Lady Nelson by KirbysLunchBox - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 - First Ship build

[glbarlow]

On 1/1/2021 at 8:10 PM, KirbysLunchBox said:

my bending form

Yep, that’s why I described using the lans to cut the hull shape out of a board for bending the pattern, not to pile n...

[KirbysLunchBox]

35 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Yep, that’s why I described using the lans to cut the hull shape out of a board for bending the pattern, not to pile n...

For sure. I saw the nail idea before I saw yours. I have a band saw, would have been simple. I almost did it that way before I saw your log, but the excitement of the build got the better of me. I have definitely taken a deep breath and I am not going to rush this anymore.  

[glbarlow]

10 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

I am not going to rush this anymore.  

First, sorry for the typos, me and my iPad are not friends when it comes to typing....  

 

That is your best advice.  It’s understandable to want to get to a result, but harder to remember your not on a schedule.  If I had remembered that Cheerful would have both sides planked once instead of 2-3 times, my having ripped off work I wasn’t happy with. Which bring me to my other advice - don’t settle.  If it’s just “ok for me” then rip it off and do it again. That’s the nice thing about wood, there is almost nothing you can’t fix. I often say if things had three sides my third side would look great because if the practice from the first two. 

 

And of course enjoy it, it’s a hobby not a chore.

Edited January 19, 2021 by glbarlow

[drjeckl]

Glenn is spot on.  Take your time and don't settle.  I started my LN in July and here's what I've accomplished so far:

1. First panking, after ripping off 10 x planks and moving to Chuck's edge bending technique.  What a difference that made!
2. Prepped and painted the gun carridges (learned how to use an air brush)
3. Planked and painted the inner bulwarks
4. Planked the deck, after ordering some wider deck planks for the margin plank (learned what that is)
5. Halfway through 2nd planking the hull.  Also needed more planks because my edge bending broke enough.

And yesterday, I ripped off the plank above one garboard plank because I didn't like the way it landed in the rabbet on the stem post.  Did it over and now it looks better.

 

Boy, do I want to finish the hull and get to the deck fittings, get to the mast, yards and rigging.  But, I'm taking it like the turtle, not the rabbit.  It's the only way.

 

Stay the course, Kirby.

 

John

[KirbysLunchBox]

I appreciate the words of advice and encouragement!  I am really working hard on my patience with this thing after that initial list of fails. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

So I know I have the cart way out in front of the horses here. Pretty sure I lost the horses, but I like to have plans and time to think. Part of why I struggled with the planking is I really had/have no idea what I am doing so I make the best plan I can and adjust. That being said, I want to do as much learning about this process as I can. I know that this wasn’t a real ship, but is a representation or a typical cutter of the time.  Are there any good resources out there about deck furniture, rigging, nuances of details that I might try to include?  I would like to try to incorporate as much as I can with this model so when I eventually step up to a big boy model I at least have cut my teeth. I have been reading through build logs of other cutters, like the cheerful and alert. They are similar but also different.  I have really been struggling with the search feature in this site so any help will be greatly appreciated!

[glbarlow]

The decks of Cheerful and Nelson are pretty much the same. The bigger effort is getting some of the Nelson stuff to scale, meaning scratch building.  There really isn't anything to add to the deck, just stuff to make better.

[KirbysLunchBox]

That helps tremendously!  Thank you!

[KirbysLunchBox]

Searched for Cheerful and yours was the first log that came up! 😉

[VTHokiEE]

9 minutes ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

Searched for Cheerful and yours was the first log that came up!

Be really careful about picking up bad habits from his build log 😂. I’m kidding, that’s a great log to follow if you’re looking to scratch build fittings. It might be a different era, but the anatomy of a ship alert would have drawings for deck fittings as well.

Edited January 20, 2021 by VTHokiEE

[KirbysLunchBox]

I was truthfully going to just build this thing out of the box and move on, but I just can’t. Probably going to cause it to drag on longer than needed, but if I am being honest, I doubt I will get the chance to build another model for a really long time. My kids are about to be 6 and 8. Time is precious. I have a big project going on in the garage for my son at the moment (also have a build log going for it in the scratch built section).  Might as well make the best of the LN, right?

[VTHokiEE]

I don’t know what the rope is like in the kit, but typically upgrading the rope is a small upgrade that will really go a long way (the blocks may be similar). Syren has some very nice offerings of both if you decide to go down that route. Good luck and enjoy it! My kids are 4 and 8 and I still try to do a small bit every day.

[KirbysLunchBox]

I have spent quite a bit of time looking over the goodies at Syren. Is there a guide to what size rope to use based on use and scale? Or does everyone just kind of wing it based on what looks right?

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, VTHokiEE said:

picking up bad habits from his build log

Hey 😁

[glbarlow]

24 minutes ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

quite a bit of time looking over the goodies at Syren

Yes there is a guide. You have them the on the plans for Nelson, if you want to replace the kit rope just get equivalent size, or closest to it, from Syren. That’s what I did, I also replaced the blocks, a more important step. The Nelson blocks are junk. 
 

Note that other than ropes and blocks most stuff on Syren is 1:48 scale and Nelson is 1:64. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by glbarlow

[KirbysLunchBox]

There are no bad habits in making... every path leads to the same end, success!

[KirbysLunchBox]

2 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Yes there is a guide. You have them the on the plans for Nelson, if you want to replace the kit rope just get equivalent size, or closest to it, from Syren. That’s what I did.  

Ima going to look at those plans again! Thank you!

[KirbysLunchBox]

Went out to google for 18th century cutter and it brought me right back to MSW. Not sure why I couldn’t find this while searching the site. 
 

I thought that there should be a life boat of some sort.  😬
 

 

[KirbysLunchBox]

So I was getting ready to sit down to do some more planking and I started thinking about the mast... specifically, should I do anything to the inside of the hull to help support it before I close it up. It has a little bit of wiggle fore to aft, and obviously no support side to side. Will a glob of glue be enough to secure it when the time comes?  I have seen logs done with and without additional support.   Thank you in advance!

 

[tkay11]

If you build good supports, there's no need to glue. This would have an advantage should you have an accident or mishap and need to remove or repair the mast in future, and will help in squaring the mast once the rigging is in place. The other thing to note is that the rigging will hold the mast firmly in place once completed.

 

Of course, a blob of epoxy will keep it very firmly in place if you're confident about its position.

 

Tony

[KirbysLunchBox]

That’s a good point. The real ships masts were held in with wedges and rigging. I think I might add a little bit of support in side the hull with the intention of not glueing the mast. 
 

Thank you!

[glbarlow]

Real ships also had good seat to hold them, this model doesn’t. It’s a bit ambitious to try to center and hold it with rigging. More than I’d try. The odds are if you have a mishap it’s going to be a droopy or off center mast. I’d glue, again I described how I did it in the log. 
 

Just my opinion, up to you. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

Glenn,  I get the idea of the spike you put in the bottom of the mast.  I am guessing the only glueing surface with that is in front and back on the false keel?  I was thinking about a v notch at the bottom of the mast, but I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to adjust side to side. My other thought was to put some blocks on the bulkheads on either side of the mast. Not tight, but close enough for some wiggle. I don’t have any laser guided equipment like you used, so I will have to rely on squares and the eyeball. 😬 I appreciate your input! I am probably over thinking this. 

[glbarlow]

 Yes the spike turned out to be very helpful, it’s not something I’d done before because the Nelson frame was pretty wobbly for the mast. Side supports, that leave room to adjust as you described, are likely a good idea. I used wood glue, Titebond (not white PVA), dripped down that frame slot on both sides. It is tricky with this model, a hold your breath moment aligning it. 
 

While you’re here think about how you’re going to display it. If on pedestals drill the holes now and supports there. The holes need to go past the keel into the, rather fragile, MDF frame. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I made support blocks for the base of the mast.  I used some balsa wood.  I started with just a block. I drilled a hole straight through the block (same diameter as the mast). 
 

 

Using a very old angle finder, I used the plans to figure out the angle from the bulkhead to the base of the mast and transferred the angle to the block.

 

 

 

 

 

I used my bandsaw to cut the angle on the block and also spilt the block in half through the mast hole. Apparently drilling through balsa is similar to a worm eating though it. 😳

 

 

I glued the splits on either side of the groove in the false keel. Lots of glue.
 

 

 

I still need to glue some scrap pieces to close up the half holes on the bottom so glue can’t leak out. 

 

Since I started with the hole the same size as the mast, the width of the bulkhead gives some wiggle room for setting the side to side angle when the time comes to step the mast.  I should also be able to use shims to help lock it in. And lots of glue.

I also laid some more planks. I think I have finally got the hang of it!
 

Next will be addressing the mounting posts per Glenn’s suggestion!
 

Current state of the ship. 😬 Gotta say I am really enjoying this build so far!

 

 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I knocked out the pedestals today. Not sure what drill size I used. Had some nails that were thinner than the keel and long enough to go about an inch into it and the pedestal.  I used a hand drill to make the holes in the keel. 
 

 

 

 

The pedestals have a big hole in them. As wide as the keel. I used some scrap balsa and a stripping tool to make some square stock to wedge into the holes and then drilled them out to match the holes in the keel. 
 

In the end I have a set of pedestals with spikes in them. Still haven’t figured how I will attach the pedestals to the base. Figure some big screws or something. 

 

 

 

Should be clear to finish the first planking now at least!

[KirbysLunchBox]

I realized this evening, that I still have 5 runs of the first planking to go plus all of the second planking and inside bulwark planking before I can start decking.  Deep breaths....deep breaths...

[Skully]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:26 PM, KirbysLunchBox said:

Try number 2 on the plywood bulwarks and I immediately broke off one of the counter sterns and the top of the prow!

After waiting for repairs to dry, I tried again. This time I just let the ship bulkheads do the forming and held it all in place with binder clips. Great success!  I almost messed up and glued the bulwarks to the top of the bulkheads but caught myself at the last second. 
 

 

Hey Kirby.  About to start the LN and I have a question for you.  In attaching the bulwarks (19&20), where are the actual contact points on the hull? I know I can clamp them to the bulkheads to assist with maintaining the shape, but where do I glue?  Cheers

[KirbysLunchBox]

Finally! After 22 hours of work I have the first planking complete. So much learning yet to go, but overall I am pretty happy. I still have some filling and faring and sanding to do before I attempt the second planking, but at least I have made it this far!  
 

Some pictures of making the shutter planks and overall...

Marking the bulkheads to transfer to the plank.

 

Shaping and marking the bow end.

 

Using calipers to measure and scribe the trim lines.

 

 

Fine tuning for a slip fit.

 

And done!

 

 

 

 

Thank you to all that have helped me get to this point!

[glbarlow]

Congratulations on the first planking, great work!