USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[CiscoH]

unrolling your paper template made it a lot clearer for me to understand.  not a smooth wraparound but a changing radius curve.  i begin to get why its so difficult

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 8/17/2024 at 6:26 PM, GGibson said:

Looks great, Peter!  If I am following your query correctly, will the window frames themselves be painted black?  So, you are referring to the "window glass" portion of the window construction?  I'd vote for white, then.  Good contrast, and with the clear film coverage you place on top of that, it will look nicest, IMO.

 

Awesome work, sir! Carry on! 👍

That's my working plan.  Thanks for casting your vote!  

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

18 hours ago, CiscoH said:

unrolling your paper template made it a lot clearer for me to understand.  not a smooth wraparound but a changing radius curve.  i begin to get why its so difficult

And the reason the laser cut window frames are virtually useless.  

 

Since I love difficult things (I am married after all), I can't wait for the next challenge!  

[Geoff Matson]

Great solution to your problem

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 8/19/2024 at 3:51 PM, Geoff Matson said:

Great solution to your problem

 

We'll see.  Here's the first window.  There is a piece of plexiglass behind the frame, and I'll probably paint the back side white.  

 

Also, frames will be trimmed flush with sills.

 

Time consuming work this..

 

Aug 22 update:  I'm just not happy with this.  My brain keeps nagging at me about creating a vacant space behind the windows, which my brain insists would look even better if it were somehow illuminated.  And Mustafa's point, in post 307 below, about keeping all the parts separate until painted (or stained) is a good one.  The pilasters are glued to the filler block and the window frame is glued to the glass, making finishing work a bit of an issue.  With the nice weather calling me outdoors, and family issues likewise intervening, I may ponder next steps a while longer.  (Procrastination IS my middle name. 😉)

 

Edited August 22 by Der Alte Rentner
added post post rumination.

[JSGerson]

Should look spectacular!

 

Jon

[mtbediz]

It looks perfect, Peter. If I were you, I would paint all the pieces before gluing them in place. It would be much easier. Because there are a lot of black and white pieces next to each other and it is very difficult to paint them without smearing the other.

 

Note: I assume you will paint the model

Edited August 21 by mtbediz

[Der Alte Rentner]

9 hours ago, mtbediz said:

It looks perfect, Peter. If I were you, I would paint all the pieces before gluing them in place. It would be much easier. Because there are a lot of black and white pieces next to each other and it is very difficult to paint them without smearing the other.

 

Note: I assume you will paint the model

My thoughts exactly, assuming I will indeed paint the model.  I'm still stalling on making that decision, but I'm weakening in my resolve to try for a more "natural" finish.   Thank you Mustafa.

[GGibson]

In preparation of someday soon beginning my Constitution build, I have begun saving/bookmarking/favoriting (whatever you call it) a whole bunch of Constitution build logs here on MSW and even some on another similar forum website.  I don't, though, recall any of those build logs having Constitutions with natural finishes.  They seem to all have been painted and coppered?  

 

Peter, do you know of some existing build logs here on MSW that have not been painted?  Would be interested in looking at them and comparing.

[Der Alte Rentner]

2 hours ago, GGibson said:

Peter, do you know of some existing build logs here on MSW that have not been painted?  Would be interested in looking at them and comparing.

At least one at MSW, but it's a Constructo kit built by HipExec. 

 

Jon, has shared photos of another model that he has in his collection of Constitution materials as well.  So, there are at least two.

I'm pretty sure that I stumbled upon a natural finish version of the Constellation, but am having a hard time finding the photos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the link to HipExec's entry for the photo above.

 

Edited August 21 by Der Alte Rentner
added link to HipExec's build log

[GGibson]

Thanks for the pictures and links, Peter.  I believe I had seen his build log previously, but did not bookmark it.  Thanks for the reminder.

 

And, in the FWIW category, I prefer the painted hull look... <shrug> 👍

[Der Alte Rentner]

One more picture gleaned via search of images at MSW site.

from dkettl, who posted this in 2013, but hasn't been back since 2015.  This is the Constellation, but it's another possibility.  Looks nice with the furled sails.  

[JSGerson]

I found one more: Mantua 1:98. The kit is designed as natural wood. If I were to build this kit as natural wood, I might substitute woods of different colors to mimic the blacks and whites portions of the real ship.

 

Jon

Edited August 22 by JSGerson

[Der Alte Rentner]

4 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I found one more: Mantua 1:98. The kit is designed as natural wood. If I were to build this kit as natural wood, I might substitute woods of different colors to mimic the blacks and whites portions of the real ship.

 

Jon

 

 

Jon, I went to the Mantua UK website and got a slightly higher resolution photo.  

 

 

To my taste, the copper plating detracts from the appearance. However, this color scheme seems doable with one or two stains, depending on how the spar deck planking looks with a clear finish.  

 

As usual, you deliver the goods.  

 

Thanks

Peter

Edited August 22 by Der Alte Rentner

[JSGerson]

Yours was the higher resolution, thanks.

 

My Rattlesnake was kit-bashed and made from natural woods following Mr. Hunt's practicum. Various woods were used for different "colors." (Black paint was used in lieu of Ebony wood (its sawdust is toxic)). To think I tried this on my first POB square rigged ship model is scary to me now, but I didn't know better then. I'm still happy how it turn out.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

On a completely different topic:

 

Jon and Geoff, a friend just offered me a partially completed hull of the Armed Virginia Sloop (your first build Geoff?). It includes the Bob Hunt practicum materials - printed along with digital (disks).

 

Sadly, the rest of the kit seems to have disappeared. However, my friend is continuing to go through his father in-law's stored items, and it may yet turn up.

 

The gentleman - a veteran of the Navy who was building this, passed away, and his son-in-law would like to find a good home for it. He saw my build log and asked if I was interested in taking the project over. As you both know, it will be years before I get around to doing that. Can either of you suggest how I might go about offering it, free of charge, to anyone at model ship world.com?

 

I do have a couple of photos of the state of the build.  See below. The first hull seems to be completely in, and the second is about 3/4 of the way done.  

 

Were I to take it over, I would attempt to scratch build the rest of it. With the experience I'll have under my belt then, I won't need to buy the kit. Plan B would be to buy the kit and save myself some of the busy work.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23 by Der Alte Rentner

[JSGerson]

Post your offer here on this website. It's where you can sell, buy, donate, and request all kinds of stuff. I found it by using the search feature on the home page with "for sale" in the search item.

 

Jon

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

1 minute ago, JSGerson said:

Post your offer here on this website. It's where you can sell, buy, donate, and request all kinds of stuff.

 

Jon

 

 

You see, you were the right person to ask, as usual - you are the man!

 

Thanks.

[mtbediz]

We haven't heard from you for a long time, Peter. Are you fine?

Edited October 4 by mtbediz

[Geoff Matson]

I would be more inclined to have a fresh new kit. That way I can make my own mistakes. Bob's cd's made a great introduction to building the kit. I learned a lot that made future model building easier. There is always a lot of discussion between kit and scratch building. However, most of us try to improve on the kit and end up making changes that introduce us to scratch building. I would recommend you buy the new kit and invest in the cost of the course. 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Thank you Geoff. Among the many things I've been contemplating during my hiatus from the shipyard, taking over this project was at the bottom of the list. I haven't talked to my friend in a while, but I may yet acquire what he has, if for no other reason than to have a copy of the practicum. But I doubt I'm going to do anything with it.

[Der Alte Rentner]

As the summer draws to a close, I am slowly returning to the shipyard. I've achieved virtually nothing in the last couple of months apart from taking these two photographs.

 

I'm still suffering from analysis paralysis regarding the matter of paint versus no paint. But in a couple of small experiments around staining the gallery components, I'm not entirely satisfied with the results.

 

Furthermore I'm still struggling with the gallery windows. As mentioned in a post to Mustafa, I'm on my fourth iteration on the starboard side alone. Having seen a technique he employed to fabricate a commode for his Constitution, I might try that myself to see if I can construct complete window frames. If I succeed in that endeavor, I can hollow out the area behind and achieve a more traditional result.

 

 

 

This is where I'm at today. I'm just not happy with the windows. 

 

[JSGerson]

I never was satisfied with my results after a least 4 attempts too. The result you posted looks great except (and I'm being very picky and wished mine looked as good). your lower panes are larger than the two rows of panes above. They should all be of the same spacing. You got the window frame itself right, something I failed to do.

 

In your post to Mustafa, you mentioned that the glue clouded up the plexiglass. You might try canopy glue, the stuff used to create pseudo glass in small openings. I used mica for my glass. It is strong, clear, and can be made very thin by removing layers by splitting it, is flexible when it that thin, and you can cut it with a scissors.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 10/4/2024 at 12:13 AM, mtbediz said:

We haven't heard from you for a long time, Peter. Are you fine?

 

Thanks for asking.  Yes, I'm fine - except for the analysis paralysis and head scratching related to those darned gallery windows.  (It doesn't help that Jon pointed out that my windows are not all the same dimensions.)  

 

Last summer I spent a log of time in the shipyard, but this year, the weather and a summer full of social commitments have kept me otherwise occupied.  I was reminded today that my son is coming home from college for 10 days and that my daughter will be visiting from Minnesota at the same time.  So, I'll be sidelined a little longer.   

 

I see you're back from your summer vacation.  Welcome back and kudos on your extraordinary build.  

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 10/8/2024 at 12:40 PM, JSGerson said:

The result you posted looks great except..

For me, this has been the single most difficult part of the build to date.  I did experiment with the Proxxon mill, but am struggling with that as well.  While, as Mustafa pointed out, I've been absent from the site for a while, I've been working the problem NON-STOP in my mind.  Among other options, I've even considered trying a laser cutter or 3D printer to make the window frames.  

 

If I eventually tire of the effort, I may take a much simpler, less elegant, approach - maybe just paint lines on (or affix stickers to) the glass to fake the rails and styles of the frames.  That's what HipExec's Constitution kit provided.

 

As my extended summer draws to a close in the coming days, I'll return to the shipyard and get after it..

 

 

[Geoff Matson]

Don't let it get to you. You are doing fine. NO LESS ELEGANT APPROACH. You owe it to the rest of model to make the windows just like you did the whole model so far. You may have noticed I have not made much progress lately. Just like you and your windows I'm hug up on the rigging part. I too get mind cramps trying to figure out how to do things. I think I have my problem solved and hope get back to the rigging. Look at other builds and you will figure it out. 

[JSGerson]

Quote

(It doesn't help that Jon pointed out that my windows are not all the same dimensions.)

I did not mean to put a cramp in your in your quarter gallery efforts. I just accepted what I did on my model as the best I could do at the time. Your quarter galleries are better than most that I have seen.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 10/10/2024 at 7:48 AM, Geoff Matson said:

NO LESS ELEGANT APPROACH. You owe it to the rest of model to make the windows just like you did the whole model so far.

Sigh,  to that end I just purchased the styrene and solvent that Bob Hunt used.  If I can make the windows as well as he did (a belated kudos to Bob on that score!) I may revisit the entire process.  The Proxxon experiment was a fail..  

 

I did stain the components of the galley to get a sense of how the rest of Connie would look.  No pictures today.  When I finish trying the windows ala B.H., I'll post both again.  My daughter just arrived and my son will be here later today, so family trumps the shipyard.  See you soon.

 

 

[Geoff Matson]

I built my windows following Hunt. It is not that hard. I made the frames and checked the fit and then glued in the window dividers. I also used the styrene for the bow parts. I gave them a coat of flat white paint and then when ready I installed them. It made painting them white very easy and no masking or taping. When I painted the hull I painted the white first, when dry I taped it and then painted the black. I know it looks overwhelming, but once you get stated it will go quickly. Just go slow and easy. 

[JSGerson]

FYI - Because white styrene has a tendency to yellow over time, painting it, is a must.

 

Jon