USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[mtbediz]

14 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

I'll decide after I see just how snugly the strops hold the deadeyes.  I think it might be beneficial to be able to rotate the deadeyes a bit when it comes time to actually do the rigging.  I'll experiment with my hook idea the next time I'm in the shipyard.  Weather is too perfect this time of year to spend much prime daylight time indoors. 

Yes, if the strops are strong enough, there's no need to glue them. You just have to try them and see.

[Der Alte Rentner]

It's amazing how clearly the mind works when you're out in nature..  While riding my bicycle and turning the problem of deadeye/chain plate marriage over in my head, I realize that a drawback to my plan above is that the hole I want to pass the hook at the bottom end of the deadeye through - is at the wrong end of the chain plate.  Since the lengths of the chain plates will vary across the span of the channels, the predrilled hole will need to be at the bottom and a U shaped hook bent at the top where it mates with the deadeye strop.  If I want to use the kit provided chain plates, I'll have to change my approach. 

 

XKen didn't explain how, or even IF, he attached the deadeyes to the chain plate, so I had to look elsewhere for ideas.  Mustafa's approach certainly looks great and will make adjusting the length of the chain plates easy.  KMart and Tom (used to sail) used a different technique, which may (or may not?) be easier to do.  I'll have to do some experimentation to see which works best for me.  

 

For what it's worth, the closeups provided by Jon suggest that I should double wrap a smaller diameter wire around the deadeye instead of using a single thick rod as all three of the above have done.  How to do that and fashion an integrated pin at the bottom of the strop?  Back to the bicycle!   

[JSGerson]

Quote

XKen didn't explain how, or even IF, he attached the deadeyes to the chain plate,

From what I surmised from the images Ken provided, he did not attached the deadeyes to the chain plates. He twisted the wires stropping the deadeyes creating a tail which was then inserted into the channel. The chain plates were laid on top of the tails and extended to the hull. The "joint" was eventually covered over by the channel cap hiding the false connection. A little bit of modeler's sleight of hand.

[Der Alte Rentner]

4 hours ago, JSGerson said:

A little bit of modeler's sleight of hand.

Exactly. And because I didn't see anything actually connecting the deadeye to the chain plate, I became oncerned that, if I'm tugging on the deadeye during rigging, that it might come undone.

 

So, I've been experimenting with methods of stropping the deadeye with brass wire, and ending up with a loop for the chainplate to pass through later.  I won't show you the failed or less than desirable results, but I think I'm on to something:

 

The diameter of the brass rod clamped between the vices is .8 mm.  The diameter of the wire that I'm wrapping around the rod is .44 mm.

 

I think if I had some .6mm rod on hand, I'd have even better results.  I should be receiving some point .7 mm rod tomorrow. So, I won't be doing much more than this trial run today.

 

Wrap brass wire tightly around a secured rod of diameter slightly larger than the wire.

 

Bend the wire into a loop and pass the end through the coil.

 

Snug everything up with pliers

 

Form a tighter Loop at the other end.

 

Clean things up with snippers and needle nose pliers

 

One down.

 

Before anyone asks, I tried simply twisting the wire like most others have done, but doing so weakened the thin brass which resulted in the occasional snap while forming that final loop for the chain plate.

 

Frankly, I think this looks better too.

 

Also, my deadeyes will ride proud of the channel a bit, as they do in the photos you provided of the Constitution last week.  Ken's were flush against the channel.

Edited September 26 by Der Alte Rentner
Added another paragraph

[JSGerson]

I agree with you that 0.6 mm or 0.7 mm wire would provide better results and would be easier to work with.

 

Jon.

[Der Alte Rentner]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I agree with you that 0.6 mm or 0.7 mm wire would provide better results and would be easier to work with.

 

Jon.

It just dawned on me that we may have been thinking of different things.  I was referring to the rod I twist the wire around.  If that were a tad thinner, I'd have a narrower sleeve to pass the wire through, resulting in less tweaking to snug things up - as if I  were seizing.  You are probably thinking I should use a thicker wire for the strop.   I don't think I'll be able to wrap that as easily or as nicely around the .8 mm rod to form the sleeve.   I'll know soon enough if .7 mm wire will work better as the strop or the tool to make the strop. 

 

For what it's worth, I  did try double wrapping the .45 mm wire around the deadeye.  Unfortunately the groove around the deadeye was too narrow to accommodate two wraps. One side was riding higher than the other, and I didn't want to bother with widening the grooves on the deadeyes marginally to mimic the look of the real deal.   I also tried using the .8 mm rod as the strop, but couldn't achieve the result Mustafa did, and, it was too thick to wrap around itself like the .45 mm wire.     I could spend a week trying different things, but I'm happy enough with the above to call it a win.

 

 

[JSGerson]

A single wire around the the deadeye should work perfectly fine. No one will aware what is stropping the deadeye or notice, much less know, that it is not a double wire like the real ship. There will be a whole more interesting things to look at on the model when you are done. You are making a model, not a miniature replica. You've got s good design for your deadeye to strap connection. They will be very pretty when done.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

On my first go-around I wrapped .45 mm wire around a .8 mm rod. 

 

I purchased some .6 mm rod, that I intended to swap the .8 mm rod out with. 

 

Forgetting my intention, I wrapped the .6 mm rod around the .8 mm rod and liked the result so well that I made 18 of the 5/32" dead eyes for use on the channels and chain plates for the main mast.

 

Since I already had 10 of the 5/32" dead eyes from the first attempt, I wanted to finish that batch using the same .45mm wire.  To reduce the amount of tweaking after the initial wrap, I swapped the .6 mm rod for the .8 mm rod and wrapped the .45mm wire around that.  I now have 16 of those, which I will use for the foremast.

 

My concern in using the .45 mm wire was that the loop, which would attach to the chain plate, wouldn't hold up under tension during rigging. After some experimenting, I realized this was not really an issue.

 

Bottom line: it's easiest to work the .45 mm wire then the .6 mm rod.  

 

For the remaining smaller diameter deadeyes, that's the option I will go with.

 

I don't think the casual observer will notice a difference.

 

 

[JSGerson]

They look great. Don't forget to to make sure that all of the channel deadeye holes are properly orientated, That is, the single hole is always closest to the stem. 

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

3 hours ago, JSGerson said:

They look great. Don't forget to to make sure that all of the channel deadeye holes are properly orientated, That is, the single hole is always closest to the stem. 

 

Jon

That had occurred to me.  The channels are marked to indicate fore and aft, top and bottom.  What I am thinking about is whether to try to angle the slots for the chainplates in the channels.  I could just fudge it by making the slots wide enough that there's plenty of wiggle room to maneuver.  If I make them as narrow as Hunt did, they're barely wider than the kit provided channels - no fudge factor there..  And my perfectionist side is nagging at me about the length between the deadeye and the loop.  Remake them with two fewer twists?  Back off bro!  😁 

[JSGerson]

For the most part, the chainplates are aligned and angled as determined by their attached stays. This means they are not necessarily perpendicular to the chanels. Each angled chainplate has a slightly different angle from its neighbor. IMHO, "fudging" the slots to allow angling of the deadeyes should not be noticeable provided any slot widening is done on the bottom side of the channel where it can't be seen. Unless you are trying to be super realistic, which you are not, the slight inconsistencies created by the model maker with the real world are acceptable in a model.

 

Jon

Edited yesterday at 06:03 PM by JSGerson

[Der Alte Rentner]

1 hour ago, JSGerson said:

"fudging" the slots to allow angling of the deadeyes should not be noticeable provided any slot widening is done on the bottom side of the channel where it can't be seen.

very good point.  I'll see what I can do about that.

 

..and, the photo above clearly shows that the chainplates attach to the deadeyes above the channel.  I may have to both angle and widen the slots so the attachment point is in the channel, assuming I don't redo the stropping - eliminate a couple of wraps and shortening the distance between strop and chainplate.

Edited yesterday at 07:45 PM by Der Alte Rentner

[GGibson]

Stropped deadeyes are looking sharp, Peter!  I can't provide any more feedback than what the other more experienced gentlemen have already done.  Job well done, sir!

 

Remind me, though, please.  I did a search of the word "deadeye" in your past posts and can't find a mention of where you procured these deadeyes.  Thanks!

[mtbediz]

6 hours ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

What I am thinking about is whether to try to angle the slots for the chainplates in the channels. 

I angled them with a small file. You either have to make the slots angled or too wide. There's no other way.