Strake Widths

[bwross11]

Greetings all,

Have a general question.  I'm currently sloooowly working my way through the NRG half-hull planking learning project.  I have reread Toni's explanations about strake plank widths and lengths for the 18th century a few dozen times and it got me to wondering.  Is there some rule of thumb as to the widths of the planks used?  Based on century, type of ship, shipyard tradition?  I have read through a slew of beautiful build threads and I can't imagine they are all built with the exact same size planks.

 

So, inquiring minds want to know,

 

Bruce

[druxey]

Lots of factors can weigh in. The size of ship, the radius of hull curves transversally, the timber available at the time and place.... and on it goes.

[allanyed]

Druxey's post is spot on.   There are a few planking expansion drawings of later 18th century ships such as Sphinx 1775 and Squirrel 1785 that show every plank inboard and outboard.  Sphinx plan is below but it does not necessarily apply to other size ships or different eras.  There are also contemporary cross section drawings that show the breadth of planking at midships for various size ships and eras.  The cross sections do not account for the broadening of the planking aft or the narrowing moving forward.

Allan

Edited May 10, 2023 by allanyed

[bwross11]

Thanks guys,

So, what I'm hearing is that there is a lot of historical leeway regarding the size of strakes.  Pretty much, do what you want if it looks good; that'll work.

 

thanks

Bruce

[allanyed]

24 minutes ago, bwross11 said:

Pretty much, do what you want if it looks good; that'll work.

 Do you have a nationality, era, rate or any other specifics for a ship in which you are interested? There are contemporary scantlings, contracts,  models and plans from which you can get actual data if you can be more specific about what ship(s) you are considering.

Allan

Edited May 10, 2023 by allanyed

[bwross11]

Hi Allan,

No, not really at this time.  Right now I'm just trying to learn how to do a descent looking planking job.  In my eyes I pretty well managed to bugger up a AL Swift. 

 

I've seen a slew of beautiful ship models here and at a variety of museums and it got me to wondering.  I thinking about what I'd like to try next, or once I get the hang of the planking and one thought lead to another.

 

thanks
Bruce

[allanyed]

Maybe look at the scratch build logs for some ideas.   The techniques used in scratch builds are sometimes applicable to kit builds.  

Allan

[wefalck]

In the later 19th century, navies and commercial surveying boards (say the Germanic Lloyd) established rules and recommendations for minimum(!) plank/strake widths and lengths for certain areas of the hulls. The underlying reason was that sufficiently large trees became scarce and, therefore, expensive. Builders and owners understandably tried to cut costs, but this was at the expense of strength. Also narrower planks means more seams to be caulked and, hence, higher risk of leakage. 

[bwross11]

Thanks for the input to the question wefalck.  Having seen some of the old tall ships I'll bet they chopped down entire forests for some of them.  Probably right now I need to focus on learning how to plank before I start thinking about the next big adventure.

 

Bruce

[allanyed]

20 hours ago, bwross11 said:

Having seen some of the old tall ships I'll bet they chopped down entire forests for some of them

Hi Bruce

I did a few minutes of research and found that there are a number of recommendations for 100 to 400 oak trees per acre.  Typical largest rate ships required upwards of 2000 trees.  So from 5 to 20 acres for the largest ships would be needed, not much of a forest.   😀

Allan

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Bruce

I did a few minutes of research and found that there are a number of recommendations for 100 to 400 oak trees per acre.  Typical largest rate ships required upwards of 2000 trees.  So from 5 to 20 acres for the largest ships would be needed, not much of a forest.   😀

Allan

The history of Admiralty's consumption of white oak is a fascinating subject, particularly as it influenced Britain's attitudes towards its American colonies and the way that influenced our own U.S. history.

 

As for how many acres of forest were consumed to ensure that "Britannia ruled the waives," the devil is in the details. Even in a virgin forest during the age of wooden ships, I doubt they'd find more than a half dozen mature oaks of sufficient quality for shipbuilding on the average acre of virgin oak forest. They required the largest lumber that could be milled from prime clear timber free of defects.  "Wild" white oak is notoriously variable in those respects. The number of oak trees per acre varies depending upon the species of oak and the growing conditions. To that has to be added the factor of accessibility. They could only harvest trees that they could fell. drag out of the forest and transport to the shipyards and they didn't have the  logging technology we have today to accomplish that. 

 

Some internet sites do indeed recommend planting between 100 and 400 trees per acre for plantation-grown white oak, but this number presumes that the initial planting will be thinned, either by modern forestry practices or natural attrition, over the 100 to 400 years before harvest of mature timber. Other sites say an acre of land will support far fewer white oak trees per acre and recommend planting "between 10 and 20 white oak trees per acre. https://mast-producing-trees.org/how-many-oak-trees-per-acre-should-you-plant/  "... it takes at least 80 years for a white oak to begin reaching a harvestable point. “That doesn’t mean it has hit its value point yet,” he adds. These trees can live up to 400 years, and many of the white oaks being harvested today are 150 to 200 years old." https://www.forestfoundation.org/why-we-do-it/family-forest-blog/managing-white-oaks-during-the-bourbon-boom/

 

As the linked articles above discuss, forest managers have become concerned about the sustainability of quality white oak due to the increased consumption of oak barrels by the wine and whiskey industries. Living where I do in the Northern California "Wine Country," where wine is aged in white oak barrels and there is a large ancillary cooperage industry, I see a lot of white oak barrels. White oak wine barrels impart a flavor to the wine they contain, but after a few uses become "flavor neutral," all the flavor having been leached out of the oak. Whiskey barrels, on the other hand, are charred on the inside and only used once. After that, the barrels are useless for those purposes and are cut in half and recycled as planter boxes, ground up in the chipper for barbeque smoker flavoring, or sometimes repurposed into trinkets for the local tourist trade. Any way you look at it, I think this seems a wasteful way to consume prime lumber that would last centuries if put to a more noble use. (Although the wine and whiskey connoisseurs see it differently, I'm sure, I've always been more interested in the proof than the flavor! )                                               

 

I'd say the the old Admiralty loggers would be lucky to find more than five harvestable white oaks from an acre of virgin forest back in the days of wooden ships and iron men. The problem wasn't that the demands of the Admiralty exceeded the number of acres of oak trees they had, but rather that they exceeded the number of harvestable oak trees suitable for shipbuilding they had. After they had cut all the 200+ year old quality white oaks they could get to, the oak forests remained, but the size and quality of oaks didn't, and wouldn't, until what was left had another 200+ years to mature. In the days of old, the harvesting pressures were obviously greatest in the closest proximity of human habitation and industry, but a fair amount of the forest remained and, until logging technology overwhelmed the resource, it maintained some degree of sustainability. Ultimately, however, man's ability to harvest the timber faster than it could grow began to negatively impact the forest itself, but "running out of timber" is a relative term meaning "running out of timber of sufficient quality,' not necessarily "running out of trees entirely." (Although, "clear cutting" to produce agricultural land did, and still does, destroy large swaths of forest as well.)

 

So, harvesting the 2,000 trees to build a ship of the line didn't take "much of a forest," but just the best shipbuilding trees in a whole lot of forest. It didn't take long for the unavailability of prime white oak to affect the shipbuilding practices of the time. Timbers had to be assembled of increasingly smaller pieces as the "big stuff" was consumed. It should be noted that the oak and pitch pine forests of America's East Coast and the fir forests of British Columbia were invaluable war material resources for the Admiralty at a time when England and the rest of Europe had consumed all their own resources of ship building oak, "Oregon pine" spars and deck planking, and pine tar. England's opposition to American independence was more about retaining timber resources than collecting a tax on tea.

 

So how many acres of oak did it take to find enough timber to get out a ship of the line? The answer is "It depended." However, what we do know is that the U.S. Navy maintains a pristine 50,000 acre natural forest of white oak trees solely for the purpose of repairing U.S.S. Constitution! "The ship completed a two year drydocking and restoration program in 2017. During the restoration 35 trees from the grove were selected to be harvested to replace rotting hull planks."  https://www.oldsaltblog.com/2020/11/constitution-grove-the-navys-white-oak-forest-on-a-high-tech-base/  That should provide some idea of how many acres it took to produce enough white oak to build an entire ship like her.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[allanyed]

8 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

The answer is "It depended." However, what we do know is that the U.S. Navy maintains a pristine 50,000 acre natural forest of white oak trees solely for the purpose of repairing U.S.S. Constitution! "

I did not know this and as the government is known for always being efficient, they must have done lengthy studies with shipwrights and forest services and calculated 50,000 acres is what was needed. to maintain one ship that mostly sits in port.   If the government says 50,000  acres is needed  it must be true correct.  Now if we dig a little more, and maybe this has changed in the past few years, but the Navy maintains (pays for) the forest but it is privately owned by Brett Franklln of TriState Lumber LLC.   I wonder how much he is paid for allowing use of 50,000 acres when maybe far less is actually needed.  Sorry for being skeptical, but ...........   

 

Allan

[Bob Cleek]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Now if we dig a little more, and maybe this has changed in the past few years, but the Navy maintains (pays for) the forest but it is privately owned by Brett Franklin of TriState Lumber LLC.   I wonder how much he is paid for allowing use of 50,000 acres when maybe far less is actually needed.  Sorry for being skeptical, but ........... 

 

Not to worry. There doesn't appear to be any skullduggery afoot. In fact, the 53,000 acre oak forest (to be exact) is located entirely on the reservation of Naval Support Activity Crane, which is about 110 square miles in size, the third largest naval base in the world and entirely under the ownership, management, and control of the U.S. Navy which acquired the land and built the base in 1941. There's no indication that the Navy decided it needed 53,000 acres to keep one ship in repair. Rather, when they realized they were having a hard time sourcing White Oak and realized they already had a whole forest of it at NSA Crane, they decided to establish the entire forest as a naval tree farm reservation, harvesting from it on an as-needed basis.

 

See: The "Wooden Walls" of USS Constitution - USS Constitution Museum:

 

"At Naval Support Activity Crane, near Bloomington, Indiana, the U.S. Navy maintains "Constitution Grove," where a forest of white oaks are grown for the sole purpose of restoring and refitting the USS Constitution, the oldest commissioned vessel still sailing (the UK's HMS Victory is older than the Constitution, but remains in drydock).

NSA Crane is the third largest naval base in the world, and Constitution Grove is not only protected for the white oak trees, but also the biological diversity an oak forest provides, including the wildlife that live there. Three Navy civilian foresters help maintain the wood and ensure that no tree removed from the ecosystem will have an adverse effect on the grove's biodiversity."

 

See also:  Why the US Navy Manages Its Own Private Forest | Military.com

 

From what I have read, Brett Franklin is the owner of Tri-State Lumber, LLC, a logging company that won the most recent bid for the Navy contract to harvest the Navy's white oak for the Constitution's repairs. Neither Franklin nor Tri-State Lumber, LLC, own the Navy's White Oak Reservation.

 

See: Ironsides of Indiana Oak - Indiana Connection:

 

Fortuitously for the venerable vessel, the Navy has in its back pocket 53,000 acres of prime forestland growing all the white oak timber the Constitution should ever need. That novel natural nursery is the Crane naval support center in the Hoosier hills and hollows of mostly northern Martin County.

 

“To be a part of something that was touched — literally — by those who founded the country is pretty cool,” said Trent Osmon, the forester at Crane who manages the white oak trees. “I feel great knowing we’ll be supporting something that’s so important to the Navy and, in a larger sense, the country.”

 

Situated midway between Indianapolis and Evansville, Naval Support Activity (NSA) Crane specializes in developing advanced electronic systems. But beyond the large Navy and civilian workforce employed at Crane, few Hoosiers are probably aware of the exclusive and proud role Indiana has played for the past quarter century in keeping Old Ironsides, designated “America’s Ship of State,” shipshape. “I have run into very few people outside of Crane who have any clue what Crane does for the ship,” Osmon noted. “Other than the folks directly in Boston, or perhaps their superiors, it is not widely known [even in the Navy].”

 

The timber for the restoration was harvested at Crane last February and March. Crane foresters oversaw the felling of 35 mature white oaks set aside for the historic ship. The trees, 110-120 years old and about 40 inches in diameter, were then moved to a covered storage area at Crane, fumigated and covered in plastic.

 

Tri-State Timber, LLC., based in Spencer, cut the trees for Crane. Brett Franklin, an owner of the family company, said knowing the job was for the Constitution made it a bid they wanted to win.“  We just thought it was a proud moment to be a part of history,” he said. “It’s patriotic; everybody wanted to get involved.”

 

When work begins on the ship, Tri-State will also begin hauling the logs as needed to Boston for the milling and shaping to replace deteriorated hull planking and supporting structures called “knees.”

 

Speaking of knees, the relatively recently established NSA Crane isn't the first or only U.S. Navy oak forest resource. Historically, one of the first things the fledgling United States Government did was to snap up all the Southern Live Oak it could for shipbuilding. In 1825, President John Quincy Adams created the Naval Live Oak Reservation program which acquired a virtual monopoly on all the Live Oak forests in the nation. The first such reservation was on Pensacola Bay. White Oak (Quercus Alba) has long straight trunks. Live Oak (quercus virginiana) grows outward with thick curved branches. White Oak was valued for planking, keels, and other straight beams. Live Oak was prized as the highest strength "compass timbers," meaning curved stock from which frames, futtocks, and knees are cut. Constitution's knees and frames are Live Oak, while her keel and planking are White Oak. When the Navy started building iron ships, they had little need for their Live Oak Reservations and in the early 1900's sold or repurposed them for other government use. The Deer Point Naval Live Oaks Reservation in Gulf Breeze, Florida, founded in 1828 as the nation's first naval tree farm, is now preserved as part of the Gulf Islands National Seashore in Florida and Mississippi. While no longer under the auspices of the Navy, the National Park Service provides Live Oak from the former Deer Point Naval Live Oaks Reservation and other NPS lands for the replacement of Live Oak parts on Constitution on an as-needed basis. 

 

See: Naval Live Oaks Reservation - Wikipedia and The Live Oak Tree: A Naval Icon - Gulf Islands National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service) (nps.gov)

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[bwross11]

Wow Bob!  Thanks for the insights, truly a fascinating read.  I was never aware of the vast history surrounding the growth and acquisition of wood!

 

Cheers,

Bruce