HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

 Those going before me probably spent many days researching the answer. And of course I can’t forget get Ian who has the Longridge book memorized! 😊

You give me too much credit Bill. Many times when you asked a question I simply opened up Longridge to find an answer; sometimes I forget some of the technical names for things.

 

Anchors are more involved than you might expect. Longridge doesn't give his usual thorough coverage nor does Petersson mention it.

I benefited from Blue Ensign's treatise on the topic, on the old Pete Coleman site; cat falls, cat stopper, shank painter, etc. Somewhere on this site I described it all for another Victory builder but I forget who.

[Bill97]

Ian you are a little to humble. I don’t know who else on MSW has had a hurricane named after them! 😀

 

Will look to see if I can find your description. 

[Bill97]

Got the rudder chain attached at the mizzen channel and the first boat hung from the starboard davits. I made a block with a hook attached to a long haliard to hang the boat from and reeve through the davit to the cleat. I have no doubt I did not do the next part correct but I could not come up with a better idea. I have the hook attached to the block at the end of he haliard that hangs from the davit. So I debated what to do with the boat so I could suspend it from the hooks. I decided to put an eyebolt in the bow of the boat that I could put one of the hooks through. I thought of doing the same at the stern but realized an eyebolt in the center of the stern would have interfered with the rudder handle. Ultimately I put an eyebolt in the corners of the stern and attached a chain that will go over the hook. Once I get my USS Constitution down out of its case I will borrow the ore sets from the Constitution boats and put them in the Victory boats. 

[Bill97]

Ian I zoomed in on your boats in post #1401. I see on a couple you have an eyebolt in the deck portion under the rudder handle as well as a ring through the eyebolts. Is that correct?  I like that better than the way I did it. Simple fix. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Bill97

[Ian_Grant]

11 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Ian you are a little to humble. I don’t know who else on MSW has had a hurricane named after them! 😀

Yes, although it is terrible what we are seeing in the news from Florida, it's amusing to keep hearing how powerful "Ian " is, especially after hearing the same thing last week about "Fiona".  My daughter's name is Fiona; it's odd that both our names came up as hurricanes in consecutive weeks.

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Ian I zoomed in on your boats in post #1401. I see on a couple you have an eyebolt in the deck portion under the rudder handle as well as a ring through the eyebolts. Is that correct?  I like that better than the way I did it. Simple fix. 

Yes, an eye at each end. 😃

[Bill97]

Ian that is crazy about you and your daughter!  Doubt that has happened before. 

I just need to modify my rudder handle to get the eye under it. I can’t imagine anyone I know examining my boats that close and saying Hey how did the crewmen steer the boat with that eyebolt in the way of the rudder handle? But like all these things I will know. 
 

Still looking for your anchor rigging description. I found Caldercraft’s anchor rigging but it looks like it has been simplified. May not authentic, not sure. 

[Bill97]

Ian I found this picture you included way back in post #118. Now to see if I can understand it. It looks like you have parts of the rigging going up into the shrouds. 

[Ian_Grant]

That lashing on the bower anchor is the line connecting the anchor buoy; the anchor buoys are those black objects tied up in the shrouds; they're basically a barrel-like object wrapped in canvas and tarred. The buoy's line is coiled up and tied to the shrouds. The second buoy, for the sheet anchor, has no line on it and is simply lashed to the shrouds.

 

The stream anchor lashed to the sheet anchor is 3rd party; Heller only provides the four bower and sheet anchors. There is another smaller anchor, the kedge, lashed at the starboard mizzen channel, also 3rd party. I omitted the small kedge anchor.

 

Here are some nice relevant drawings from Lees:

Top left shows the servings on the anchor ring, or "puddening". Lees has the colours reversed - the entire thing is black, with four white lashings. Speaking of anchor rings, I recommend you cut them off your anchors and replace with a brass ring in a drilled hole. They do not hang realistically with the plastic ring rigidly in line with the shank.

 

As I said I can't recall who it was I helped with anchors before, but I did find a couple of pictures I used at the time. Here they are for your viewing pleasure. Doesn't she look great? Since I found the pictures I will give details below.

 

This shows the port bower hanging by the cat falls, in the first catting operation. This operation is hooking the anchor ring with the very large hook stropped to the triple cat block, after the anchor breaks surface when lifted by many men on the capstan. The running end is led through the large snatch block on the bulwark just aft of the cathead, then I am not sure what happens - led to a capstan? hauled on by many men (only one sixth the effort now)?  At any rate the cat falls can only get the ring so high because of the bulk of the cat block and hook.

This one shows the starboard bower after the second catting operation. The black "cat stopper" clinched around the cathead is passed through the ring, back up through the very large cleat on the back side of the cathead,  and belayed on the large timber head at the corner of beakhead bulkhead and bulwark. After this, the cat block and falls are unrigged.  The ring puddening is clearly seen.

This pic shows the shank painter on the bower which is the fishing operation. An eye on the bottom of the channel holds a chain which is passed around the shank. The chain is connected to a rope which is belayed on, I guess, a timberhead. Can't recall and I can't see this black-on-black on my cased model. They used a "fish davit" temporarily mounted above the channel as a crane to hoist the business end of the anchor higher before tightening the painter. Heller did not provide fish davits. Copying Blue Ensign, I made some and stowed them on the foredeck.

 

Also seen is the chain securing the sheet anchor to the pad on the deck. It attaches to an eye on the side of the hull, and another on deck. What isn't clear here, maybe it is black too or maybe they omitted it since these are fiberglass replica anchors, are the lashings I showed in natural on my sheet anchor. The one on the upper arm of the stock ties to an eye under the channel, as I remember (again I can't see it on my cased model). The one on the lower arm belays on a timberhead. These crossed lashings lock the anchor in place.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. Now I can get to studying. 😊

[Ian_Grant]

Bill,  I notice your emergency steering chains ran too far up the hull. Here is a shot I just noticed recently added to a build log for HMS Vanguard by Bikermart.

[Bill97]

Oh OK Ian you mentioned a rope was connected to the chain. Now I see the rope has a hook that the chain connects to down near the eyebolt. Easy fix. 
 

git the lanterns painted and mounted. You were right the little lines that simulate the cage the lens sets in were a task. Some came out pretty good, others not so much. 
 

Fix the emergency chain then all that is left is those anchors once I am confident I understand them. I think I got it. Then I am going to fabricate an Admiral Nelson out of my crew men and paint them all. 

[Bill97]

Emergency chain fixed. Now moving on again! 😊

[Mexspur]

I thought the chain was supposed to be above the waterline.

[Bill97]

Mexspur I think you are right. I still have it wrong!!  All the chain should be above the copper. 

 

Back to the drawing room. Another easy fix. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Bill97

[Robert29]

Great work on your rigging Bill.  I am still struggling with the rigging on my Victory, I am just a little, or maybe a bit more than just a little, behind you.  So  from time to time, especially when I am stuck,  I visit your log to seek help.  Maybe you can help me with this one.

I am presently rigging the yards and I just fitted the Lifts for the Fore Topgallant Yard and am in a bit of a dilemma where the end of the lift should be belayed.  In the kit manual it says (....and is secured to a futtock strop on the fore top.). In the Longridge it says (....and belayed round a deadeye.)

 

So I am assuming this is where it should be belayed on the Fore Top.

Can you please confirm if I am right. If so I will belay them there and leave some sort of a coil as well.

Hope you don't mind me posting an image on your log, if you want I can remove it.

 

Thanks.

Robert 

[Bill97]

Robert initially that is exactly what I did for any lines that the instructions said to belay at a deadeye or a shroud. Later I learned that lines belayed at shrouds were not tied around the deadeye but instead to a shroud cleat. I had a number of lines tied at both the lower shrouds and the upper shrouds just like you do. I felt this scale is to small to try to make little tiny shroud cleats so what I’d did (not saying this is correct) is to untie all the ones I had around the bottom of a deadeye and tie them to the shroud right below the bottom ratline. Hope this is helpful. Maybe someone else can shed some light. 

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, shroud cleats are only used for some running rigging, at deck level. Actually Robert has the belaying point for the topgallant shrouds correct, except that there should be thimbles. Somewhere earlier in this log I posted a pic of mine. Here is the relevant Figure from Longridge. Robert, if you don't have his book I respectfully suggest that you look for a copy; it is the bible for rigging this ship. Realistically, however, you could omit the thimbles; they're hard to see behind the topmast shroud lashings anyway.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. I do remember that and seeing this figure in Longridge’s book. That is the way I originally had mine and changed it after we had that discussion about me having mine tied on the outside of the shrouds. Depending on my mood I may go back and put them back where they were before, without thimbles. 
 

See Robert, I knew Ian, or someone, would come through for you. 😊

 

I have to go back in and fix my emergency chains that hang below the water line. 

[Robert29]

Bill and Ian, thank you for your reply.  I do have a copy of Lonridge and it has been indispensable for me.  Ian, I am under the impression that the lashing you described is just for the Topgallant Shrouds (standing Rigging).  In fact that is the way I did the Topgallant Shrouds as per Longridge, totally different from the Kit manual instructions.  Thimbles are no problem because I found a way to make them myself from very small brass tubes.

The one I am enquiring about is the  Lift Ropes coming down from a block seized between the first and second topgallant shrouds.  In Longridge the lifts come down from a thimble seized between the first and second topgallant shrouds.  But now it is too late for me to change it from a block (as advised in kit manual) to a thimble (as described in Longridge).  

In Longridge, page 249, subheading Lifts, last sentence, .......leads down into the top and belays round a deadeye. Lifts being a part of the running rigging I think it should be in a way that it can be untied and adjusted anytime. So I am unsure  whether to do it same as for Topgallant shrouds or belay it to round a deadeye strop. 

 

Robert

[Ian_Grant]

Robert and Bill - my bad!  Somehow I just got it in my head that Robert was talking about the shrouds. Yours are nicely done!

 

Hmmm.....

 

Petersson shows the topgallant lifts indeed belaying to cleats on the topmast shrouds.

Lees says the topgallant lift was "taken to the lower top where it was made fast to a deadeye or cleat".

 

I know I did not add cleats for these lines, I must have just tied around the strop, for what it's worth.

[Bill97]

So Ian if I go by Lees my topgallant lifts are not 100% wrong! If Lees says deadeye or cleat, mine is almost to a shroud cleat (just no cleat 😉).  Maybe I will leave those lines alone and move on to the anchors. 
 

Robert I must compliment you on the outstanding craftsmanship of your rigging of the deadeyes and shrouds! That is some beautiful work that puts mine to shame. That is one area I really need practice and improvement before I start my Soleli Royal. 

[Ian_Grant]

Bill I would think long and hard about trying to change them at this point; in the end it makes little difference.

 

Yes, Robert's rigging looks very neat. He is helped by the Caldercraft's larger scale...😄

[Bill97]

Ian I did think about it and decided to leave them alone. 
 

i had not thought about my emergency rudder chains being below the water line. I need to move them up, take out the eyebolt in the hull, and patch my copper. 
 

Speaking of Robert’s Caldercraft. A while back I got a copy of the Caldercraft instructions and did from time to time look at them for clarification of a step. I looked at it again recently in reference to the anchor rigging and contrary to Longridge, it shows leaving the large triple block with the hook and the haliard reeved through the cathead hooked on the anchor ring even though the anchor is lashed up in the shoe. 

[Robert29]

Bill / Ian,

Thank you so much for your help.  Bill your rigging is outstanding. Many times I sourced help from your log, details exchanged between you and Ian, especially when I was doing the bowsprit and decided to go for the jibboom and flying jib travellers which were not even mentioned in the kit manual.

 

Yes, Ian is right, scale makes a lot of difference. Caldercraft Victory is 1:72 and it does help to add more detail.  The first kit I did was 1:200 and some detail there is no way you can replicate.  

Back to the Victory, so although I have cleats on the lower mast shrouds, to use the same size on the Topmast shrouds will look too big, and to make smaller once and rig them I think it is difficult, so probably I will belay round a deadeye.  In my opinion, sometimes it is better to omit some detail when its too small to replicate then to do it and doesn't look good or very out of scale.

 

Thanks again

Robert

 

 

[Ian_Grant]

Robert, nice build log! You have a new follower.

[Bill97]

Same here Robert! 

[Bill97]

Ian I am beginning to think about and design the display case. I want to put it in my living room. A couple times you have included a photo of your’s in a comment. I have quickly scrolled back through my blog and your’s to find out he picture, and of course when I want it I can’t find it. I like the height of your’s since it is not real intrusive in the room. What is the height of the legs or table your case sets on? If I remember correctly, it looks about the height of a coffee table, maybe?  Do you find the height good and comfortable for viewing?

[Bill97]

Ian n this picture of your anchor where is that white rope that is wrapped around the business end f the anchor going?  It looks like it goes up to a block then maybe reeves through it down to another at the channel maybe?

 

I have the first part of the anchor rigging done, I think, but not sure about the rest. Also looks as if there is a chain as well. 

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Bill, that's the line to the anchor buoy hanging on the shrouds; it goes up and is coiled beside the buoy. It only looks like it goes to the block because the threads run very close together. The three blocks are the same rig as the three in your photo, except you have rigged your upper block in black. These are on the fore topmast breast backstay.

 

The chain is the shank painter which I described in #1419.