Lady Nelson by Freezing Parrot - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64

[drjeckl]

OK, error detected and rectified.  Bravo!  Gold star accepted.  Not sure it matters, just be consistent:  I chamfer the top inside edge of each plank I lay down, which gets a tighter fit to the plank above.  Also, every new plank mates with a straight edge.  I'm thinking that's what you're saying, just that we're saying the same thing with different words.

 

Probably not a big deal but I found the smaller hatches were the same size; 6 x holes by 6 x holes.  I measured the big hatch at 10 x holes by 10 x holes.  Don't be going off the rails on us, brother; we're invested in you.  As you found out, details matter!  I could be wrong but you're going up against a math major (BS, Applied Math, SUNY at Stony Brook, 1973, cum  laude) not bragging 😎 but...  Look at the plans my friend (maybe you got different plans than I got). 

 

Nice work on the anchors, the wood makes them look more realistic.  I haven't gotten to my carriages yet, but are you going to cut off the quoins and replace with wood ones, as per the recommendations by Chuck Seller (Modifying Gun Angles) ?  That's how I'm going to go; just not there yet.  I guess you need to have a final deck to check out the display angles.  I'm working on the coamings for the hatches; will advise on how I made out.

Edited July 5, 2021 by drjeckl

[glbarlow]

As shown in my log I had three different sized hatches as I took from the plans. For reasons I don’t recall and make no sense I reversed the aft most hatch and the companionway. I’m sure what ever makes you happy with the deck furniture works. The hatch covers are a good time to experiment with basic scratch building. The walnut strip in my kit was so brittle I couldn’t get anything decent. So I used some boxwood I had and made lap joints, more realistic than 45 degree mitre joints.  But again, be successful and have fun on your first model, it’s a learning experience to build on. 
 

I didn’t make any changes to my gun angles, I’d definitely wait until the final deck to even consider it.  As you get there I’ll note I had to scratch built the bits, I couldn’t ‘get the bowsprit to fit otherwise. 
 

FYI, I successfully obtained my college degree, and I had to work at this using other electives, without taking a single math course😂😅🤣 I’m quite proud of that, but never told my kids so maybe not that proud.

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks for catching my errors with the hatches. I had based them roughly on the openings in the false deck, rather than going off the deck drawing in the plans. The large one is just an error in counting the strips. I added one too many in each direction. I'll have to get out my miniature chain saw and trim all those bad boys down to size. 

 

I'm going to wait on the gun carriages until the deck is planked. There have been several log discussions about the gunport heights not being parallel to the deck. It seems to me (with absolutely zero naval knowledge) that they should all be the same height off the deck. I'm figuring that I'll have to modify the openings when I plank the bulwarks, so I'll most likely adjust them to allow for the gun angle as well.

 

Will update on the planking later today. The Admiral has entrusted me with a very important list of tasks to accomplish around the harbor.

[glbarlow]

They don’t necessarily have to be the same height off the deck, they are more tuned to the wales and the waterline.  As you note, test fit the cannons to see if any adjustments are necessary.  I know I didn’t make any. 
 

some members, and we all enjoy having them, are better at commenting than building, a grain of salt is advised.  Remember the only judge that matters is you.  It’s your ship.

Edited July 5, 2021 by glbarlow

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks, Glenn. I guess I should look at pictures of actual ships from that era to get a better feel for the gun port placement. Since battles were rarely fought on a calm sea, it's not like they could consistently plan gun angles ahead of time, so openings being relative to anything wouldn't give much of a tactical advantage. (Basing my knowledge of naval tactics on having watched Master and Commander, the definitive historical work on the subject 😁)

 

I can picture the placement of the gun ports being for aesthetics, in line with plank lines, and more likely as viewed from outside. Who cares what it looks like from the sailors' point of view. They weren't the ones taking pictures for Instagram.

 

I'm finding that the research part of ship modeling is more and more interesting. I like trying to figure out why things are a certain way.

[Freezing Parrot]

Chuck Passaro is a steely-eyed missile man! I am loving his edge bending method! I'm still in the learning curve (no pun intended), but it makes such a difference in getting the planks to lay flat around the bow. 

 

I set up my bending station right on the edge of my build board (drafting board from high school drafting class) (yes, before CAD), so it's quick and easy to make a bend, check it, and tweak it. It is a challenge to make the bends this close to the end, so I make the first bend with excess off the bow end, then trim it to length before test fitting and tweaking the bend.

 

 

So far my first planking seems to be going well. Beveling/chamfering the back edge of the planks makes it much easier to get a tight joint, and I'm sure that by the time I finish I'll have some joints I'm completely happy with.

 

 

I installed two planks from the bulwark down, then did two at the keel to make it easier to line off the first bulkhead and the prow. Now I'm going back to working from the bulwarks down. If anybody notices a problem I should correct sooner rather than later, please speak up. Thanks!

 

 

Special thanks to drjekyl and glbarlow for their patient assistance! Next round of grog is on me!

[VTHokiEE]

Looking good so far!

 

I hope I am not steering you wrong as I haven't built this model (Glenn and John please correct me if I'm off) but one thing to consider during the first layer of planking is the area at the deadwood. Ideally you want the second layer of planking to be flush with the stern post. Looking at the two planks by the keel, you may need to do a reasonable amount of sanding to achieve this. On some builds I've seen some builders terminate the first run of planks prior to the deadwood. Frequently you'll see the area below the bearding line on the deadwood sanded down a fair amount so that it plus the final layer of planking is equal to the stern post.

 

I plan on doing a better job here when I get around to my next build, I didn't fully understand the concept my first time around.

[Freezing Parrot]

Your steering is first rate. I had shaved down the deadwood as much as I dared, but because it was MDF I didn't want to push my luck. I agree that I'll have to do a bunch of chisel and sandpaper work to end up with a nice transition with the second planking. It's too bad that the double plank models don't come with wider keel, stem, and stern posts.

[drjeckl]

I believe that VTHokiEE is correct.  You should probably end planking when it hits the bearding line.  And it should be easy to shorten the planks you have already laid over the line.  I wasn't advised about a bearding line before I got here but I appreciate the concept now that I've completed the 2nd planking on my LN.  Mike, don't wait; cut out those sections now.

 

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks, John! I can see the wisdom of that. Many of the build logs I read went ahead and planked that area both times, but looking more closely, I see that it was tough for them to get the 2nd planking flush with the stern post. The less I have to struggle, the happier everyone will be. 😊

[Freezing Parrot]

First planking is progressing, although I can tell that I need a lot more practice at determining the amount of bend and how to adjust the tapers to get smoother curves. I'm not happy with the bow, as the relatively tight bend along with the narrow planks made it difficult to get a nice even set of curves.

 

John, thanks again for alerting me to avoid double planking the deadwood. The second layer on the Swift was much thinner than this one is, so I wasn't expecting the problem that would have resulted. I wasn't sure exactly where to trim the planks at the deadwood, so wood filler will be very useful when the first planking is finished. Hmmm, I wonder if I can get a bulk discount. 

 

[glbarlow]

That’s too much!  The plans should show a bearding line, it would be a lot less than that.  It looks like you’d already taken a lot from the former, plus you could sand down the first layer a lot. You need something to glue the sternpost to. You may need to replace those lower ones. Then just sand down to match the sternpost with the second layer. 
 

One problem with all the great advice is not to follow all of it, sometimes it conflicts. 
 

Hang in there. 

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks for keeping an eye on me, Glenn! My intention was to mimic the way KirbysLunchBox stopped his first planking along the bearding line, as seen in the picture below. His, of course, is much neater and streamlined.

 

 

On mine, the sanded down deadwood along the sternpost is 1.2 mm thick. The second planking is 1 mm each side, making a total width of a hair over 3 mm, which is the same thickness as the stern post. If I install the stern post after the second planking, that should work out fine, right? Or am I overlooking something else (again)?

 

By the way, how do you insert a link to a post in another thread so that it shows up like a quote from the same thread? I've also seen where a user's name is included as a link, but I can't figure out how to do that either.

 

[glbarlow]

You put @username while your typing the post and a drop down box will appear with names, like @Freezing Parrot then that person gets notified.

 

There is a little icon that looks like two chain links leaning to the left when your creating your post, click on it and complete the dialog box.

 

Your can click and highlight a portion of a repliers post and a post will pop up with Quote Selection. Click on it and it will create a reply back to that person. 
 

Good, glad to see you have a plan to get you there on the first planking. My point about advice is while some of its bad, often there is good advice from two people that are opposing methods, both will work fine, but as the builder, especially as a first timers you need to choose one of the two, not do both.  Judging by the photo you’re going by you’ll be fine.  We don’t want you to be one of those builders that just stops posting. I mean MSW really needs a freezing parrot amongst us😀

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks, Glenn. Don't worry, once you get a parrot talking, it's hard to make him stop. 😁

[KirbysLunchBox]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:27 AM, Freezing Parrot said:

Thanks for keeping an eye on me, Glenn! My intention was to mimic the way KirbysLunchBox stopped his first planking along the bearding line, as seen in the picture below. His, of course, is much neater and streamlined.

 

 

On mine, the sanded down deadwood along the sternpost is 1.2 mm thick. The second planking is 1 mm each side, making a total width of a hair over 3 mm, which is the same thickness as the stern post. If I install the stern post after the second planking, that should work out fine, right? Or am I overlooking something else (again)?

 

By the way, how do you insert a link to a post in another thread so that it shows up like a quote from the same thread? I've also seen where a user's name is included as a link, but I can't figure out how to do that either.

 

Catching up on on the logs… you are well on your way. I honestly don’t know if what I did is right. I have seen it done both ways. I was just trying to plan ahead  for the second planking, which I haven’t done yet. Fingers crossed!! Going to be following along with you!

[Freezing Parrot]

First planking is complete, worst spots are filled, and hull is sanded. I've got a little bit of messing around at the stern, then second planking can commence. Slowly. Carefully. No, more carefully than that.

 

 

[Cathead]

Just read through your log so far, great work to this point. You're really doing a nice job learning how to do things and asking the right questions. I can't wait (ok, I can) to see how this turns out.

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks!

[Freezing Parrot]

I changed my mind a number of times on how to plank the last bulkhead, since the pieces end up being so small. I thought about vertical planking, but while that made it easier along each side of the stern post, out at the hull edges the pieces would be so small that they might not work well. I finally decided on horizontal planking, with the planks running full width instead of stopping where the stern post will be. I left the middle unglued, and then cut out the width of the stern post after the glue dried and the planks were shaped. Except for my uneven sanding, I think it worked out well.

 

 

 

I had to sand the outer edges of the bulwarks to bring them flush with the stern counter. In the above picture you can see that I have more to sand off on the starboard side so that there isn't a gap between the outer planking and the edge of the stern counter. Another lesson in looking ahead to the parts that will have to line up later with what is being done now.

[Freezing Parrot]

Drum roll, please... the 2nd planking has commenced. I trimmed the end of a walnut plank to fit tightly against the stem, and glued just the first half inch with CA, holding it with my fingers until it set. Then I clamped that section and used my travel iron to slowly push the plank around the curve of the bow and then up the slight rise at the stern, clamping it in place as I went. With the heat, the plank bent smoothly and easily. Once it cools, I'll glue it in place with Tightbond.

 

 

 

I am assuming that the bulwark planks are full and untapered, and that lining off the hull starts where they stop, approximately where the 1st planking starts.

[drjeckl]

That's how it worked out for me; 4 full planks then start tapering.  Although I wound up putting in 6, but then seeing what the tapering would be in the first band at the bow, it would be too small.  So I ripped of the last two planks.  I wound up having 7 x planks in the top band and 8 x planks in the bottom band; which did not include the garboard blank nor the the one above it.  But your mileage may vary.

 

Take a look at how the planking on the stern counter worked out.  The the part that goes above that, the stern facia, I'm not planking that, just painting it black.  One other issue you may run into, is without the facia in, how are you going to terminate those 4 top planks that end there?  And realize that the facia is going to need to be bent slightly.  It may be tougher to get the facia on to the counter with those planks there.  I put the facia on before those upper planks went it.  I had a bear of a problem with that as well.  Hope you plan goes better.

Edited July 13, 2021 by drjeckl

[glbarlow]

I'd suggest trying heat bending the plank off the ship and dry fitting the plank to fit before gluing it on rather bending it as you glue it on.  Bevel the leading edge to about 30 degrees to fit the stem and bevel to the top edge slightly of each plank to tightly fit the one above it. You're correct no tapering for the ones over the gun port pattern but start tapering after those the rest of the way. Pause about half way down and plank up from the bottom for at least two maybe three rows.  That way any adjusting you have to do as you finish the side is don under the belly where it won't show.  

 

You're on a roll now 

[Freezing Parrot]

2 hours ago, drjeckl said:

One other issue you may run into, is without the facia in, how are you going to terminate those 4 top planks that end there?  And realize that the facia is going to need to be bent slightly.  It may be tougher to get the facia on to the counter with those planks there.  

Ah, good points. I will address that before I continue. Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

 bevel to the top edge slightly of each plank to tightly fit the one above it. 

What method do you use to bevel the edge? I've been using a small sanding block, with the plank laying flat at the edge of my building board, but there's probably a better way.

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, Freezing Parrot said:

What method do you use to bevel the edge?

 

I use my Byrnes sander for the leading edge since I want them precise and tight fit. The top edges I use little hand made sanding blocks, I’ve shown them in my logs. The top doesn’t have to be that precise,it’s more to get the top inside edge off

[Freezing Parrot]

Thanks, Glenn. I'm glad I wasn't doing it the hard way. 😊

 

After further review, I've decided to install the stern fascia after the 2nd planking, running the planks past and then trimming them flush with the fascia supports. I'm going to cut a block to the curve that the fascia needs, soak the fascia and clamp it to the form. That should make it easier to install . Time will tell.

[Freezing Parrot]

So far so good on the 2nd planking. I decided to take it slow and use only PVA glue and clamps, rather than CA glue at intervals. The only real reason is that it will force me to slow down and enjoy the process rather than rushing to finish. Plus it gives me time to reread other build logs, read new ones, participate in forum discussions, and think about customizations to my model. So, win-win.

 

As you can see in the picture, I laid out all the planking strips so I could keep the color fairly uniform. There were a few strips that were very dark, so I'll save them as extras or for the part of the hull that gets painted anyway.

 

 

I experimented with the cannons while glue dried, trying to find a way to add capsquares over the trunnions. The pieces are so small that strips of brass, paper, or wire weren't really feasible for me. I dipped a toothpick in PVA glue and put one tiny drop on top of the trunnion, let it dry, then used the toothpick again to carefully lay a thread of glue across the trunnion, up and over the first dot of dried glue. 

 

 

Once that dried, I used a toothpick to carefully apply black paint to the dried glue, and ended up with what I think is a passable capsquare. In the pic below, the cannon at the top has the capsquares, the one below does not.

 

 

Before I spend lots of time hunched over the work table trying to keep my hands from shaking while applying glue and paint, has anyone out there found another method, either easier or more realistic?

 

Now that I see the cannon carriages in closeup, I'm cringing that I didn't file off the mold line across the wheels. I think I'll do that before I go much further. Otherwise it will annoy me. I was thinking of repainting the wheels brown anyway.

[PRS]

Good choice on sorting the planks. I had to do that also on mine as there was quite a bit of difference in the colors.

 

Also good choice to slow down. I read where Chuck stated to slow down and enjoy the build and it sure makes a difference.

[glbarlow]

I use black masking tape cut into 1 or 2 mm strips with an exacting knife I got from Amazon. I’m not sure about consistency using beads of glue. 

 

seems like you need some 18/0 and 10/0 paint brushes, easier than a toothpick. 

[Cathead]

My hands shake a bit, too, I've learned to balance my forearms or even wrists on something when doing delicate work. It makes a huge difference. Apologies if you're already doing that; it was a bit of a revelation to me.