size of serving

[Boccherini]

I have started to make up shrouds and stays. One thing stands out: the thread used for serving the lower shrouds looks completely inappropriate / out of proportion on the shrouds and stays further up the mast. It's particularly obvious on single stays/shrouds that have been bent around the mast to form an eye when viewed from the side. The frapping turns add to the bulk. I've tried leaving the frapping turns off, still looks a bit bulky from the side.

Are there any guidelines for:

1)  the correct sizing of serving?

2)  the number of and distance between bands of lashing on single shrouds/stays with an eye?

Please excuse any incorrect terminology, I'm in "uncharted waters".

 

Grant.

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Boccherini

[popeye2sea]

I'm not entirely sure what you refer to as serving.  Serving is sort of an outer covering applied to rope to keep the wet out of the strands.  It is part of a system of coverings; worming, parceling, and serving.

 

Seizings, on the other hand, are what is used to join two ropes, or two parts of a rope together side by side as in forming the eye at the top of the shroud pairs.

 

I don't know what scale you are working in, but seizings were traditionally made using marline or other small stuff, so you will want to use the smallest line you can find. On my 1:100 scale model I am using fly tying monofilament.  A typical round seizing was 7 or 9 turns followed by one less riding turns over them and then two crossing turns around the whole and between the two parts of the rope. The end of the seizing line was secured with a knot or hitch around the crossing turns.

 

When putting the seizings on the masthead eyes for each shroud pair, the seizings should be put on so that the seizings do not overlap the one below.  The idea was to prevent the seizings working (friction) against each other. The first seizing will come just below the bolster. The bolster is a piece of quarter round moulding on top of the trestle tree to ease the bending of the shroud eye over the top.

 

To seize in a dead eye on the lower shroud there are three seizings. The first is called the throat seizing and it lays horizontally and holds the parts of the shroud together over the top of the deadeye. No crossing turns are used for a throat seizing.  The second seizing is called the middle seizing and it is a round seizing clapped on midway between the deadeye and the end of the shroud. The last seizing is called the end seizing and is clapped on just below the end of the shroud.  There is also a whipping put on the end of the shroud to keep it from unlaying. Sometimes the end of the shroud is leathered (capped).

 

Regards,

Henry

[barkeater]

Grant,

I agree with Henry on the use of fly-tying thread for your seizing's if that is what you are asking.  It comes in many colors so matching your line should be no problem. Size 6/0 should work in most cases. I work in 1/48 scale. What scale are you in? I seize by making a loop of my seizing thread, passing the thread through the loop 3 times and snugging it down. Then I do a double loop and snug it down and finally an additional double loop and snug it down. These have all been laid touching one another but not overlapping. Then I hit them with a 50% pva to water solution, let it dry and snip my loose end. The results look good simulating the 7-9 turns Henry noted, and you do not add any significant bulk to ruin the outline. 

Richard

[Boccherini]

Henry, Richard,

It turned out the problem was self inflicted. I used the smallest thread on hand (DMC Cordonnet #100), which was way over size. The solution: separate the 3 strands that make up the #100. I have no idea if these are the right size, but at 1:60, they represent 8.5mm dia rope. This looks a whole lot better.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Regards,

Grant.

[allanyed]

This thread has brought up an interesting point.   There are servings on a variety of rope sizes on any given ship.  I just spent a good amount of time researching but have come up with nothing on the circumference of serving lines.  I found reference to the number of strands but nothing on diameter or circumference.   Is there such a chart with ratios of serving line size to the rope size on which it is to be used?   Until now, I have gone with what looks right, but I wonder if, like in many things on these ships of ours, there was an established list or at least a rule of thumb.   

Allan

[popeye2sea]

In Steel's Art of Rigging there are tables of rigging sizes given for ships of various tonnages and rig. In it the larger standing rigging allows seizings of up to 1-3/4 inch circ. with the smallest seizings being listed as just marline with no size given.

 

Regards,

Henry

Edited February 27, 2023 by popeye2sea

[Boccherini]

Allan &Henry,

Which gives a diameter of up to 14.2mm or approximately 9/16''.

Were seizings the same size as the serving?

It appears my 8.5mm dia serving and seizings are not far off. Underhill reckons it's better to be undersized than over. Doesn't offend those "cursed" with laser vision, who can spot anomalies at a glance from the other side of the room .

I was wondering about increasing the size when getting to the main/fore mast rigging. Some time off at present. 

 

Grant.

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, Boccherini said:

Were seizings the same size as the serving?

 

Great question, and I hope someone has an answer.   Looking at the below drawings from David Lees' Masting and Rigging book the seizings look to be between 0.16 and 0.20 times the diameter of the shroud that is being seized which is right in line with the figure Grant gives, but I can find nothing on the circumferences of serving line.   

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

[popeye2sea]

I have never read anything that gives a size for serving line.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Knocklouder]

I read on Chucks's page on his Servo machine some recommended  sizes for serving  .different sizes different  weight that sort of thing.  Might be what your lookin for.