Who uses nails?

[bigcreekdad]

I have never used them for hull planking. However, they seem to be included by the hundreds in most kits. I also see a few builds here that included their use. I must admit, using clamps and such to hold planks in place til the glue dries is a pain in the elbow. Thoughts?

[DonSangria]

I used temporary nails to hold the planks of the first layer of planking. After the glue dried, i removed the nails. The resulting hole is afterwards covered by the second planking. For me it was a good solution and easy to acomplish.

[allanyed]

16 minutes ago, bigcreekdad said:

However, they seem to be included by the hundreds in most kits.

Assuming you plan to leave the nails in place, the use of metal fastenings depends on the ship/nation/era.   Scale also matters.  I am pretty sure treenails made of wood were more common than metal fasteners in the age of sail but at scales smaller than about 1:48, even wooden treenails tend to look oversized.  On the real ships, they were near invisible.  There are a number of beautiful French models by Bernard Frolich where he used brass nails but only AFTER the planks are glued in place.  He is explicit that the heads must all be filed off which is no easy task.  If there are not, they will be totally out of scale. 

 

Regarding holding planks in place while the glue dries, if the planks are properly pre-shaped by spiling or hot edge bending, they should should hold with PVA in less than a minute, or even less with CA which some folks prefer.  If you do nail them, be sure they are not fully hammered home so you can pull them out easily unless you prefer to file the heads off.  You can then rub a little PVA in the holes a few at a time and then sand the hull while the glue is wet which will fill the holes with sanding dust and replicate treenails.

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

[barkeater]

I never use metal nails for planking. I trenail everything. That being said I use the nails to attach furniture, to strengthen joints as well as using them to simulate bolts. A lot of times I hide the nails, so they won't be seen from the outside when I need a joint strengthened. I have to admit that although a lot of us complain about the nails and the hundreds that seem to be included with kits, I have had to actually order more as I've run out since switching from kit construction to scratch building. I need to do gun port lids coming up and I'm going to need 4 for each lid with 28 lids. Although I can't see them for planking, they sure are handy for ship modeling.

Rich

Edited December 18, 2023 by barkeater

[bigcreekdad]

What you all say is quite helpful....thanks!

[vaddoc]

1 mm screws can be useful. I ve used tens of thousands of them - replaced by treenails later.

[allanyed]

4 hours ago, vaddoc said:

1 mm screws can be useful. I ve used tens of thousands of them - replaced by treenails later.

This is less than 2" full scale at 1:48 so sounds spot on.   Do you know if there are smaller screws?  For smaller scales such as 1:64 that will leave a hole way over scale. 

 

Are the screws you are using wood screws or??  Can you post a pic, this sounds like a solution for many builders?

Sorry for all the questions😕   

 

Thanks Vaddoc!

 

Allan

[Dr PR]

BCDad,

 

Back in 1969 I built my first ship model kit, the Santa Maria by Billings Boats (I think). Before that I had built two scratch builds (a schooner and a Chris Craft motor yacht) before I knew there were such things as wooden ship model kits (or could afford one).

 

 

The kit had tiny steel finishing nails, the instructions said to use them, and I did. They were used to hold the hull planks in place on the bulkheads. I didn't like the looks of the metal heads so I countersunk the nails. Then I mixed a paste of wood dust and glue and filled in over the nail heads. It didn't work all that well.

 

 

 

That was the only time I used nails for planking the hull. In all subsequent builds I glued the planks in place with wood model cement (like the Duco nitrocellulose in acetone glue). I used rubber bands and a bit of ingenuity to hold the planks in place until the glue dried (it sets in 20-30 seconds and hardens fully over night).

 

I still use small brass nails like Barkeater does.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Dr PR

[vaddoc]

17 hours ago, allanyed said:

This is less than 2" full scale at 1:48 so sounds spot on.   Do you know if there are smaller screws?  For smaller scales such as 1:64 that will leave a hole way over scale. 

 

Are the screws you are using wood screws or??  Can you post a pic, this sounds like a solution for many builders?

Sorry for all the questions😕   

 

Thanks Vaddoc!

 

Allan

Allan, if you google "1mm Philips self tapping screws" you ll get lots of results. I buy mine from Aliexpress, different lengths with 5 and 6 mm more useful. Last time I bought 20k!

Best is to use 0.8 mm drill. The stainless steel are better than mild steel as the head resists deforming which can make removal impossible. I have had difficulty recently finding good quality proper hard stainless steel ones (if they are non magnetic they are the good ones)

 

Smaller screws are extremely expensive available in very few specialist shops. However, you can thread brass wire and use it to screw things together but it is very labour intensive,

 

vaddoc