Mayflower Binnacle, Capstan(s) and Stove

[acaron41120]

Does anyone building or has finished building the Mayflower know where the binnacle, capstan(s), stove and water pump were located on board? Thanks in advance for any thoughts or where I could go to find out.

[allanyed]

There are a lot of drawings of Dutch fluyts on the internet.  I have no idea as to the accuracy including the one below.   

Allan

Edited February 5, 2023 by allanyed

[Gregory]

In the book " The Frigate Constitution And Other Historic Ships " F. Alexander Magoun has a chapter on the Mayflower.

The information seems to be based on standards for similar vessels, with no mention of documented facts, but he speaks of some features as if they are facts.

 

He offers a plan for the deck.

I have circled where he shows the ' Stove Pipe '

 

However, he wrote of a 'galley' that must be under the forecastle deck show above.

This is what he writes about the pumps.  The ' gun deck ' would have been below what he shows as ' The Waist ' in the plan above, so the pumps he describes would not have been visible if your model is similar.

 

Here is what he says about the capstan.  It seems unlikely that the bars would have been mounted permanently, but others may know if it was in fact the practice on these type of boats. 

There is no mention of a binnacle, so it is possible just a compass in a box was used as needed.

 

In lieu of other trusted sources, I think you will be safe in following these suggestions, and making it look good to satisfy your goal.

 

I notice in the image Allan provided you can see the kettle and pumps as Magoun describes, but with the capstan forward of the main mast.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Gregory

[Roger Pellett]

The capstan of the Red Bay Galleon, identified as the Basque built ship San Juan c1780 is located on her main deck beneath the quarterdeck.  Not English built but at least verified by an actual archeological find.

 

Roger

[Gregory]

Roger,

The Mayflower was possibly built before 1600 and definitely before 1620 .  Is there any good reason to believe  the capstan location was similar to  a Basque built ship of 1780?

[acaron41120]

Thanks for all your help. My kit of the Mayflower does not have much detail...mainly decks, cannon ports (sans cannons) and two lifeboats. I want to add a little detail to my build. Even though you can not see the stove or pipe, I might add at least the pipe through the forecastle just to port of the grating. I will add a capstan  but just aft the main mast. So far I have replaced the plastic pieces in the kit by making those pieces out of wood (the beakhead was a real pain).

Edited February 5, 2023 by acaron41120

[allanyed]

Allen

There are four Dutch maritime museums that I found with a quick search on-line that may be of help if you contact them regarding your project for a Dutch fluyt such as the Mayflower.  

Allan

[Roger Pellett]

Gregory,

First, major typo!  San Juan is believed to have been built about 1570.

 

 Second, None whatsoever!  However, as I am unaware of any contemporary evidence of the deck arrangement of a small c1600 three masted English Merchant Ship following  known practice for another North AtLantic built vessel of the same era makes sense to me.  This also gets it out of the way from the an hatch

 

Allan,  Does recent research classify Mayflower as a fluyt?  I always thought that she was English built.

 

Roger

Edited February 6, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[Gregory]

 

This is another excerpt from the Magoun book.   While nothing specific, the impression I get from the book is that it w as an English built ship.  

I have no knowledge of the expertise of R.C. Anderson.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Gregory

[allanyed]

This thread got me doing some digging and there was reference to the fluyt like shape, but none claimed she was Dutch built.  Everything indicates she was English built but I thought looking depictions as well as Mayflower II,  the layouts might have some similarities to the fluyt plans.   As there is no contemporary information on the details being discussed the fluyt layout idea may be completely off base,........ or not. Sorry for causing any confusion. 😀

[rcweir]

In William Baker's The New Mayflower Her Design and Construction, Barre Gazette, 1958, he talks at length about how he arrived at his design.  It looks to me that he's done a thorough job researching what he ultimately produced and he gives sources for anyone who wants to follow in his steps.  I don't recall that he discussed the possibility that the ship wasn't built in England.  (But he does consider the possibility it was clinker-built!)  I'll also mention that the book includes a very nice set of plans for his conception of the original Mayflower: the plans have none of Mayflower II's concessions  for the modern era.  And besides the plans, the book contains much specific detail that is useful for modelers.