HMS Victory by Demostenes - Airfix - 1/180 - PLASTIC

[Demostenes]

Hello,

 

I ve recently started with this kit. It is my first scalemodel sail ship (actually second model after more than 26 years pause) , so I am not sure what is reasonably possible in this scale (and what I will be able to do), but this is what is fun on such project. I have no ambitions to finish fast, just have fun by trying various approaches, inventing new ones, remaking things to achieve better results, etc...I have not much free time in my life (small daughter), so it will probably take lot of time. But it does not matter, goal is to have a fun and create something nice. 

 

Currently I started working on the hull and I am studying various resources (huge thanks to Shipman) including this forum (there are indeed some inspiring builds). I also bought veneer deck, some rigging accesories (https://www.hismodel.com/articles-category-38), some small resin parts (https://scalewarship.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1303&search=victory&description=true) and photo-etch (https://scalewarship.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1292 and https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234932536-scalewarships-hms-victory-etch-set/). I am not sure I will use everything from these photo etches, for example hammocks looks unnatural (everything too straight), wooden gratings have mostly higher number of holes than real ship, so they dont look well, etc...Well, I will see, I have already some ideas. First I have to do some small POCs, what is feasible and what not. 

[Ian_Grant]

I always enjoy a Victory build, and there aren't so many at this scale.

 

Are you aware of Noel Hackney's little book on Victory, in the "Classic Ships and how to model them" series? His book is written for builders of your airfix 1/180 model and provides many many "upgrade" suggestions as well as complete rigging instructions. Well worth the price.

 

Meanwhile, I look forward to following you.

[Demostenes]

7 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Are you aware of Noel Hackney's little book on Victory, in the "Classic Ships and how to model them" series? 

Yes, I am studying this one and The Anatomy of Nelson´s ships.

[Demostenes]

Finally I was able to finish basic painting of the hull. Maybe I will later add little bit of weathering, but now I am more focusing on various details and approach how to reproduce them in this build.

 

 

 

 

I ve added little bit of felt on these supports, to not scratch the hull:

 

 

[Ian_Grant]

Looks great!  I took a look at those after-market parts links you mentioned, wow are they ever nice for upgrades. I particularly like the belfry railings which I understand from Hackney the kit omits completely.

[shipman]

Can I make a suggestion?

 

The Airfix 'stand' leaves a lot to be desired.

 

At this stage it would be easy to make something more substantial.

 

I'd find a couple of brass or stainless threaded bolts, drill the keel to take them and epoxy them in, ensuring they are square and straight and long enough for your final display.

 

Then source a couple of matching chess men. Drill through the center, the hole isn't critical just a little wider than the bolt.

 

Carefully remove the 'decorative' top, making sure the top is square. Then cut a slot in each just wide enough to take the keel.

 

Pass the embedded bolts through your handsome new pedestals, then through a building board of your choice and secure with nuts and washers.

 

Eventually the building board can be replaced by whatever display base you choose.

 

It took longer to write this than to make the pedestals themselves (handwork will do the job; no lathe needed).

 

Once done, your model will be secure and capable of being supported safely at any angle.

[Demostenes]

3 hours ago, shipman said:

Can I make a suggestion?

 

The Airfix 'stand' leaves a lot to be desired.

 

At this stage it would be easy to make something more substantial.

 

I'd find a couple of brass or stainless threaded bolts, drill the keel to take them and epoxy them in, ensuring they are square and straight and long enough for your final display.

 

Then source a couple of matching chess men. Drill through the center, the hole isn't critical just a little wider than the bolt.

 

Carefully remove the 'decorative' top, making sure the top is square. Then cut a slot in each just wide enough to take the keel.

 

Pass the embedded bolts through your handsome new pedestals, then through a building board of your choice and secure with nuts and washers.

 

Eventually the building board can be replaced by whatever display base you choose.

 

It took longer to write this than to make the pedestals themselves (handwork will do the job; no lathe needed).

 

Once done, your model will be secure and capable of being supported safely at any angle.

Thanks. You ve put a bug in my head, now I have to think how to make good stand

[Demostenes]

14 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Looks great!  I took a look at those after-market parts links you mentioned, wow are they ever nice for upgrades. I particularly like the belfry railings which I understand from Hackney the kit omits completely.

 

Actually I should already have on the way 8k resin 3d printer (though it will probably take some time until it arrives, it was recently funded kickstarter from company, who already delivered several times, so not that much risky). I spend many years modelling for computer games as semi-professional hobby, so 3d modelling is nothing problematic for me and potential to increase detail is tremendous. Things like railings are very simple to model, so I am now studying various details and soon I will start preparing 3d models. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Demostenes

[Demostenes]

Little bit of progress, this was my first drybrushing attempt ever. Trophy of arms still needs little bit of tuning:

 

I am still thinking if it is worthy to use this photo etch for windows. In that case I would have to probably build basic layout of cabins, or at least some black box with little bit of depth:

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Demostenes

[shipman]

It may be of benefit to not overthink this model.

Your treatment of the stern looks admirable to me.

By all means use the photo etch, but remember at this scale you won't see an awful lot through the windows.

If you treat the windows (from behind) with slightly watered down pva glue that would give an illusion of glazing when it dries clear, but not perfectly clear. That would be a step up from where you are now.

But ask yourself if the effort is worth the work?

[Ian_Grant]

Nice stern painting at this scale especially!  I agree with shipman, it would be a LOT of work to cut out the windows to replace with etch. I didn't even do that for my Heller Victory.

[Demostenes]

I started to do decks, but I dont like gratings. This is something to solve when my 3d printer arrives. 

[shipman]

Is that decking from HisModel?

 

At this scale I've had excellent success using square format etch; a wide variety of sizes available; often from model rail sites. Worth considering and a lot cheaper than that 3D printing malarkey 🤣

[Demostenes]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Is that decking from HisModel?

 

At this scale I've had excellent success using square format etch; a wide variety of sizes available; often from model rail sites. Worth considering and a lot cheaper than that 3D printing malarkey 🤣

It is this one: https://www.scaledecks.eu/shop339226f0/Wood-Deck-for-1-180-HMS-Victory-fits-Airfix-kit-p163968818
 

I have some etch meant directly for this model, but I dont like it. Number of holes absolutely does not correspond with reality. Also real grating were not flat, but slightly curved. To model this in 3d modelling tool would be really simple, so this will be first thing I will try to make and print  I hope I will have my printer to the end of the year, it will have 0,02mm precision, so this should give reasonable quality even in this scale.

I have s

[Demostenes]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Worth considering and a lot cheaper than that 3D printing malarkey 🤣

We will see  I am actually really looking forward to this process, so far I was only doing 3d models (for games), never printing anything.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Demostenes

[shipman]

I did say ''a wide variety of sizes available''.

You simply have the wrong one!

When you do I'm certain for this model at least, it would be more than adequate.

 

As for the gratings being curved, what is easier than bending the brass?

 

OK, you may not like this approach; but these mentions may be of interest to other modellers who may not wish to spend money on a printer set up, which may ultimately see limited use.

 

By all means go ahead with your 3D printed version, I wish you compete success.

[Demostenes]

7 hours ago, shipman said:

I did say ''a wide variety of sizes available''.

You simply have the wrong one!

When you do I'm certain for this model at least, it would be more than adequate.

 

As for the gratings being curved, what is easier than bending the brass?

 

OK, you may not like this approach; but these mentions may be of interest to other modellers who may not wish to spend money on a printer set up, which may ultimately see limited use.

 

By all means go ahead with your 3D printed version, I wish you compete success.

 

Yeah, it seems, the set (https://scalewarship.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1292) is not done properly. Some of these gratings are OK, some not. 

 

But problem is little bit deeper, since I added veneer deck, it added thickness and grating frames are now not that visible. In reality it seems like cca 15-20 cms, which  is cca1mm in this scale and it isnt by far. 
So my goal is to add little bit of height. I cant do that just with brass, I need to modify it whole. Probably nonsense doing it in "old school" way, but should be easy with 3d print. I will take it as proof of concept what is possible and what not...If I fail, I will indeed use your method and find something more suitable, I really appreciate your advices. Other option could be to make own etch and make it "3d" via foldable sides, but this is far more work than 3d print (and I doubt I would be able to do it on the first attempt).

 

I generally like to discover new approaches and if I fail, well, I failed. There is lots of experience even from failure. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Demostenes

[shipman]

Raising the area around the gratings (forget what they are called) is quick and easy......just re-build with plastic strip.

10 mins; penny's.

[Demostenes]

While waiting for 3d printer (should be to the end of the year), I painted some other parts. First two clorors went +- OK, but adding blue stripes seems like failure to me. I tried several times, including some masking, but it seems in this scale there is not good solution. Maybe redesign this piece and make small "recess", so color would be physically separated like on real ship.

[Bob Fraser]

Not sure of the actual size of these pieces (mine is still cellophane wrapped!)  Would you be able to scrape out a recess, or will you be trying for a closer representation?

[shipman]

I managed to paint the head-rails on my 1:600 iteration.

A good thin but long bristled sable brush and well stirred enamel. in one stroke!

The longer bristles sort of compensates for hand shake.

 

 

[shipman]

Ooops! may be I didn't, though I'm sure I did?

Anyway, the above tip does actually work.

[Demostenes]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Ooops! may be I didn't, though I'm sure I did?

Anyway, the above tip does actually work.

Thanks, I will try. In this scale that blue stripe has cca 0,5-0,75mm. Btw, really nice model, I cant imagine how you did this in 1/600.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demostenes

[Demostenes]

3 hours ago, Bob Fraser said:

Not sure of the actual size of these pieces (mine is still cellophane wrapped!)  Would you be able to scrape out a recess, or will you be trying for a closer representation?

Actualy I was thinking about creating in 3d and printing....This is fun project for me and I like to test various approaches. There are also some details missing, so it would be opportunity to add them.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demostenes

[Demostenes]

While I am waiting for 3d printer, I ve decided to do some details. I really like hammocks nettings, it is great detail. I ve bought some photoetched ones, but they are too straight, too perfect, it simply does not look good without real nettings (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234932536-scalewarships-hms-victory-etch-set/). So I was experimenting with some other approaches. Wire was obvious solution, first I tried 0,3mm copper one, but it is quite soft and for bigger parts it would bend. So I ve used 0,3mm steel wire. Easy to work with and it is quite sturdy. As proof of concept, I ve decided to do the smallest ones. If I can do theese, I can to rest easily.

 

There was quite steep learning curve. The biggest problem was doing these small ones similar and in reasonable time. I ve spent 15-20 minutes on one and literally 0,5mm difference was enough to make it look totally different:
 

 

After some time I ve figured out proper way and started to produce them in bigger ammount. One takes cca 1-2 minutes, which is acceptable. Eyes are little bit overscaled, but there was not way how to make them smaller (and looking similar in bigger ammount):

 

Even thou I had to modify small cheap kettle pliers to be able to go under 1mm eye size:

 

Other issue was soldering. Gluing it directly on plastic wouldnt hold, so only way is to solder it on small piece of copper. Cooper wire went without any issues, but I had problem to solder steel wires, which was solved by proper flux and some tricks from youtube: 

 

 

Another problem was, that I have to be quick, or heat will loosen already soldered ones. but after some time, I figured repeatable way how to do it and since then I was quite fast:

 

 

 

 

I think this looks quite OK. The bigger ones will be piece of cake, they are 2-3x bigger. So now I need to do some painting and put there some netting, but I already have some ideas, this shouldnt be big problem. 

 

So I know, what I will do during december   To not get some OCD, my plan is to do just 5-10 pieces daily which will take 5-20 minutes and I can finish in one month or sooner.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Demostenes

[Demostenes]

I didnt have that much time I expected thanks to some illness, but there is some progress:

 

 

 

 

I also started preparing parts, which I believe deserve more detail. There will be more:

 

We will see, what printer can handle when it arrives (should be soon). Printing resolution (0,02mm) should be enough to print these details....There will be probably some tuning needed to be able to fit it onto model. In case of bigger issues I will 3d scan that model part via photogrammetry and use it directly in modelling tool as "template".

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Demostenes

[Demostenes]

Goal of this is to print it as two separate parts, so painting will became piece of cake: 

[Demostenes]

There is indeed question, how much of these details is printable. Also I will probably split it into parts and assemble after printing. But such adjustments are simple. 

[Demostenes]

[Demostenes]

Lets see what will come from this. But railings are worth of trying somehow...

 

Let