HM Bark Endeavour 1758-61 by DaveBaxt - Caldercraft - 1:64

[DaveBaxt]

After much thought I eventually decided to go for this ship. Mainly due to local interest . I was not planning on starting building until october when the nights start drawing in but could not resist the temptation on getting my hands on the kit and seeing what she would be like. I was quite surprised to see for such a hefty price compared to my first period build the Bounty by Amati there were no sails or flags within the kit. Fortunately I am not planning fitting the sails anyway but might of changed my mind later on.

              Upon opening the box and checking the contents I was a bit disappointed to find that all of the 5mm plywood boards are bent/warped to varying degrees.

The main piece being the false keel the others which housed the bulkheads. I decided to remove these pieces  from their boards so to determine the extent of the warping. I am happy to say when laying the bulkheads on a flat surface they seem to be ok . Unfortunately no so with the false keel. Here is a couple of photos with the extent of the warping, so let me know what you guys think. 

                    I have read a few different threads regarding how to put this right but first I thought I would contact Caldercraft and see if I can get the false keel replaced together with a couple of parts which are missing.  Strange as it may seem this parts belong to a walnut board and a brass sheet which have other pieces as well. When I mean missing leaving holes, I mean I can,t find them but have numbered all the parts as per the drawing.

                I am now awaiting the  reply from Caldercraft and hopefully they live up to their reputation and its not too long until I hear from them.

Although I wasn,t thinking of starting the model until october perhaps I would be better of assembly the hull to the point of fitting the wales to ensure that the replacement keel doesn't warp before October. I also have lots of questions before I start in earnest. Best regards Dave

 

 

 

[Fernando E]

Hi Dave

 

I have this kit on the shelf so will tag along for the ride!

 

Cheers......Fernando 

[DaveBaxt]

I have just had a reply from Caldercraft after sending them the photographs of the keel in question and they have said that the keel in question does not warrent a replacement as it is only very minor . It can be straightened by assembling the keel and bulkheads  using a building blocks on either side of the keel then adding wales and a few planks either side and this will be sufficient to stop it bending back again once removed from the building blocks. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding. Wonder what your thoughts are on this. Seems this is quite common. 

[Baker]

Gluing wooden blocks between the frames should indeed solve this problem
The blocks must be correctly sawn at 90°

 

[DaveBaxt]

I have been toying with the idea of adding a rabbet in the hope of helping with the buff bow. My thinking is that it would help me to tuck those ends of the planks into the rebate. I discussed this idea with one of the guys at Caldercraft and his answer was the model is not designed to have a rabbet and does not require one. I did note that the bulheads do come down to the bottom of the false keel. I understand Dashi who explains on his blog that you can get around this by  removing material off the bottom of the bulkheads and having the rabbet in the keel instead. Seems a lot of additional work for something you do not actually see. I am still thinking about the best way forward and in the meantime I am concentrating on the best way forward on how to straighten the false keel. 

[DaveBaxt]

5 hours ago, Fernando E said:

Hi Dave

 

I have this kit on the shelf so will tag along for the ride!

 

Cheers......Fernando 

Welcome aboard and feel free to add anything. Let me know what you think of the kit,once you have taken a look. The instructions look a little sparse but the 8 x large plans make up for this. There is a awful lot of small etched brass parts which will need lifting out of the brass sheet and the deadeys appear to be smaller that what I am used to on the similar scale model the Bounty by Amati , however this one maybe the near to the correct scale.

[DaveBaxt]

6 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

They are actually - I think - not suggesting filler blocks but fitting the keel between blocks as a sort of building frame.

 

I do this routinely anyway using battens fitted first on the base board and then  areas cut  out for the BHs - it may work  to correct the bend . 

 

But I still think they should supply flat ply  (one of the reason for MDF is that this is not suppose to happen with it.) I have seen a kit which had the keel edge tucked into an aluminium moulding to keep it straight but that would be expensive.

 

Old Fly build

 

 

Spyglass you are 100% correct in what Caldercraft suggested but I was not very good at explaining it. This is also how I built my last ship.I just had't figured out how to build it because the bulkheads go all the way to the bottom of the false keel.I can see from you photo that you have left gaps for the bulkheads . I am assuming they are individual  wood sections that are glued to mdf base rather than clamping the false keel between 2 pieces of wood .Once the deck and a few peices of planking are fitted it should be straight. I thank you kindly for your input and digging up that photo for me.

             According to the drawings the first thing to do is to glue on the walnut keel pieces which I think if the false keel is laid on a flat surface and weighted down whilst allowing the glue to dry would be suffiecient to keep the false keel staraight. but not 100% sure. This would also give you something to clamp the blocks of would to whilst fitting the deck and first of the top planks. Hope this makes sense and this is just another idea  but not sure if fitting the keel pieces ,stem and stern posts yet is a good idea ? Best regards Dave

[DaveBaxt]

6 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

No i first  fitted two continuous wooden battens on my building board first -first one fitted and checked for dead straightness then teh second spaced by putting pieces of ply in the gap or indeed clamping the keel ply

That gives straight lines for the keel ply.

Then I marked and cut out the gaps for the BHs afterwardso the keel was still gripped dead true .

 

There are good reasons that many maybe even most builders dont fit the keel and stem and stern pieces  at the start. Stops them being marked while fairing the hull first layer!

I have just completed exactly that and have glued two parallel pieces of MDF to a flat board. At least it lays flat on out kitchen table not sure about in my work shop so might have to look into that as well. Any way you can see from the photos that the false keel is pretty straight when in the jig. The pieces of wood are also screwed from underneath. Tomorrow I will cut out the section where the bulkheads slide in and hopefully everything will still line up.

[DaveBaxt]

8 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

 That looks good

 I usually also terminate the battens  just before the stem and stern section so I can check the angle with  set square or sometime I actually use a " doubled up" square to hold the keel vertical comes in hand to check all is level .

Though ofcourse then you need to ensure you base board is level - i usually just level it with a  bit of cardbard or plastic packing 

 

Oh and not really on subject but i came across this pic of my method for checking BH line up with a cheap household laser level !!

 

I think I have one of those spirit level squares knocking about somewhere.Some great ideas for ensuring accuracy. I am not to sure about the laser.. I appreciate what they are supposed to do but I have never used one so I am a bit clueless really. I am a bit old school and just used Lego bricks haha. Still I am very interested in your methods. Thanks again for your photos. Best regards Dave

[DaveBaxt]

Ok so moving on and before I start thinking about glueing  any of the bulkheads, the bearding line needs a bit of thought. According to the drawing the stern,stem posts are glued into position, however I think I will wait until after the bulkheads have been faired ,so as not to damage them. Now the stem post is 5 mm and the thickness of both planks on either side is also ( 1mm + 1.5mm) x 2 =5mm so I would end up with no would left on the false bulkhead.

             One possible solution would be to remove enough wood from the deadwood area for the first  planking  ie 2 x 1.5mm so leaving 2mm min on the deadwood area remaining. Then planking the stern and post with the second 1mm planking . It would also be necessary to plank the keel and stem post so all would be flush. 

II did the above on my last model and it all worked out pretty well. I also ended up planking the rudder post too. I wonder if there is any other solutions as nothing is indicated in the instructions or the drawings.

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

Update completed buiding jig and cut ou the sections to allow the bulkhead to go all the way down and flush at the deck. placing the bulkheads into postion there is still a small amount of deflection at the top of the false keel but is easy to push into position. I will see how this looks when I glue all the bulkheads and clamp them to the keel making every thing square . If the top of the keel is still out a bit I will then have to use some block of wood in th corners and between the bulkheads in the the hope this will complete the job.

[DaveBaxt]

I like your idea and think your idea will probably work so will be thinking of that working better than what Amati were instrucing me to do on my last model as I remember having trouble with the rudder brackets/pins as they were to small after adding 0.5 planks to rudderpost and rudder, If I go your way there would be no need to plank the rudder post and rudder. When you say terminate the planks early .Is that at the bearding line ? What does the second planking look like when completed. Can you get a nice smooth flow over where the planks are terminated?

                      Regards the pedistal stand . I bought one for my last model but could not get the model to sit straight due to not drilling it square.Unfortunately I did not own a drill stand at the time. I am currently thinking of buying one at some stage . I have also been considering a milling machine. The Proxxon MF70. but in two minds is it worth the extra expense and if it is too early in the hobby for me. Once again I thank you for your invaluable help. Best regards Dave

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

As I have decided to take Caldercrafts advice a not fit a rabbet and spyglass advice and leave the keel strn and stem posts until I have fared the bulkheads I have made a start on gluing the bulkheads into position. I might be a bit overkill with the clamps but I wanted to make sure everything is square and the grandsons lego bricks came in hand .Great idea by the way who first came up with that. I will wait about an hour for the glue to have a good hold and then move onto the next one checking all the while to make sure all is square.I also packed the base underneath so that it would sit flat on my worktop bench as suggested by Spyglass . I think this has pleased my wife as I am now out of the kitchen

[DaveBaxt]

5 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

THE GREAT CRASH wiped out my nice pics of  "my " thinning process though I really cant claim it   I just use it.  Let me see if I can step though it.

My Pickle log has the steps mostly         THINNING

 

NOTE - IF YOU HAVE A PLY KEEL -taking off layers is  controlled way of thinning and also the layers show up as stripes as you sand which helps in depth assessment

 

 

 I dry fit the BHs and mark the base of each of the keel ply ( forrad edge at stern and aft edge at bow).  That gives a sort of bearding line - in pencil

 

• Draw a rough curve - green -(termination line) somewhat further towards the keel edge between the "bearding" line and the edge of the ply  -that is the termination point for the first planking. How far depends on the curve of the hull of each vessel
• That point is also the starting point for thinning the keel ply to the width needed.
• You can thin the keel ply now at this point but best maybe not to do it completely
• First planking cut off at the termination line  - ENDS WELL GLUED to ply to allow feathering
• Then you can fair the first planking to a feather edge along the line  

 

 

Er Er i do blush again but i did suggest the lego method - if only my modeling was as good as my weird ideas !!  LEGO JIG

 

 

Thank you spyglass for explaining that to me and I think I have pretty much got the idea now so fingers crossed I should hopefully be ok. As far as lego is concerned I will definately be on the look out for those flat square pieces as that seems to make the job even easier. I wont need to get in a tangle with all those clamps.Ha ha. However to be fair, the ones I have got seem to be doing a pretty good job as I keep checking everything is square and that the keel is nice and straight.

Edited June 6, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

I am originally from South Shields and grew up there but have now lived in Washington for 35 years so not too far from you..

[DaveBaxt]

All bulkheads set up square using clamps and lego bricks. Glued into position and allowed to dry over night. Keel looked straight as a die but then removed from the jig you could still see a lttle bit of a curve at each end of the keel. So have decided to glue in some 90 deg pieces in between the bulkheads whilst in the jig and glue in the forward blocks to aid bending the blocks around the buff bow in the hope this will aid the straightening of the keel. I allowed the glue to dry overnight and once again when removed from the jig , although improved it is still not 100 % . I think the next stage will be to glue and pin the deck into position and see where we are then. 

 

 

I

I am not sure if there is much more that I can do. I am thinking of fitting some blocks aft which may help I could also fit some  12mm x 12 mm walnut strips at the bottom, on each side of the keel and in between the bulheads but unsure if this would make much difference. When looking at the keel from the top it looks straight to me so once I pin the deck perhaps this should be good enough.

Edited June 8, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

1 hour ago, SpyGlass said:

Hummm  bluntly I would send the pic to Caldercraft and politely say they were talking balderdash and could you have a replacement set of keel and Bulkheads.

It is simply unacceptable in my book to have to do this amount of correction. 

I complained about exactly the same issue with my Pickle  and they replaced the keel ply very quickly so its not a new issue they have !!  Keel ply warp

 

Bye the bye Dave  we no longer neighbours - I am in Cornwall now but i remember the Sunday School outings to Shields beach !

After having another look at it I don,t think it is too far away and to be fair to Caldercraft I haven,t as yet glued the deck on yet as this is what he instructed me to do. So will carry on the way I am going and see how it goes. Your advice may well be the wise thing to do but having got this far it will be interesting to see how it turns out. I may however regret my decision only time will tell. I will attach the decks and think a bit more. Thank you once again for all your help it is much appreciated. Best regards Dave

[DaveBaxt]

I agree and think it is all part of the hobby. My last build the Bounty was not without issues as well .  The main one being the holes in the deck did not line up with the mast and hit a bulkhead and that was rather interesting sorting that one out .I am beginning to wonder if there is always one or two problems with all kits or is it just me. Rather than be put of I am hoping to build more ships from Caldercraft .So if I have any further issues regards a warped keel I now have the evidence to prove the extent I have gone to, in order to straighten the keel.

                                I see you you have come up with another way of straightening a keel with the two glass plates and sound interesting. How long was the keel in the plastic bag for? If your not in any hurry to start might be the way forward . In the end how successful was this?

Edited June 9, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Just did a dry fit of the deck pieces and noticed that the fwd mast hole does not line up with the alocated slot. I will need to check the drawings to see what is the correct position. I think I will be easier to move the slot in the false keel than move the hole as it is only about 1 mm  but we shall see.

[DaveBaxt]

3 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

The bag method was NOT worth pursuing it required four days in bags and still wasnt perfect. 

I am beginning to think that its almost impossible to get the plywood keel flat again  without some form of support and once that support is remove will always deflect a smaller amount back to its warped condition. Just hoping I have done enough to not cause any issues later on down the line.

[DaveBaxt]

Started gluing and pining the decks after removing some material at the aft end of the slot in the bulkhead to allow the mast to now fit. I tried to take measurements from one of the plans of the deck layout but I don't think they are to scale. I also fitted 4 strips of 5x5 mm walnut to support the lower deck  in the mid ship area.   This was not in the instruction but just thought the deck needed this. Once the glue dries I intend to remove the pins

[DaveBaxt]

I know I am some way from the masts but all the dowels are white wood and just wondering what sort of wood it is and wonder why not Walnut ? It will therefore be necessary to stain or paint some of the masts and yards . I have some walnut dowel  in my stock so will probably change the masts which are not painted for walnut . Is there any other reason for not doing this other than the extra costs. I have tried staining lime before using a walnut wood dye and didn,t like the finished look although I am not sure if the supplied dowel is lime. Any ideas?

                            Also found most of the smaller dowels 6mm and under are also warped. Not too impressed with the kit wood so far. I wonder if it  would be better to  order directly from Caldercraft as I we don,t know how old the kit has been stored at the retailers.

Edited July 4, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Finishhed glueing and pining the deck to the bulkeads and keel whilst everything in line whilst in the jig and hey presto a straight keel. I am over the moon and should hopefully remain so whilst laying planks alternatively port and stbd

[DaveBaxt]

Looks Like I need to get in touch with Calder craft. After looking closer at the 1.5 mm Walnut sheet I first noticed that the stern facia  has four windows missing. At first I just thought that they had just dropped out and were waste. However on closer inspection I believe  these are recessed rather than holes, like the one in the middle. Also the edges are rough as if they have been broken off and cannot understand why. Also if these had just dropped off ,surely they would be in the box somewhere.

               If there are any Caldercraft Endeavor builders out there can you please confirm that the windows should be in place. Thank you.

[Mr Pleasant]

Hi Dave

That's how the kit is.  The window frames are photo etch and fit the spaces.  I've attached a couple of photos showing the part you've shown fitted with some black card behind and the other showing the photo etch fitted and painted.

 

Hope this helps

 

Mr P

[DaveBaxt]

36 minutes ago, Mr Pleasant said:

Hi Dave

That's how the kit is.  The window frames are photo etch and fit the spaces.  I've attached a couple of photos showing the part you've shown fitted with some black card behind and the other showing the photo etch fitted and painted.

 

Hope this helps

 

Mr P

 

[DaveBaxt]

9 hours ago, DaveBaxt said:

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me I also now know what the black card is for .I have also learned from your photos how the planking id finished off at the stern together with some of your other photos you have posted elsewhere on this forum. Best regards Dave

Edited June 19, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

This could be the last post for a while as I am leaving it until the better weather is over and the nights draw in. I have made a jig to support the model during the first and second planking. I have added filler blocks fore and aft using a mixture of balsa wood and bass wood ply. I much prefer the bass wood and wish I had waited until I had some rather than using the balsa wood but never mind here goes.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

A couple of more operations I thought I would try before continuing to plank the hull. First off I wanted to fit a pedistal fore of mounting the ship and fitting columes. Last time I tried just screwing it into the bottom of the keel and this did not work out as I was unable to get the ship to sit straight.

     I used a milling machine to drill the holes in the keel  and the used this to mark the holes into the false keel. I did a search for hidden nuts on google and was offered Tee nuts which were readily available,so thought I would try these. It was necessary to fit blocks either side of the bulk head and then mount the Tee nuts and once the bolts looked straight  the nuts were glued into position. Once the keel strip is glued into position this should hopefully stop any movement of the Tee nut.

                         I have also fitt another two blocks at the stern in the hope of increasing the amount of contact the planks will have as they approach the deadwood area rather than just the edge of the plank.Hope this makes sense.

 

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

Made a start on the first planking and all went well until towards the end. The last quarter of the planks it was necessary to change tack and not continue planking the same way and continue to bend the planks in the same way but in the way as showen  thus.

Also Just after of where the blocks I have fitted are sinking in and require filling due to the planks somewhat sinking in. Perhaps I should have extended the blocks further aft as this is what I was trying to prevent. The pine planking was very easy to work with and only required soaking for a couple of hours and once on position with the help of a heating Iron only took another couple of hours to completely dry  and then the pins could be removed ready for glueing. Worked quite well but a lot of work to do with filler. I would sya this is probably my worst planking job so far.

 

Using the combination of the fold back clips and pins with scrap pieces of lime wood worked ok. The clips kept the planks togethher and also the surface flush. However as the planking got closer to the keel even the smallest of clips would not fit into the space. I made sure that each plank was carefully shamfered so no clinkereing occured but still needed to use the clips. I am now on the search for some kind of clip would sufface and keep the surfaces flush on my next build.. .Any ideas? Best regards Dave

Edited July 25, 2021 by DaveBaxt