Various applications of 3D drawing

[Kevin-the-lubber]

6 minutes ago, bricklayer said:

90-day trial

You're absolutely right - I don't know why I originally read it as 2 weeks. In which case I may give it a look. I liked everything I heard about rhino, but unlike f360, when I started playing it was just unintuitive, maybe this is better.

[3Dships]

Well, if it is so easy I would love to see some of your Fusion 360 work (-: Never tried it and not going to either because it's cloud & subscription based. Multinational software companies like AutoDesk want us all to work in the cloud so they can mine more valuable private data.

 

I suppose what tools you pick depends on what you want to achieve with them. It's easy enough to slap together some objects in a 3D CAD or modelling package and they might look good on your screen but if there's "naked or non-manifold edges" in your objects they are not really "solid" and our 3D prints might fail amongst all the other issues...

 

Have been using MOI 3D for Donkeys years and got a license when it was still cheaper but even at it's current price you will not find much beter al though it's always wise to keep an eye on any new kids on the block course (-:

 

 

 

Regards, Hans  

[RichardG]

FYI, Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal). It is cloud based as you say (although files can be saved in an offline (local computer) cache). Is it the best? For me it's working well. My usage is for 3D printing and designing parts to be made on my lathe and mill. However, my 3D printing is not for models. I make jigs, brackets, tool holders, etc.. My last drawing was a prototype for a bracket to be made on the mill from aluminum (when I finally get it right 😧). I chose Fusion 360 because it seemed best for me and the price was right. There is a steep learning curve but I actually found it easier to learn than all my previous attempts in 2D cad - which was a surprise. Like learning most complex things nowadays, internet searching is essential. 

 

 

[Dr PR]

The DesignCAD program has seen better days, and it has a lot of bugs. But I continue to use it because I am familiar with it and it is much easier to use than any of the other half dozen CAD programs I have used.

 

Most programs have just one fixed user interface, and often I find that the menus and commands make no sense (Photoshop is an excellent example of a user hostile user interface). DesignCAD allows you to execute each command/function in five different ways, menus, keystrokes, tool bars, command line and macros. You can create your own menus, or assign functions to keyboard keys/key combinations, and you can create custom tool bars with icons for the commands you use the most. A command line where you type in command sequences is a throwback to the early days. And you can create macros that you can assign to menus, tool icons, key combinations and use in command lines. You can modify or disable all of the original menus, tool bars and keyboard layouts. Some users have generated their own custom user interfaces.

 

Something I rarely see mentioned for CAD and drawing programs is macros or a programming language. I know trying to learn a programming language in addition to learning how to use a CAD program is probably the last thing you want to do. But it can be useful for command sequences you use often. For example, DesignCAD has a function to Set Drawing Center (the point that the view rotates around) and a separate function to Rotate View around the drawing center. I got tired of repeating the two commands so I use a macro that combines them into one operation - point and click then drag the cursor to rotate the view. I then redefined the keystroke that started the original Rotate View function to execute the macro.

 

Macros can be created just by starting the macro record function and then performing a sequence of commands. When you stop macro recording you give the macro a name. Or you can write a more complex program in the BasiCAD language, a modified BASIC for CAD work, and save it as a macro. Macros are recorded in plain ASCII text that you can edit over and over if you need to.

 

Macros can be general drawing functions that prompt for certain variables, such as the number of times to repeat a command or the specific dimensions of the objects that are generated. They can be quite complex and can even execute other macros. One fellow wrote a program that unfolds 3D objects into flat planes. It is very useful for generating 2D patterns that can be folded into a 3D shape. Another macro generates an exploded parts view. I have done these things manually and even for simple objects and assemblies it can take quite a bit of time. But with the macros you just start them running and go get a cup of coffee!

 

One thing to look for in a program is the ability to customize it to fit your personal work style. After you have been using the program for a while the ability to tweak the way it operates can save you a lot of time, energy and frustration.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Dr PR

[Kevin-the-lubber]

8 hours ago, 3Dships said:

I would love to see some of your Fusion 360 work

Just follow the links to either my victory or Cutty sark log. Page 4 on the victory log will show you an assembly comprising about 60 interdependent parts, all done in the one file so I could develop them in situ, so to speak and view them individually, just some, or all, at will. But there are way, way better examples of f360 out there than my work. I wouldn’t say f360 is easy, more that multi component is just there by design so that is easy. As are all the functions like combining, cutting, intersecting and apart from when I’ve used it for meshes, I don’t ever have non-manifold issues, just design, export as an stl and print.

 

Thinking back, I think actually that the reason I went with f360 was because there are so many good tutorials and I happened upon one set in particular that had me up and running in about an hour, having previously given up trying to learn it intuitively. I know there are tons of tutorials for rhino as well but it looks like you need to spend many hours being taught the basics before you can get going.

 

As Richard says, there’s still quite a learning curve with f360, but I sense that this is probably true of all powerful cad packages. For me the difficulty has been less that of learning how to use this or that functionality, which is generally obvious once you’ve learned the basics, but how to work around the limitations and flaws. Would I pay to use f360? Certainly not what they charge and part of the reason I should explore alternatives is because I can see autodesk charging even hobbyists at some point. But as a free (at this time) option it’s pretty good.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Kevin-the-lubber

[3Dships]

Obviously, still needs more detail & textures but the attached 3D Pen Drawing is just one example of the many different things you can do with a 3D ship model. 

[3Dships]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:43 AM, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Just follow the links to either my victory or Cutty sark log

 

As Richard says, there’s still quite a learning curve with f360

Hi Kevin, very impressive that stern part of the Victory but keep in mind that I started from scratch less than a month ago with this "Vapor de Pesca", its not one of the very few preserved well documented "famous" vessels either. I did not start this thread to end up with another pointless discussion about what is the best 3D CAD software. I never used F360 so I can't comment on it & without a doubt F360 might offer the most complete toolset because AutoDesk is a huge corporation as compared to the single developer behind MOI-3D. I simply object to big corporations trying to monopolise the market and the "free for hobbyists" is a good example of trying to lock newbies in since switching complicated toolboxes is always going to be a frustrating with regards to productivity. Your posts on 3D printing parts are prove that it requires craftmanship, experience & understanding the limitations of your tools.

 

Because I have gathered experience with the many different commercial applications of 3D ship models the "Vapor the Pesca" is simply a research exercise in finding an sufficiently efficient workflow that enable construction of one 3D model that can perform these various different purposes. It's a bit like the "holy grail" of 3D modelling I guess because not so long ago CAD was for designing "real" objects and 3D modelling for "virtual" objects but thanks to things like 3D printing these two separate fields have started to blend. MOI 3D was developed from the start with that multipurpose aspect of 3D modelling at it's very core. Ship design and building involves art & craft as well so that was the reason why I have been experimenting on the side with MOI 3D for a long time even though I produced commercial 3D stuff with completely different 3D modelling software. I was reading that F360 is being used by game developers too these days for example.

 

It's interesting that 3D printer users have been making hard copies of my 3D ship models for well over a decade now even though I never constructed these with that specific purpose in mind. I guess much effort, energy, plastic and chemicals has been wasted? I would like to think that I will end up producing "real" ship models in the future again but unfortunately there's only 24 hours in a day and for the time being I still need to focus on investing time further developing my 3D craft & skills as to come up with that perfect multi-purpose 3D ship model. Obviously, it doesn't help either that with regards to my personal projects I prefer to re-construct the largely forgotten and undocumented common workhorses of the 7 seas. Typically, 3D models of pretty much any automobile or aircraft that ever existed have already been produced but of those countless watercraft humanity produced over the centuries rather few exist as yet.

 

Regards, Hans 

 

  

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Hi Hans, thanks for the compliment but, as you rightly observe, that took me forever and, for the time being anyway, killed my interest in working on the Victory. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all evangelistic about F360 and will change horses in a heartbeat when I'm ready to take on another learning curve, not least because I really dislike the trend towards subscriptions, aka 'renting'. 

[3Dships]

Already Friday again, time flies if you're having fun. Added some more details & re-did the wheelhouse with inside & real windows, then it was time to check if I made any mistakes by breaking the model down in parts, quickly slapping on some quick & dirty materials on in Blender & render some pix. Noticed a few tiny mistakes but they are easy to fix.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Beautiful!