wrong stern configuration - is there anything I can do about this?

[hamilton]

Hello there:

 

I posted this question in my build log for Corel's HMS Bellona, but thought it might get more traction here....

 

I seem to have constructed the stern area all wrong - Bellona had a round tuck transom, but you'll see in the photo below that my build has produced a square tuck transom. This seemed logical to me as I was building the framework and installing the first layer of planking - the rudder post only protrudes aft of the last bulkhead by about 1/4" so adding fillers there to create a round tuck wouldn't make sense.....but when I look at other build logs (Nearshore, e.g.) there's the round tuck and I see fillers added....I'm not sure how I missed this!! But it is bugging the hell out of me now.....and I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about it.

 

My first instinct was to start sanding - but given how much material I would need to remove, I don't know if that's advisdable....the other option (beside scrapping the kit!! which is not a real option) is to just leave it as it is, make it with a square tuck transom and consign it to the same realm as other fabulous and fantastical made-up vessels that can be found here and there among the kit manufacturers of the world....

 

Anyways, here's an image that shows the problem....it may be that I'm past help here, but......even knowing that will be useful. Thanks all!

hamilton

[allanyed]

If you study the high res drawings of Bellona 1760 and Dragon 1760 on the Wiki Commons site  you can see the wing, deck, and filler transoms so it MIGHT help you decide.   It looks like you would have to sand away a lot of material that is already installed but it will be covered in the end.  Maybe not worth the effort, but something to consider.

Allan

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by allanyed

[hamilton]

Thanks Allan:

 

Sanding feels like the only option for bringing into line with Bellona's design - but I feel like the risks to the model of attempting this are pretty great...I'll take a look at these drawings and see if I can work something out...I'm honestly confused as to how I got to this point - there is no indication on the plans and Lavery's stern drawings in the AOS are highly equivocal on this part of the ship. Indeed, on at least one of the Corel plans (a profile drawing) it certainly look like the lower hull planking ends at a square tuck transom....but I haven't seen any other builder of this model make the same error, so obviously I missed something really crucial....

hamilton

[hamilton]

Checked out the wikicommons images and the round tuck transom is pretty obvious from the draft of "Dragon" and the paintings, though the profile drawing of Bellona is hard for me to read - I assume that the arrangement of the transoms below the wing supported a round tuck, though my familiarity with draughts is pretty limited.....I am leaning towards continuing with the build as-is, disappointing as that is, since I definitely do not want to risk the kind of major surgery that a re-build of the stern of the model would involve at this stage.....and I don't have the patience to see how far I can sand the stern down to the degree that would be needed - I'm not even sure that's possible......sigh......

hamilton

[allanyed]

Most, if not all of us, feel your pain Hamilton, I know I sure do.   

Allan

[Roger Pellett]

Here’s what you can do:

 

1.  Determine the spot on the hull where the shape is correct.

 

2. With a fine toothed Saw slice the hull horizontally at the height of the horn timber, moving forward from the transom to the spot determined in step 1.

 

3 turn the model upside down and make a vertical cut downward to intersect with the horizontal slice.

 

4.  Glue a block of wood into the space that you just created in steps 2 & 3.

 

5 Carve the block to the correct round tuck shape.

 

Roger

[hamilton]

Thanks Allan - I'm still open to trying something to correct the issue - Roger, your solution could work - I'll have to develop some more confidence before trying it - but the exposed section of the sternpost gives an indication of the correct angle along the sheer plan, while it is relatively straightforward to determine the section line at which the issue begins. My main concern is my ability to actually do this without seriously compromising the model...I wish I had another hull to practice on! In any case, it's not always terrible to have problems and since I won't have time to work on Bellona for a while there will be plenty of time to mull over how to proceed....I thought I was decided, but I may find a way of working up to something like what you suggest here, Roger.

hamilton

[Dr PR]

I have the same problem. I started a kit in the mid 1980s. The plans were incomprehensible (for me). What few books I had said a lot about history and nothing about how ships were built. So I constructed the stern the way more modern vessels are built.

 

This has bothered me, but I really don't care enough to try and "fix" it. I have discovered other errors in the build, and fixed a few. But I am kitbashing it into a hypothetical vessel anyway (everything from the deck up is scratch built). For me it is a learning experience, and I am enjoying the research to learn how these ships were built.

 

Maybe my next build will be "perfect" but for now this imperfect one is good enough.

 

So how much do you care if your Bellona model isn't perfect?

Edited December 12, 2023 by Dr PR

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I have some experience changing the tuck on a shape with an incorrect shape.  It you were to attack the edge of the stern with a coarse sanding block, you will soon opening up the space between ends of the planks and the last frame.  I had a similar problem with DeAgostini's HMS Sovereign of the Seas.  Luckily for me, I had filled the spaces between frames with balsa blocks, so when I sanded the corners off the stern, the plank ends still were attached to the balsa block and were not floating in free space.  All that was necessary was to use some filler to smooth out the modified area, and the filler provided good purchase area for attaching the final planking.  In your case, after you sand away the corners, you will have to insert some blocks of balsa, gluing them to whatever internal surface presents itself (forward face of the last frame, internal surface of the planks, etc.).  Then you can shape the blocks to the desired profile, and add filler to smooth the shape.  Even if the hole you sand open becomes large, you can use blocks of balsa, sticks or blocks of a soft wood such as basswood, and reshape the entire stern without worry.  You're going to cover it with finishing planks, so it doesn't matter where the seams of the wood underneath are.  You just need the structure underneath to be sound and have some strength.  It doesn't have to look pretty.  Such is the advantage of a dual planked hull.  I am of a mind that, if you leave a feature in your model that you know is not the best, you will ALWAYS be bothered by it, even years after the model is done.  Take the time to make things right as you see them, and you won't have any disappointments of your own making.

 

Balsa fill is a lot of extra work, but after shaping and sanding to match the frames, it guarantees a smooth overall hull shape without visible sharp bends at frames and flat spots.

Stern before modification, demi-round tuck, and far too wide.

Sanding the corners round exposed plank ends, and balsa underneath.  At least the balsa is a strong foundation for the final planking.

The shape after final planking.

After painting the bottom with white stuff.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

Don Quixote: "Calm yourself Sancho, there is a remedy for everything but death."   Sancho: "That may be the very one we need."

Edited December 13, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny