Pore filler lacquer Recommended

[Krupi]

Hello, 

 

I have just brought a Occre HMS Beagle reading through the instructions before I start and one of the first steps mentions "Pore filling lacquer" is there a recommended brand. Would Pure Tung oil be used in this way? 

 

I am sure there is a guide that would help but I can't seem to find one.

 

Regards, 

Krupi 

[grsjax]

Depends on what finish you are going to use.  If tung oil is going to be the finish than it should work to fill the pores as well.  If you plan on painting the wood than you need to find a compatible filler to use.

[Jaager]

10 hours ago, Krupi said:

"Pore filling lacquer"

In this case, I believe the term is short hand slang rather than a reference to a specific product.

Lacquer itself is very thick and is intended to leave a significant layer with every coat.  I am hard pressed to imagine any use for Lacquer on a ship model.  I use it for the thickness feature as a coating on my frame patterns in an attempt to give them a Mylar like nature.  I like the additional stiffness and humidity protection, but it still does not make the patterns brittle enough not to fuzz when sanding and obscuring the line.

 

One of the species that is in the kit is probably something that OcCre is calling Walnut, actually a type of brown Mahogany grown in Africa.  It is an open pore species.  If you intend to paint it, a Sand and Sealer is a product developed to do this.  If you intend to leave it natural, Tung oil is an excellent clear finish.  There are gotcha involved.  The Tung oil polymerizes on exposure to air after application (or in the bottle if air is not kept out).  It wants a thin layer.  Too thick or past its use-by date and it may not polymerize completely.  The first coat should be a 50% dilution.  Tung oil may not fill the pores completely when used as a primer.  The pore filling product does it with a solid mineral ingredient that may not look all that good under a clear coat.  For a clear finish, consider ignoring the pore filling part of preparation.  If the pores will bother you, cut to the chase and substitute the Walnut with a species with scale friendly grain characteristics.  

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

34 minutes ago, Jaager said:

If the pores will bother you, cut to the chase and substitute the Walnut with a species with scale friendly grain characteristics.  

Best answer.

[Krupi]

Thanks for the replies, I have purchased the Tung Oil as this is for the lime wood decking so once sanded back it should look quite nice. 

 

Regarding the walnut planking I don't think this will be an issue as I plan on copper plating the hull and the remainder will be painted. For the painted areas would you use the Tang oil after or just sand and sealer followed by paint as the final finish? 

 

Looking at the instructions occre suggests using there brand of stains for dyes however they seem to be completely out of stock. 

 

Is there a dye manufacturer you can recommend? 

 

Same question for the sand and sealer? 

 

Very new to all of this so thank you for all the help. 

 

Regards, 

Krupi 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Krupi

[wefalck]

It's always difficult to make recommendations, particularly for products, when people don't state the country they are living in.

 

'Pore-filling lacquer' may actually be a poor translation. In German we call the stuff 'Porenfüller', the correct term in English would be 'sanding-sealer'. Essentially, this is a fast-drying nitrocellulose lacquer filled with some pumice dust. It fills the wood-pores with a mixture of lacquer and pumice and gives a smooth and tight surface very quickly. I often use it also as the final finish, because after sanding and/or rubbing down with steel-wool it preserves the natural appearance of the wood. Depending on the kind of wood used, it can also be polished to nice even sheen without having the appearance of a thick layer of varnish.

[Roger Pellett]

I would not try applying paint on top of tung oil, and I don’t see any reason to do so.

 

First, find out what kind of paint that you intend to use; acrylic, alkyd enamel, etc.  Look beyond the brand name to get a technical description of the paint.  These paints can be applied to bare wood, but several coats with sanding between will be required to build up a decent finish.  If the poor quality of the kit supplied wood requires some sort of “pore filler” make sure that it is compatible with the paint that you intend to use.

[Bob Cleek]

Tung oil is a component of quality varnishes, together with thinners and driers, but is not much good by itself. In its raw form, it takes quite a long time to "dry" and may not be compatible with other coatings. 

 

I don't want to sound rude, but your questions betray that you lack experience with the basic concepts of finish coating, be it paint or varnish.  I urge you to search in YouTube for videos on fine furniture finishing and painting and familiarize yourself with the basic principles. After you have done so, test and practice on scrap wood before applying anything to your model. A test should always be made on the same wood species and grain orientation as your model before you apply that finish to the model. Lots of things can go wrong, even when you are experienced, especially with today's synthetic coatings. This practice can save you a lot of grief. 

 

Check these out for starters: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+fill+wood+grain+for+a+fine+finish

 

If it is an open grain surface that you intend to paint, you should build up several coats of sanding basecoat until the pores are filled and then sand the entire hull down to 320 grit or so until it is smooth as a baby's bottom. Tack well and then apply your finish coats.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[Krupi]

Thanks Bob, 

 

Not rude at all, I need all the help I can get. 

 

I have done the deck and decided to use the Tung Oil after checking the results on a test piece. 

 

I am happy with the results, just need to rub it down and apply the final coat. 

 

I plan on copper plating the hull, however from what you chaps have said I should avoid using the Tung Oil prior to painting so I will need to get a sand sealer for the hull prior to painting, this will give a better surface for the paint? 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Krupi

[wefalck]

There is an old painters' rule: fat over lean. This means that you can apply oil-based paints (enamels, artists' oils, and the likes) over say nitrocellulose based primers/sanding sealers, gesso, acrylics, water colours and the likes. But not the other way around. This acrylics will not stick to any surface treated with oils. Not even sanding may help.

 

Similarly, most cements and glues do not stick very well or at all to surfaces treated with oils. The 'sticking' of glue usually is either one of the following processes or a combination of both:

 

- a physico-chemical interaction between polar surfaces (I am not doing a tutorial on chemistry here now, but it may be sufficient to say that oils results in non-polar surfaces - that's the effect of water forming droplets on a greasy surface); many contact cements and in particular also CA work like this.

 

- a mechanical interlinking with the aid of the physical presence of a 'cement' that keys into the opposing surfaces; white glue typically does this.

 

The reason that you can say cement copper plates to a wooden hull is that there is this physico-chemical interaction between the cement and the copper on side and the cement keying into the wood on the other side. If you make the wood oily, the cement doesn't have chance to hold onto the wood.

 

Not sure, why 'tung oil' and similar 'hardening' plant-based oils (lineseed oil is a traditional European variant) have become so popular among many ship-modellers. It can create a lot of problems further down the road, when you need to make alterations etc. before the oil has fully polymerised, which can take months or years.

[Krupi]

Will I now run into problems gluing parts to the deck? 

[wefalck]

You have to try for yourself. However, it is always good practice to provide locating pins for similar for items to be glued somewhere, particularly when the sufaces to be glued are small. This prevents shearing forces from being applied to glued joints, which may peel them off.

[Robert R]

I ran across this discussion after just beginning my Occre Endeavour.  I am getting ready to plank the deck. They still recommend "pore filling laquer" and I had no idea what that was.  However, I just happen to have a couple cans of sanding sealer on hand.    

 

So, let me ask now, at what stage should I apply a finish coat to the deck?  I presume it is when the sanding sealer is dry and sanded and before planking the hull and attaching the deck furniture, or should I wait until later in the build?  

 

Thank you all. 

 

 

[wefalck]

Decks on real ships were bare wood. So, on a model no 'finish coat' should be applied. Sanding sealer and then rubbing down the deck with fine sandpaper and/or fine steel wool are sufficient.

[Robert R]

Thank you

[rtropp]

Hi,

I screwed up the hull of my Occre Albatross.  Is there a way to paint over the varnished hull with white paint? 

Thanks, Richard

[Pirate adam]

Richard,

 

This is what I would try. Wait for the varnish to be fully cured. Then give the hull a light sanding with around 600 grit (or maybe slightly coarser) sand paper. Then mask and spray the areas you want white with Tamiya or Mr Hobby primer (they have a white primer). You should be able to paint with just about any paint you want with the primer on and dried. 
 

Adam