Artefacts from HMS Janus

[Kevin Kenny]

HMS Janus. She sank in1800 in Trinidad. these were recovered in the 1970's from the wreck. we actually have a piece of rope embedded in coral. I was able to get them from the diver that picked them up.

 

Kevin

[BenD]

Very cool, Thanks for sharing!

[Kevin Kenny]

She was launched in 1776, so that block/deadeye would be 240 years old. Not sure the rope would be that old.

[Kevin Kenny]

Other artifacts recovered from the wreck site which were donated by divers that had collected over the years.

[Seahawk1313]

Hi Kevin, Looks like your next ship modelling project, HMS Janus? -Hal

[Kevin Kenny]

Long ahead of you. I purchased Harold Haha’s book which details his build of the Robuck and later purchased his plan from his family. So this model is the next in line. One of the ships the HMS Ulysses brought my ancestor to Trinidad in 1797. So imagine  my surprise when i discovered her sister ship sunk in Trinidad in 15 ft of water. When i do find a permanent home for  the artifacts i plan to donate the model. I will also arrange an extensive detailing of the wreck site. Unfortunately the site has been ravaged by divers over the years so it is of little archaeological value today. All the cannons are there but the anchors are long gone. The sea bottom is littered with brass dowels.  I have been contacting many of the divers who have picked the wreck over the years and thats how i have been recovering the artifacts. Unfortunately my wife is not as pleased as i am, as large pieces of brass are appearing at home and do not match our decor.
I haven't decided on the scale of the model, Hahn’s plans are 1/8’ but i have enjoyed building in 1/4” with the Swan. If i were to keep the  model at home or pass it to my kids it should be 1/8 but if it goes on public display 1/4 would be much better. I still have time as i feel the HMS Thorn will take most of this year to complete.

[allanyed]

Kevin,

If you are going to build Janus 1778 at 1:48, am I correct in assuming you have the four sheets of contemporary plans for her from RMG?  Maybe they would be at least a supplement if not a replacement for the Hahn plans which may or may not be as accurate when compared to the contemporary plans.  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/search/ Janus 1778  .   For scantlings she is probably very close to the scantlings in the 1745 Establishment taking into account the 1750 Establishment alterations and or Shipbuilders Repository 1788 but you can get also get a copy of the 23 page Roebuck contract which will likely be even more accurate for the Roebuck class ships including Janus.   https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-459410

 

I think you are quite fortunate.  I would absolutely love to have an artifact from a 17th or 18th century ship for which there are contemporary plans available for a project.  

Allan

Edited February 7, 2022 by allanyed

[Kevin Kenny]

Thank you Allan for taking the time to do the search. As i get closer to the build i plan to purchase all of the plans for the class. I am going to build the Ulysses not the Janus and as luck would have it there are no references to her in the NMM plan collection. I did not know about the build log and agree that will be very useful. I also want to find the accident report to complete my research. When she was wrecked there was no loss of life and much of the rigging was removed and salvaged so there should be a report somewhere which details the wreck and salvage. The local newspaper should have something in our archives here in Trinidad but i have not gone there yet to see if copies of the newspaper exist for the date following the accident. 

Also i am interesting in find any original data in the NMM archives on the invasion of Trinidad in 1797 by the British as the Ulysses played a key role being the  first ship to land troops on land, led by my ancestor Chevalier deVerteuil, a french mercenary. 

Years ago i was able to purchase a copy of the Sailing Navy list by David Lyon which help greatly with research on British  ships. 

in terms of Hahns plans i am told that his plans are excellent and extremely accurate. Its just for me to decide on the scale and any changes re the stern. It seems that there was some variation as to how the stern was  treated. I am hoping that when i get all the maritime museum plans that I may find reference to the Ulysses. Perhaps even in the build notes you reference. This is what happen with the build of the Thorn when i was able to find reference to her in the NMM frame layout plan that David and Greg did not pick up. Sometimes research can be as much fun as building the model. 
Cheers

Kevin

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, Kevin Kenny said:

I did not know about the build log and agree that will be very useful.

Kevin,  Did you mean the contract versus the build log? 😀  

 

I found drawings of Ulysses 1779 on the RMG site including lines and body plan as well as an inboard profile but note that the writing on the plans themselves only name Roebuck.  In the description from RMG it states that the drawings are appropriate for 16 additional ships of the Roebuck class including Janus and Ulysses.  For the deck plans, I suspect the Janus plans will be very close if not identical for all the ships.    https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/ Ulysses 1779      

Note that the Hahn drawings have differences with the RMG drawings.  An example of the upper deck is below.  Some might not worry about these minor discrepancies but your build logs show you are meticulous, which I applaud.

Allan

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by allanyed

[Kevin Kenny]

According to Lyon it says” the earlier ship of the class had what appeared to be  a ‘two level’ stern like larger twin deckers, with windows on two separate levels. the Janus was one of these.  In the case of the Ulysses this is uncertain.those ships marked with *** are those for which the stem is uncertain. “

[Kevin Kenny]

This could be why some of the main deck layout  is different. Ill have to go back and read Hahns comments on the build. He covers the model extensively in the book.