard and document whatever you want. You'll have to get in her and count the frames and so on, if a large scale "as built" model is your goal.

[trippwj]

17 hours ago, mangulator63 said:

This subject may be discussed elsewhere and if so I apologize. 

 

With that said, I am thinking of modeling the Emma C. Berry from scratch in a scale of 1/2" = 1'  or  3/4" = 1'  I plan on using Model Shipways ECB kit plans that are scaled at 3/8" = 1'.  Unfortunately they have no information on the construction methods used in her original build.

I am trying to figure out some details on how the ship was originally constructed back in 1866. First I am trying to figure out if she was put together using iron bolts for the framing or trunnels ?  Was her planking installed with bolts or trunnels ?

From the few images of her I have found on the internet ,I was able to see that the knee bracing was attached to the deck framing with what appear to be iron bolts. I was not able see any framing detail as far as joints. I also wonder if the bolts I did see were possibly from restorations or modification she may have recieved over the years. I also wonder how the frames themselves were were constructed. 

I wish to model her in a larger scale so I can get into modeling in the finer details.

I would appreciate any help I can get. 

Thanks All,

Tim

 

 

 

There may be some information in the following which documents the restoration of the ECB in 1969

 

Ansel, Willits Dyer. 1973. Restoration of the Smack Emma C. Berry at Mystic Seaport, 1969-1971. Mystic, Conn: Marine Historical Association. ISBN 978-0-913372-08-1

 

 

[Jaager]

to add to what Wayne has provided, the book has:

 

94 pages  with two fold out plans  
plans by T.W.Dunn & R.C.Callyn  original 1/2" to foot
in the book ~ 3/32":1'  Lines    Profile and Sail plan

 

There are almost as many drawings as pages - close up detail for many

As for knees, iron or otherwise, this component seems to be altogether absent.

 

I checked SM - I found no listing for this vessel there.

[Maury S]

There are plenty of details in the reconstruction booklet.  No original plans exist.  The plans done by Ben Lankford which you have referenced are quite detailed and I think you can do a lot of detail at that scale.  Additional info on schooners, much of it period metal work,  of the period can be found in Chapelle's "American Fishing Schooners".   Years ago I built that kit at 3/8" scale (1:32).  At 1:32, the model is close to 27" long and 29" tall so keep in mind the space necessary to display.  She's a lovely model.  I'm Currently thinking about doing a POF at 1:48 with her as a schooner (most of her existence was as a schooner). 

Good luck,

Maury

[mangulator63]

6 hours ago, trippwj said:

 

There may be some information in the following which documents the restoration of the ECB in 1969

 

Ansel, Willits Dyer. 1973. Restoration of the Smack Emma C. Berry at Mystic Seaport, 1969-1971. Mystic, Conn: Marine Historical Association. ISBN 978-0-913372-08-1

 

 

I found this book on eBay and put in a bid.  For some reason it disappeared from my bid page today when I went to see if I had won the bid it was gone!  

I wasn't out bid, it just vanished completely from my account page. No trace of it anywhere, as if I had never bid! I have never had this happen before. 

Unfortunately I did not record the sellers info and since my bid just vanished I'll  have to try again. I hope I do not bid on a book from the same seller again. 

Thanks for the input. 

[mangulator63]

2 hours ago, Maury S said:

There are plenty of details in the reconstruction booklet.  No original plans exist.  The plans done by Ben Lankford which you have referenced are quite detailed and I think you can do a lot of detail at that scale.  Additional info on schooners, much of it period metal work,  of the period can be found in Chapelle's "American Fishing Schooners".   Years ago I built that kit at 3/8" scale (1:32).  At 1:32, the model is close to 27" long and 29" tall so keep in mind the space necessary to display.  She's a lovely model.  I'm Currently thinking about doing a POF at 1:48 with her as a schooner (most of her existence was as a schooner). 

Good luck,

Maury

Thanks for the info.

I found some plans on the HAER website of fishing vessels constructed around the same time period and have some good details on construction methods of the period.  I will probably use this information along with what is provided on the set of plans I have to build her.

I'll also use a little "Modelers License " on problems where I do not have enough information.

 

[mangulator63]

9 hours ago, Jaager said:

to add to what Wayne has provided, the book has:

 

94 pages  with two fold out plans  
plans by T.W.Dunn & R.C.Callyn  original 1/2" to foot
in the book ~ 3/32":1'  Lines    Profile and Sail plan

 

There are almost as many drawings as pages - close up detail for many

As for knees, iron or otherwise, this component seems to be altogether absent.

 

I checked SM - I found no listing for this vessel there.

I found another copy up for bid on eBay hopefully I'll win the bid. This time I have written down the sellers info so I will know who posted it if the same thing happens again. 

There are images of some of the pages in the book and even though the set of plans do not go into detail I think the text should provide some needed information. 

Thanks again everyone,.

Tim

[mangulator63]

7 hours ago, Maury S said:

There are plenty of details in the reconstruction booklet.  No original plans exist.  The plans done by Ben Lankford which you have referenced are quite detailed and I think you can do a lot of detail at that scale.  Additional info on schooners, much of it period metal work,  of the period can be found in Chapelle's "American Fishing Schooners".   Years ago I built that kit at 3/8" scale (1:32).  At 1:32, the model is close to 27" long and 29" tall so keep in mind the space necessary to display.  She's a lovely model.  I'm Currently thinking about doing a POF at 1:48 with her as a schooner (most of her existence was as a schooner). 

Good luck,

Maury

I am thinking of going with 1/2" = 1' for the build.

Wikipedia has her OAL at 39.2' but MSM has her at 45' 9" over all. The set of plans I purchased from Model Shipways years ago are in a scale of 3/8" = 1' 

I'll have to figure out how much they will need to be enlarged to get me to the 1/2" = 1' scale. If anyone could help me with the math, by what percentage will I need to enlarge them when I have copies made?

Tim

[Roger Pellett]

Your plans are 3/8.  You want to build the model to a scale of 1/2=4/8

 

4/8 divided by 3/8 = 4/3= 1.3333... so a close approximation would be to blow up your plan by 33%.

 

You’ll find lots of info elsewhere on the forum about dealing with distortion when enlarging drawings.  Your best bet would be to get it done by someone who specializes in printing Architectural drawings.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Roger Pellett

[Jaager]

The reduced plans in the book were drawn for Mystic.  The originals are 1/2":1'

Mystic sells plans.  It may be worth the effort to check them out.  I have tried to order plans for the clipper David Crockett which is in their inventory, but I cannot determine how many sheets are involved or if they are lines plans complete enough for my lofting method from their web site and I can get no information from them 1:1 email on what is needed to place an order.

The data in Howe and Matthews pointed to David Crockett as being a significant vessel, but listed any plans as having been lost in a fire at the yard of the builder.  It seemed fortunate that Mystic has them, but I guess it is an illusion.