HMS Diana 1794 by DaveBaxt - Caldercraft - 1:64

[DaveBaxt]

2 hours ago, No Idea said:

Hi Dave - the last picture that you posted is very clear and it looks like your work is spot on 👍

 

Really good luck with your build - Mark

Thank you mark and again thank you for keeping me right. Your input is always appreciated. I would also like to thank David for using his photograph and other modellers who  have helped me how to understand the rabbet and bearded line works on this model.What a great forum this has been for me personally.Best regards Dave

Edited March 19, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Good news today. After deciding that I would use maple strips for the decking. I eventually sourced some from no other than Caldercraft and received it this morning. I would like to try and fit a water way and try and scarf the peices together and also fit them by joggling or jiggling what ever it is called. I see from Jason and Davids log they have made a fantastic job and would be pleased if I could do a job as half as good as theirs. For the record this will be my first attempt at this so will need lots of help here guys. Any links to information /step by step would be even better or tips you may have would be fantastic.

             I have completed gluing some of the parts at the stern counter which wasn,t to clear on the first drawing or drawing number 2 either so thanks to Jason who was kind enough to post a few photos on his log of the stern area emabled me to figure it out. As these sections were only 3mm wide I strengthened them using some small pieces of 5mm box wood I had left over after cutting out the stem. I think Jason mentions this too. I still need to cut out the stern post from boxwood too.

         I have started filling in the lower sections for and aft with plywood to help with getting nice curves. here are some photos of the work so far. Alot of work to do here and expect a lot of dust here with the balsa wood but hopefully it will be worthwhile.

I

Edited March 24, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Continued with shaping balsa wood blocks and amazed at how much material I had to remove using a dremel. I could make an awful lot of filler out of the that lot haha.

An attempt at drilling out a hole for the spritsail mast and tried to make a template using the old plywood stem. I made this as close to the angle copied from AOTS drawing and checked I cleared the figure head. I still need to file the hole bigger to take the 11.5 mm mast ( according to james Lees book ) ) could only drill up to 8mm diameter before running into problems with the drill catching the top of the cutwater/ stem.

 

I have also made up the stern post out of boxwood but not glued this  into position, until perhaps the planking is complete. 

                   I have also fashiond a method of holding the workpiece upside down for ease of planking in an adjustble vice so that the ship can be moved at any angle required. I am not sure if this would work though. It would require leaving the decks off until the hull planking is complete and I am unsure if the decks are better being in place for strength reasons prior to planking the hull. If planking the inboard ( top of the bulkheads,inboard) gives enough strength then perhaps I could get away with this but at the moment I am unsure and will need to give this some more thought. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

A bit of progress regards marking out planking on lower deck planking but I am still scratching my head regards which to use. I tested a few maple planks with new marker pens and although this worked quite well the maple required all edges to be sanded before looking reasonable. However there is a large light brown grain running through the maple which is way out of scale. I have therefore think I will end up using the tanganyka as I tested this with the new marker pens and after sanding the edges the bleeding is much reduced here is a comparison.

I have been considering fitting a margin plank, however I have ordered some maple 1 mm sheet to make these with that and as yet I am unable to source any tanganyka 1mm sheet and only comes in 10mm wide strips max so I might have to use two planks side by side or see what it looks like with perhaps maple margin planks.I think using planks side by side might make this more complicated but might give this a go.

         The last photo is of a maple plank before sanding and you can clearly see the large grain running through it. I do wonder if this is normal for maple ?

 

Here is a photograph of my deck plank cutting station I made up.Which will hopefully save me a lot of time which can be better used sading each piece of planking idividually.

I decided to cut the lower gun deck in two as I thought it would be easier access for doing the deck planking. Also I might leave off  the gun deck until after the external planking is complete so that I can fit a jig to hold the ship upside down in a vice whilst carrying out both first and second planking. Not sure if this is feasable. It will be necessary to fit the planking to the inside of the bulwarks to give some strength in this area. before fitting the gun deck.  Hope this makes sense.

Here is a couple of photos of the jig I will be using for external planking and how it will sit in my angle adjusting vice . Not I have used bolts so they can easily be removed instead of screws. Hope this makes the planking job easier. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[No Idea]

Hi Dave  - if you are getting bleed you may not be using archival ink pens which are better than normal markers.  I use this one

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sakura-Pigma-Graphic-Chisel-Black/dp/B004CSFQ96/ref=sr_1_43?crid=2PMTZ7TRGZFG6&keywords=sakura+chisel+tip+archival+pens&qid=1680449848&sprefix=sakura+chisel+tip+archival+pens%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-43

 

Apologies if this is the kind of thing you are already using - Mark

[Gregory]

33 minutes ago, DaveBaxt said:

I do wonder if this is normal for maple ?

That looks a lot like beech to me.

 

Are you buying strips?

 

Maple veneer makes a nice source for planking strips.  If you have access to a wood-working store it's a great source for veneer, and you can pick and choose for pieces you like.

[DaveBaxt]

35 minutes ago, No Idea said:

Hi Dave  - if you are getting bleed you may not be using archival ink pens which are better than normal markers.  I use this one

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sakura-Pigma-Graphic-Chisel-Black/dp/B004CSFQ96/ref=sr_1_43?crid=2PMTZ7TRGZFG6&keywords=sakura+chisel+tip+archival+pens&qid=1680449848&sprefix=sakura+chisel+tip+archival+pens%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-43

 

Apologies if this is the kind of thing you are already using - Mark

Thank you maRk for your welcome input. The pen you suggest has already been suggested on here and seems to be much better than when first used a different make on the Tanganyka. However the chisel end of the marker looks interesting and definately might be worth a try. Thanks again for taking an interest in my log. Best regards Dave

[DaveBaxt]

36 minutes ago, Gregory said:

That looks a lot like beech to me.

 

Are you buying strips?

 

Maple veneer makes a nice source for planking strips.  If you have access to a wood-working store it's a great source for veneer, and you can pick and choose for pieces you like.

Thank you Gregory .Yes I am sourcing strips and Veneer and something I might look into. I am beginning to think you might be correct regards it being beech as it cerainly doesn,t look like your mapleveneer  or any other maple planking jobs I have seen on this forum. I am beginning to wish I had used walnut as its readily available and I haven,t had any issues with walnut in the past.

Edited April 2, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[SIDEWAYS SAM]

Hi Dave,

This looks an interesting build and I am sure it is giving you a break from rigging Endeavour.

Will be following with interest.

 

Best regards,

Sam.

[DaveBaxt]

7 hours ago, SIDEWAYS SAM said:

Hi Dave,

This looks an interesting build and I am sure it is giving you a break from rigging Endeavour.

Will be following with interest.

 

Best regards,

Sam.

Your interest is always welcome Thank you

[DaveBaxt]

After not being too pleased with the maple stock received from Caldercraft, I ended up returning to using the Tanganyka which came with the kit. I have since ordered some Tanganyka 1mm x 100m sheet from CSM  as I have decided to try fitting a margin strake using this Tanganyka , unfortunately this also has a very large grain running through it but as this is the lower gun deck and will be hardly be seen I thought  it would be ok to proceed. After the help from a few modellers on this forum I have now got some really good marker pens and after sanding the edges of each piece of planking individually  I have no more bleeding. I have attempted to copy the decking strips of the drawing in AOTS Diana using different strip widths and as most of the strips were all slightly different in width I made sure each 1 mtr plank was laid the full length of the ship and therefore could not mass produce the strips so they would not get mixed up. 

       So far i have made templates for the margin planks and cut them from the Tanganyka sheet using very sharp veritas chisels and then sanding. Hopefully the difference between port & stbd is rectified due to making templates as the position of the bulkhead uprights are slightly different. Since cutting the false deck into two it has been much easier to work with and I am no longer breaking these uprights off when attempting to fit and remove the deck whole. Here is the work so far.

 

 

will be start of the spring gardening season and not forgetting working on the rigging of the Endeavour.I am leaving the work on the Diana for a while as I am off on holiday for a few days and visiting the SS Great Britain down in Bristol. Once I return it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[SIDEWAYS SAM]

Coming along nicely Dave.

I used tanganyika strip from CMB to clad Endeavour.

I was lucky it all matched and had hardly any grain whatsoever.

Had a quick look in the Sphynx box and the strip provided is very high quality.

This will be the first kit where I haven't had to replace stripwood.

 

Enjoy your holiday.

 

Sam.

[DaveBaxt]

25 minutes ago, SIDEWAYS SAM said:

Coming along nicely Dave.

I used tanganyika strip from CMB to clad Endeavour.

I was lucky it all matched and had hardly any grain whatsoever.

Had a quick look in the Sphynx box and the strip provided is very high quality.

This will be the first kit where I haven't had to replace stripwood.

 

Enjoy your holiday.

 

Sam.

Thank you Sam. Its very frustrating getting set poor quality wood or even the wrong wood if that is possible. I might end up keeping the best of the strips or the same colour for the top deck. Sorting  the correct widths and colour is very time consuming but I suppose that is what the hobby is all about. However this is the least of my problems to what might be down the road with gun ports inline with Bulkheads etc. This is definately my biggest challenge yet!

[Beef Wellington]

1 hour ago, DaveBaxt said:

I have just realized that the internal planking stops at bulhead 5 and 16, so they won,t need shaping. Phew

Hi Dave, think it is true that it will be very hard to see the interior bulwark when the foc's'l is in place so its definitely an 'optional extra' to plank further forward....however be aware you will need to build up the forward gunports if you don't plank there.  I seem to recall that Ray went down that route on his Diana build if you have found his log.

[DaveBaxt]

9 hours ago, Beef Wellington said:

Hi Dave, think it is true that it will be very hard to see the interior bulwark when the foc's'l is in place so its definitely an 'optional extra' to plank further forward....however be aware you will need to build up the forward gunports if you don't plank there.  I seem to recall that Ray went down that route on his Diana build if you have found his log.

Thank you Jason for being able to recall this in detail. I  am assuming you mean by build up that area of the gun ports as both ways will need a square box fitted inside  between the internal and external hull   ( sorry not sure what this is called) I think I would like to extend the internal hull planking further as it finishes the job off nicely I think. However I did find Rays log and after checking the drawing, through everything into doubt. I am wondering if I could add some material at the bulkhead uprights rather than shape them to increase the gluing surface area for internal planking. Hope this makes sense and I appreciate your patiience. 

[DaveBaxt]

A big thank you to DaveEN for a great solution to hiding the Beams across the loower gun deck hatch opening.Although probably not obvious under the hatch covers but thought I would go down this route also. Might even stain these a bit to darken them. I also had to shift  No 10 A beam to the other side of the bulhead so again not to go directly across the hatch opening. I thought I would do these now in case I forget them, as these beams are not mentioned in the instruction.

[DaveBaxt]

Finished off fitting the planks to the lower gun deck and joggled 4mm planks to square off the ends of the planks. Not perfect but as this deck will not be seen except through the gun ports and as this my first attempt, it  was good practice joggling the planks into the margin plank. I am not sure if cutting the false deck into two seperate pieces was the best way forward, as I have  found that gluing the planks onto the  thin plywood without pinning the false deck onto the bulheads, has allowed the deck to curve/warp  the  wrong way ( oppisite to the natural curve of the deck) I am sure I will be able to get this right by adding more curved supports under the deck and bending the finished deck into position. I will however need to do this before planking the hull which was not my original intention, but will now be as per the instructions. If I were to do this again, I would have not have bothered with fitting margin plank and  fitted the false deck whole first and then glued the planks into position.

       One other problem I had was when cutting the  Tanganyka wood it had a tendancy of following the grain and is very soft. I ended up being very wasteful with the tanganyka strips. Sorry if this sounds like I am making excuses and I could have soaked the strips of tanganyka in water first but I also worried about shrinkage as I have not used this wood before. For what it is worth I would definitely use Maple instead if I could source it other than CC.

 

I now have the task of repairing the upper section of the bulkheads which many have broken off. I may have to strengthen these somehow and ensure they are back in their original position. I have thought about fitting them with brass pins but unsure if this will work. I definitely need to be more careful the next time i do this. This construction of the Diana has so far been way more dificult then my previous two builds, but determined to carry on.

Edited April 27, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[allanyed]

Looking good David!

I know you are a ways off, but for the 18 pounder long guns that HMS Diana 1794 carried, did the kit supply Blomefield pattern barrels?   There are 3D drawings  with scale dimensions that you can use to  have the barrels printed in 3D in black resin.  These can be done at what should be a pretty cheap price at any of the 3D printer firms local to you if the cannon that you have are not appropriate.  If you wish I can send you the 3D drawings.

Allan

  

[DaveBaxt]

Thank you Allan for what is always your appreciated input. Yes please do as it is always worth checking these things. For the record the brass cannon supplied by CC look really good and I have both oportunities of either blackening them  or airbrushing them ( now I have the necessary equipment)However as yet I havn't checked the accuracy of these against AOTS Diana and nor got around to what other modellers have decided to do in the past. I also have a few decent books on the subject so I have plenty of research to be get on with. Any advice or pointing me in the right direction is always welcome so keep it coming Best regards Dave.

Edited April 28, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[allanyed]

PMing you with drawings in 2D, 3D of barrels and 2D of both 1791 and 1795 carriage patterns, the latter of which had rubbing cleats on the carriages.

Allan

[DaveBaxt]

Ok lots of clamps to make sure that the deck halves were secured flat onto the supports( athwartship beams). Unfortunately I missed an area around the main mast were I forgot to fit some extra supports athwartships underneath, so ended up gluing a piece underneath which looks to have worked ok. I also fitted the upper gun deck as a template to ensure that the bulkhead uprights were in the correct positions whilst gluing them back into place.

             Before I build up of the inner walls where the gunports are located I need to exdend bulkeads 4 and 5 towards aft where it looks like on the drawing that the gun ports will hit No's 4 & 5 bulkheads. This has been mentioned in many previous Diana logs but as yet I am unsure as to how to proceed with this. I am toying with reinforcing the bukheads and then possibly cutting away the initial bulkead section between the two decks, but unsure at what stage to do this. Perhaps after the innerwalls are constructed or leave until after the gun ports have been cut. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

.

 

 

 

 

TThere is still another issues as to whether or not to extend the inner walls beyond bulkhead `5 . I think if I do I would need to chamfer away the inner corners of the bulkhead uprights or the distance between the inner and outer hulls will increase and then perhaps the guns would not stick out  of the gun ports as far on the curved section than at the midship section of the ship. After Allans timely intervention, ti would appear that the CC supplied guns do not comply with Bloomfields pattern and are too short anyway.

              There has been a few Diana builders who have continued with the inner walls  beyond bulkthead 5 but the thinning of the bulkheads further in this area might weaken the bulkhead uprights too much. Any help on this too, would be very much appreciated. I am currently thinking of returning to the rigging of my Endeavour, whilst I think about these issues a bit more.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Dave, please feel free to delete this as I really don't want to clutter up your log, but this may help your thought process.  The first decision is the determine the gunport positioning, with an even spacing - I remember fiddling about out with this a lot, rather than relying on the plan position (i.e. figuring out the position based on the equal distance from other ports).  This is all rough work, so plenty of time to neaten it up and strengthen where necessary.  And yes, the supplied cannons are atrocious, seemingly having footballs for cascabels aside from all the dimension issues!

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

39 minutes ago, Beef Wellington said:

Hi Dave, please feel free to delete this as I really don't want to clutter up your log, but this may help your thought process.  The first decision is the determine the gunport positioning, with an even spacing - I remember fiddling about out with this a lot, rather than relying on the plan position (i.e. figuring out the position based on the equal distance from other ports).  This is all rough work, so plenty of time to neaten it up and strengthen where necessary.  And yes, the supplied cannons are atrocious, seemingly having footballs for cascabels aside from all the dimension issues!

 

Thank you Jason for your input as it is always very much appreciated. I have read the first few pages of your log several times and it is your Diana together with Dunnock and DavidENs build that has provoked my thoughts as to what is needed for this build. I can see from  your Diana  log that I do need to ensure that the gun ports have to be the same distance apart but where to start measuring from is the problem ,as the drawing is not to be trusted.

            May I also ask a question regarding the inboard hull planking beyond bulkhead 5  and whether or not you shaped the inboard edge of the of the top of the bulkead on the forward bulhead to maintain the same distance between the hull walls around the forward bend and to give more contact surface area for the planks? Hope that makes sense and forgive me if not. Thank you again for your time and patience. Best regards Dave

 

[Beef Wellington]

I 'started' at the rearmost bulkhead and which positioned that gun port.  The rear of that gunport was flush against the full bulkhead with no adjustment.  From there the other positions were determined, 30mm apart which resulted in only the first two bulkheads requiring 'treatment'.  Based on differences on each it and construction, I'm sure this could vary a little which is no big deal.  There is one pair of ports where the steps are located that are further apart as indicated on plans, I made a really silly error by mispositioning this which had to be corrected.  I didn't find a satisfactory solution that avoided having to deal with bulkheads 3&4 keeping a consistent port separation.  Good luck!

 

Interestingly, I found at a later date on NMM plans that there was in fact another port added further forward, this could only be a bridle port with no cannon as it would be located in the manger area.  It would be very difficult to show this port opened, but had I known I may have attempted to show this in a closed position.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Beef Wellington

[DaveBaxt]

Thank you again Jason for your reply which will hopefully go someway in helping me make the correct decision moving  forward. Best regards Dave 

[DaveBaxt]

Gun port positions

                 Any one who has previously built the Diana can testify this may cause a few issues down the line. The instructions states that the gunports should be 30mm apart but the drawing suggests they are anywhere between 28 and 38 mm and if starting from bulkhead No 16 and carrying on with an equal distance of  30mm then you end up with the gunports lining up with bulkheads 4 and 5. I have made a template and traced the gunports at 31.5mm apart and if I start just 3mm forward of bulkhead  No.16 then this ensures the gun ports are clear of the bulkheads (just) and I also temporarily fitted the masts & channels and found that there will hopefully be no issues with the deadeye chain plates crossing the gunports and should be clear of the gun barrels. There is however the position of the ladders and the vertical protectors of  some concern. These will have to be moved so as to still be between gunport 7 and 8 as per drawing however it will be necessary to alter the upper gun port template  ( bulwark)by reducing the forward edge so is not in line with the ladders at the deck. Hope this makes sense

I believe this is a small price to pay rather than start moving different gun ports and not cutting out sections of bulkheads 4 & 5b but still maintaining  the equal distance required . 

 

 

Update on Bloomfield Cannon Barrels. As I previously decided to change the 18Lb cannon carrages, I have also now decide to use the Bloomfield pattern for the Barrels. Thanks to Allan for his timely intervention. Chris from Vanguard models has kindly supplied me with the 9ft (long) Bloomfield barrels ( 3d Printer  which I have heard have excellent detail) together with the brass fittings only, without the carrages for a very reasonable price. Once I have these and assemble one I will also be able to work out the correct height of the gunports so hopefully the gun barrels will end up centrally in the gunport. Lots to think about but no doubt I will het a few snags.

Edited May 1, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Sorry to keep returning to the position of the gun ports. After using the drawing as a template and cutting out the gun ports from the drawing. I found that apart from the forward 2 ports 1 & 2 the rest pretty much fits without altering the length of the upper bulwark/template and should be able to fit the ladders without having to cut the length of the upper bulwark. As regards the forward two bulkheads , If I move these a few mm forward I should be able to miss these but will be unable to fit ant gun tackle to these cannon. As these will be under the deck I am not sure this is necessary however I have glued extra pieceds of timber to the bulkhead upright supports so can cut these away at a later stage, so a bit of belt and braces approach.

       I have now received the Bloomfield Cannon barrels from Vandguard ship models and can see fom the position of the cannon on the deck I think i will need to raise the gunports slightly than on the drawing to ensure they are lieing centrally in the gun ports.

As far as I can see the position of the gun ports on the model can not be the same as the drawing on the AOTS Diana as this model is POB and not frame built. as is the AOTS Diana. I asked this question on this forum about chainplates lining up with gunports and I recieved a number of varied solutions. I also think the instructions is what confused me as both gunports being 30 mm Caldercraft instructions or 31.5 mm AOTS dimentions, both do not work out. However the Caldercraft above drawing which I pinned to the model does line up and the bulkheads miss all of the gunports except no 4 & 5 bulkheads and gunports 1 & 2. Thank you to Vane for pointing out that as this is a 3d ship and the drawing is 2 dimentional then infact these  gun ports would miss the .bulheads 4 & 5.  I therefore think that as the chainplates appear to miss the gunports as well as the bulkheads I think  following the Caldercraft drawing is the only satisfactorily solution I can come up with. Hope this makes sense. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[dunnock]

Dave, I went back and reminded myself what I had done. I also found the guns sat too high in the gun ports but I didn't have your foresight and had already drilled holes for each, which meant a bit of a filling job. The spacing was also a problem and my solution was similar to yours although I  spaced ports 7 & 8 further apart. I think the solution depends upon each individual's build. You have also checked the position of the shrouds which I failed to do properly and created a problem for myself when it cam to the quarterdeck guns. All in all, I think that you found the best solution for your Diana and it will look great

David

[DaveBaxt]

Thanks David for your kind words and I would not have managed it so far without the help of others who have gone before me as your good self, so appreciate your input a lot. I can see why you have left a bigger gap between gunports 7 & 8 as I have thought about the space required for the ladders and fenders but I hopefully should be OK with 38mm as is the drawing any further and then i think there are issues down the line with forward gunports or chain plates. You have just reminded me as regards the quarterdeck chainplates and shrouds but I am certain I have alreasdy done this but will double check anyway. Haha.

 

Preperation for first layer of planking.

        I temporarily pinned the upper false beck to the upper bulhead supports and to my surprise there was a 3 to 5 mm gap between the top of the inner hull planking and the false deck. 

III

I then checked the hieght of the false deck against the Caldercraft drawing and it is correct. I can,t understand why there is  gap as I brought the inner hull planking up to the top of the bulkhead uprights and then I realized this is only level with the bottom of the upper false deck supports doh!. After realizing this I decided to raise the inner hull wall to reach the upper surface of the brackets, It was necessary to fit seperate pieces between the bulkhead uprights so now the inner hull planking reaches 5mm higher at the mid section where the upper deck is open. I will need to think of some way of supporting the mid section of the upper false deck. I see by the drawing that there is supposed to be 5 x 5mm  plywood athwartship beams which I am not sure whether using plywood in this area is a good idea as they will be seen. These are not attached to the bulkhead uprights so might have to sort something out to support the deck in this area. I will need to give this some more thought.

                I also need to fit some supports to the quarter area as at the moment when I come to start the 1st layer of hull planking the planks will be just hanging in the air  in this area.

       It was also necessary to trim the outer edge of the false deck flush with the bulkheads and some more final fairing of the bulkheads will be required before starting the first layer of planking.

Edited May 5, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Gun Ports 

        Before I go any further I have been giving these some thought and to what is the best approach. I am in two minds to cut the gun ports to the inner hull wall using a template which would help to follow the deck line. I came across this thread as to the shape of the gunports and found it very helpful especially for the two forward gun ports at the curvature of the hull and the rise of the deck

I think as this is an 18th century English ship the C is probably the correct shape where the top and bottom follow the deck and the sides are 90 deg to the waterline

              I can see from a good few questions on this forum there are many different methods of cutting the gun ports and as yet I have not decided on my approach . Cutting the gun ports after the outer hull wall has be laid, seems to be the most common. However there is also the option of cutting the inner hull wall first then fitting the gun port frame before laying the outer hull ( first planking) next. I am unsure which is the best approach. I do however like the idea of using a template but this could be incorrect too.? Any advice is always welcome. best regards dave

Edited May 6, 2023 by DaveBaxt