USF Confederacy in 3D | Blender

[mtaylor]

4 hours ago, Martes said:

The sculpture colouring is very good-looking, but I rather doubt it's realism. All the carvings were, obviously, made of wood, and usually would be painted either white (as the most accessible and cheap paint) or, if the captain had means to do so, gilded. At least in Britain this was done out of captain's pocket, not the Admiralty, and I think in the early US there would also be some budgeting problems to produce and provide the ship with very special paint intended only for part of the decorations.

They also used yellow ocre many times to simulate gilding.  All depends on the English Captain's ego and budget. Possibly the same for the US captains as money was tight for the first frigates.

[3DShipWright]

26 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

They also used yellow ocre many times to simulate gilding.  All depends on the English Captain's ego and budget. Possibly the same for the US captains as money was tight for the first frigates.

Good to know Mark, thanks! I was also wondering about use of paint to simulate bronze patina? A notable example of this would be the HMS Surprise (HMS Rose)... The figurehead here is really what I'm shooting for, and there's a scene in Master and Commander where the crew is patching it up... in that scene, the underlying substance is clearly wood, so I'm wondering how they achieve the metallic look, complete with oxidation streaks... I would be curious to know your thoughts?

 

Thanks!

 

[mtaylor]

You raise a good point.  How the heck would they repair bronze/brass plating on a sculpture?  I have no idea myself.  

[Martes]

I am not sure those sculptures ever had plating that could be replaced, but there are probably ways to grind a metal or glass (see below) into the paint to achieve similar effect. Most of the paints were made of mix of metallic or mineral powders, after all, and many were poisonous as hell. It's all question of a budget.

Nate, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's expensive, but if they did invest into decorations, than, actually, why not. But to provide copper plating for sculptures and save on coppering the ship's bottom is a new low.

 

Also, note that the current Rose/Surprise figurehead is not very historical and most of the existing evidence points that figureheads in late 18th century were either whitewashed (to resemble marble/ivory) or painted in live colours.

 

It is possible, however, that greenish mould could produce similar effect on fading and salt-covered white paint.

 

Geoff Hunt mentions in the book on the Surprise:

 

 

And concerning paints in general:

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Martes

[3DShipWright]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:58 AM, Martes said:

Geoff Hunt mentions in the book on the Surprise:

 

 

Interesting... I'm curious, when Hunt writes "... (nothing)" does he mean he had no information to give Weir, or that there was no figurehead on the original HMS Surprise (HMS ROSE)? It could be interpreted either way.  Aside - I'm going to stop referencing HMS Rose, and assume its well established that anytime we reference the Surprise, we mean the Canadian reconstruction of Rose, purchased by WB and renamed Surprise for the film.

[3DShipWright]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:58 AM, Martes said:

Nate, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's expensive, but if they did invest into decorations, than, actually, why not. But to provide copper plating for sculptures and save on coppering the ship's bottom is a new low.

 

Haha yeah, no worries... And to clarify something I said earlier, I'm currently using two textures: a bronze patina and a copper patina. Yes, I highl doubt that they were using pure bronze sculptures (not just cost, but also weight would become an issue). Now what we call bronze is an alloy, which I'm sure you know . The two most common alloys of the time were bronze and steel (original steel, not modern HCS). Steel has under-pinnings of iron; bronze has a copper foundation. That said, bronze is usually mixed with zinc, lead, or tin, all of which were beyond abundant in the Appalachians. And, as you alluded to earlier, a by product of this naturally occurring metallurgy is arsenic - highly toxic indeed!

 

Anyway, while all that science/history is really cool - the actual modelling decisions I need to make are:

• Can I justify the pale green/ turquoise look of the sculptures? 
• Can I justify the patinaed look on the sculptures?
• If not, what are my options? (remember this was an American ship, built at a time when we were definitely trying to distance ourselves from our English cousins...)

 

Interested to know your thoughts. Thx as always,

-Nate

[Martes]

 

 

5 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

I'm curious, when Hunt writes "... (nothing)" does he mean he had no information to give Weir, or that there was no figurehead on the original HMS Surprise (HMS ROSE)? It could be interpreted either way.

As I understand it, Hunt meant he did not have any specific information about the figurehead apart from the original plans.

The original figurehead of the Surprise/Unite was, by the way, a decorated shield covered by Phrygian cap, not a human figure, and it is unknown if the figurehead was ever replaced in British service.

 

Your very basic option is white, as most sculptures were made to imitate marble, and this is relatively in line with architectural style of American country mansions. It is possible to use gold/yellow paint for small details, but generally, most of depictions of American ships show white where the British or the French put gold.

 

Most, but not all, and the second option is yellow/gold:

 

 

The third option is painting them live colors, imitating skin and clothing. It is also not unknown of, at least a model of New Orleans (the lake battleship) features the stern decorated in precisely that style.

 

And for one of the big frigates (either Constitution or the President) as well:

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Martes

[3DShipWright]

Masting the Confederacy

Hey everyone, I’m happy to be back and I’m now working on the masts for Confederacy. I’ve a lot to talk about and solicit feedback on here, so I think it cleanest if I break this post into two parts:

·       The first part will cover methodology and some underlying decisions I’m making regarding this pivotal part of the build.

·       The second part will be a detail comparison between the two ships I’ve done and I hope to showcase the improvements I’m making over my 3D Brig Rose, since Rose also used masts taken directly from AOS Pandora (read on for clarification).

 

 

Part 1: Methodology

 

After extensive research and deliberation, I believe I’ve come up with a good pipeline that will yield realistic results on modelling Confederacy’s masting, yards, and later its rigging. My chosen approach will involve deliberately redoing some things later (a benefit of 3D builds), so in order to not confuse anyone reading this, please allow me to establish a few thoughts and assumptions upfront:

1.       AVAILABILITY OF DOCUMENTS: Little (if any) documentation exists on confederacy's masting and rigging. (If you do have or know of any relevant masting plans, I’d be greatly obliged for links/access to them)

 

2.       SCOPE: It is a given that many dependencies exist between the overall setup of the masts, yards, and rigging, but to draw a line in the sand here, let me say upfront that I am only concerned with masting at this point.

 

3.       SOURCE MAT. AND RATIONAL: I want to develop each component from sources that are as complete and comprehensive as possible. Thus, I’ve chosen the AOS Pandora. While I’d arguably be better served were I to begin with plans from more size-comparable frigate, such as the AOS Essex or even online documentation from the Constitution, the precise dimensions of each component has proven very difficult to find. For example:

a.       Given diameters from step to the partners, then each subsequent qtr. segment diameter.

b.       Details down to 1/16 of an inch for the tressel trees, cross trees, chocks, hounds, bibs, bolsters… you get the idea 😊

c.       The positioning between components, like where the foot/heeling from the topmast segments hang in relation to the tressel trees and caps of the main segments.

 

4.       SOURCE MAT. AND RATIONAL (continued): The AOS pandora does a great job of everything listed in point #3 above. By comparison, the AOS Essex merely provides the maximum diameter and overall length of each segment in a data table in the beginning of the book, then only a scale drawing - with no dimensions - later on in the actual masts and spars section.

 

5.       ADAPTATION: Having said that, do plan on adapting Pandora’s masts and spars to Confederacy in the following ways:

a.       ORIGIN AND RAKE: The origin of the steps and approximate rake of the masts is depicted on Confederacy’s framing and deck plans. To make some of the math easier I’m rounding to the nearest ¼ of a degree.

b.       PROPORTIONAL SCALING: The factor that most contributes to ‘realism’ is the overall proportions. Thus, if I can later establish any actual dimensions of Confederacy’s masts/spars, I should be able to extrapolate precise dimensions based on the proportions given to me by Pandora’s documentation… within reason, of course. (I won’t be making Confederacy’s masts 100 ft taller than Pandora’s just because it is 33% longer ship, lol)

c.       HARDWARE ADAPTATION: Finally, I will add, subtract, or swap out various hardware based upon belaying points and other differences in rigging configurations. Examples include: # of hoops and wooldings based upon total extrapolated length, angle (spread) of the bibs after the platform is tilted forward to compensate for the true rake of each mast, # number of thimbles to support the correct number of bowline blocks require for the adjusted sail sizing. Would a turn of the century ship still have used crows’ feet? Would the adjusted platform size require an extended mast cap and an additional support column… again, you get the idea.

 

Smooth sailing,

-Nate

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[malachy]

Great stuff! Thought about getting back to modelling ships/Blender for a while now after a two year hiatus, this thread gave me the missing motivation. Absolutely gorgeous model, mr shipwright

[3DShipWright]

Quick overview shot of current progress in the build.

 

 

[3DShipWright]

8 hours ago, malachy said:

Great stuff! Thought about getting back to modelling ships/Blender for a while now after a two year hiatus, this thread gave me the missing motivation. Absolutely gorgeous model, mr shipwright

Thanks  And YES!!! Please do get back into it - I was recently looking back at some of your work circa 2013 and gotta say your work (texturing in particular) was well ahead of its time. I'd love to see what you could do with a modern version of blender at your disposal. If interested, I'm also going to be looking for fellow Blender artists to collaborate with in about 6 months to a year from now; perhaps do an epic naval battle scene with several of our ships all together!

 

-Nate

[3DShipWright]

Hi everyone,

 

So after a bit of a hiatus, I'm returning to Confederacy. The Masts, bowspirt, and gaffs are coming along slowly. All the port lids/hatches are in-place (save their rigging. Much of the work at this point has been focused on clean up and redoing key elements that were only 'placeholders'.

 

I'm about a year away from completion of the ship itself, but I'm setting up basic environment components in the scene now. Here's a teaser image:

Edited October 27, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[Martes]

A stunning beauty!

[3DShipWright]

A few updates:

 

1. Stern Gallery ornamentation updated, added a bit of color, though I tried to use it sparingly to keep an overall 'classic' feel.

 

2. ship's wheel nearly complete, have to adjust a few angles and heights when I properly place it.

 

3. Bolsters added / transition of white to black paint corrected (on cutwater) / headrails in the process of being remodeled / beakneck-headrail barracade placed (netting will come later

 

4. Beakneck Grates started (missing the seats of ease and the angle braces at the tip)

 

5. Quaterdeck waterways done / Belfry in the process of being redone

 

6. Midship companionways completed / temporary stove added (Cannons also temporary)

 

7. Dovetail and horseshoe plates added / Driver boom and gaff imported from Rose (will require adjustments

 

To be continued - smooth sailing t' ye lads (and lasses).

-Nate

Edited November 16, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[3DShipWright]

Now that's a bit more like it! 

 

- New Cannons (no rigging yet) - full transparency, they are not mine, got them from polyhaven.com (no affiliation). The model is not perfect: the carriage tapers the wrong way, the front and back wheels are the same size, and the barrel is oversized so it looks like a 32pdr gun is sitting atop a 6pdr - 9pdr frame. Still, the texturing is so good I'm going to use them anyway and correct what I can.

- Jeer bits added on the forecastle

- Belfry completed

- Pins added to rails and jeer bits

 

 

 

I still have some work to do on the quarterdecks, but the next images I share should be more or less the finals, without rigging that is, and barring any mistakes. For anyone who may be interested, my upcoming workflows are:

 

- Place the iron deck rings that support the cannon rigging

- Cut sheaves into the foremast jeer bits, the forecastle barricade and the breastrail barricade

- Add the mizzen jeer bits, pin rail, and pins

- Create the drainage holes on the quarterdeck planking for the pipe scuppers (which will come later)

- Finalize the grating on the aft quarter deck (i.e. taper and bevel the footing)

- Model the stand upon which the helm rests, including the crossbeams with sheaves for the rigging that connects the drum to the gooseneck pulleys.

- Add addl planking inboard of the quarter piece beneath the taff rail. (I believe this part was also double planked, but I don't know for sure)

- Place rigging cleats where appropriate.

 

Best,

-Nate

Edited November 19, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[3DShipWright]

Another quick shot of Confederacy. I'm definitely liking the colder mood / lighting - what do you guys think?

 

[Martes]

The hatches should be (somewhat) curved upwards and edges chamfered a little:

 

And I am very puzzled about those wells around the masts. They kind of shouldn't be there.

 

[3DShipWright]

Hi @Martes,

 

Both the masts and the grating are correct.

 

1. with regards to the grating - not all ships had rounded grates. This is especially true of American frigates, as I can't find one ship built in this period that did have rounded grates. I did chamfer the edges in a bit; like i said in my last post, I'm not quite done yet

 

 

2. With regards to the openings around the masts, these too are accurate. The standing rigging that belays to the eyebolts at the base of the masts are on the gundeck on Confederacy and others, not the quarterdeck. See image below, and please note: I haven't even started on the gundeck yet, I'm working top-to-bottom going through the quaterdeck, gundeck, berthing, orlop, and finally, the hold.

 

Best,

-Nate

[3DShipWright]

The image compression on this site is killing me, lol. Here's a down-scaled version of a couple pics that should be less blurry:

 

[Martes]

4 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

The standing rigging that belays to the eyebolts at the base of the masts are on the gundeck on Confederacy and others, not the quarterdeck.

Went to check the plan, and yes, you're right, they are there.

 

Those crazy colonial shipbuilders!

[3DShipWright]

On 11/23/2023 at 10:36 AM, Martes said:

 

Those crazy colonial shipbuilders!

Haha, well said sir! I 100% agree. Thus far I've really enjoyed working on Confederacy; overall, she's a very pretty ship... but I've said it before and I'll say it again - some of her design choices were quite unique, others were questionable from a practicality standpoint, and a few were flat-out strange.

[Martes]

I can suppose that many differences (the flat gratings?) are a trace of mercantile shipbuilding and handling practices.

 

There was an interesting quote in a book about HMS Resolute, that one local newspaper wrote that when the ship was brought into American harbour it was percieved with much interest, because everything was not like in the States.

[3DShipWright]

@Martes - So seeing all your in-game captures makes me really impatient for the day I can do battle scenes or renders with multiple ships. There's a whole lot of performance optimization that needs to be done before I can realize that dream, but here's what my PC hardware will currently allow me to get away with (I had to strip out the rigging on Rose, but I hope to be able to add it back in soon).

 

[Martes]

3 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

There's a whole lot of performance optimization that needs to be done before I can realize that dream

There is this advantage in low-detail models and especially rigs.

 

But something went wrong with the attachment. I see it in the gallery on the main page, and the correct link to image is this:

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Martes

[3DShipWright]

So apparently, I'm the guy who models each individual clove hitch on the ratlines... because, you know, the project wasn't tedious enough already.  

 

[3DShipWright]

A few, seemingly random updates, but here we go:

 

1. Working on the partitions on the gun deck. I have all but the doors modelled, I'm now working on the faux gilding (yellow paint), at which point I'll do the great cabin (gunna be a lot of work)

 

2. An exploded view of the keel, which now has the vertical scarfs modelled, including the coak and table joints. I've also added the trennels on the outsides, but I'll still need to do the staples that connect the keel to the false keel.

 

[3DShipWright]

I'd also like to correct the framing at the stern. I've deliberately held off on the wing transom until I fix the highlighted portion, but I'm at a loss on what the missing piece looks like... If anyone can help, I'd be greatly obliged. Thx!

 

[Martes]

2 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

what the missing piece looks like...

Exactly like it's neighbour to the right.

 

You missed the diagonal estain - if I remember the name correctly - under it though. The transom pieces do not go into the vertical pair, but rather connected to it and supported by vertical frames from below (at least in French contemporary methods, without cant frames aft). Otherwise it is even more complicated

Edited December 30, 2023 by Martes

[Lieste]

Rigged for navigation, the partitions are all appropriate, but on clearing for action most if not all were struck down, along with removable furniture.

[Martes]

3 hours ago, Martes said:

Otherwise it is even more complicated

 

Note, thought, that the Constitution does have cant framing both fore and aft, as we discussed earlier.

So if you employed cant frames forward on the Confederacy, you possibly should consider doing the same on the aft end...

 

 

And how dense her framing is.