Phantom 1868 by Greg Davis - Model Shipways - 1:48 scale - New York Pilot Boat

[Greg Davis]

8 hours ago, juhu said:

Thank you for the reference to scratch built Phantom, must go through it. The attached book picture brings to me one technical question. What was actually the purpose  of that grating? I believed it was to drain the water out of the cockpit. But in that case it should be in cockpit floor level. But I might be wrong here, may be there was some special scupper for that? I believe there must be some way to get water out. But for sure the grating in the picture with noticeable step above the cockpit deck in quite a cramped space opens for me the question, what was it good for?

I had been thinking about this as well. I don't know the details of the actual construction of a cockpit in such a vessel. My guess is that the grating allowed one to stand above most of the water that made it into the cockpit area, a region that would be less slippery than the deck itself. Also, it would help keep the person from standing in water whenever there was some - so a bit dryer. But, as you note, there would need to be a way for the water to leave - otherwise, it would end up in the cabin. I have two guesses on how that may have been done - one is that there could be drainage pipes on each side of the cabin opening (due to the direction of deck slope) that led to scuppers, the other is that there could be drainage pipes to limber and then the water was pumped back out of the ship. The former seems like a better idea to me because the drainage would be passive, whereas the latter requires crew work.

 

It would be great if someone that knew the actual answer could share!

 

 

[juhu]

Well, am also eager to hear other opinion. I also first thought of grating being some kind of prevention to stay out of the water, but this is simply hard to believe, at least to me. Water must go away, rather than to build some platforms in the cockpit to stand above it. I have checked for example BJ's America or cute Lively schooner kit or other ships of similar design. I somehow feel the grating would make sense if laid flush with the rest of the cockpit bottom deck. And water drainage is somehow made under the grating possibly?

 

Also, to prevent helmsman from slippering, I see some simple battens are usually fixed to the deck as a feet support (I remember this nice detail from BJ's Smuggler kit). But yet I believe in rather small enclosed cockpit this might not be necessary at all. The cockpit side walls might well suit as needed support. 

 

From my limited charter yacht sailing experience, having such a stepped platform around the wheel, always to check I do not fall over that step would be pretty annoying :). But again just my guess too. I simply do not like the idea of stepped up grating as proposed in that photo, but will be happy to be corrected. 

[Greg Davis]

I'll keep my eyes open for additional information about the grating, in the meantime I now have created the right amount of space for the cockpit to drop under deck level. It looks like a mess, but it will provide a stable base for the ensuing work.

Here's the material I plan on making the cockpit walls from:

This 1/3 mm Costello Boxwood - its pretty thin; a lot of light shines through the sheets. I had made this for another modeling project (Santos Dumont #18 Hydroplane) and have a lot of extra, so I don't need to make more for this model. I'll be using 3 layers to build up the walls. The kit came with a mold for the wall to be 1/4". I will need to make a new mold so that I can form some material to a height of 1/2" to accommodate the depressed cockpit floor.

 

 

[Greg Davis]

9 hours ago, juhu said:

Well, am also eager to hear other opinion. I also first thought of grating being some kind of prevention to stay out of the water, but this is simply hard to believe, at least to me. Water must go away, rather than to build some platforms in the cockpit to stand above it. I have checked for example BJ's America or cute Lively schooner kit or other ships of similar design. I somehow feel the grating would make sense if laid flush with the rest of the cockpit bottom deck. And water drainage is somehow made under the grating possibly?

 

Also, to prevent helmsman from slippering, I see some simple battens are usually fixed to the deck as a feet support (I remember this nice detail from BJ's Smuggler kit). But yet I believe in rather small enclosed cockpit this might not be necessary at all. The cockpit side walls might well suit as needed support. 

 

From my limited charter yacht sailing experience, having such a stepped platform around the wheel, always to check I do not fall over that step would be pretty annoying :). But again just my guess too. I simply do not like the idea of stepped up grating as proposed in that photo, but will be happy to be corrected. 

Juhu -

I've learned a bit by consulting Chapelle's book 'Boatbuilding' - he writes "Cockpits in seagoing boats should be strongly built and, if self-bailing, should have scupper pipes of sufficient size to drain the cockpit quickly. The cockpit scuppers should be installed before the cockpit floor is laid. Cockpit scuppers should lead to just above the load water line. Cockpit scupper pipes are sometimes crossed, so the port scupper empties to the starboard, and vice versa; this prevents the leeside flooding." 

 

I still have not found anything about the use of gratings; however if the grating were cut into the cockpit floor planking, then there would need to be another level of planking (or such) to collect the water passing though the grating. In the Volk, Davies-Garner picture, the grating is sitting on the waterway, so water could go through the grating and then flow on the cockpit floor toward the cabin where the scuppers would be located. This does make some sense to me - it would keep the helmsman standing above the water in some cases as the water drains away - but I am not a seafaring person, so just more guesses on my end!

 

Greg

[Dr PR]

On the ships I served on the gratings were raised above the deck enough to allow water to flow under them. An open cockpit on a small vessel like the schooner would occasionally be awash in heavy seas. so the raised grating puts the helmsman's feet a bit above the sloshing water.

 

However, this keeps the feet only relatively "dry." On the 112 foot minesweeper I was on the open bridge was 15 feet (4 1/2 meters) above the water line. In heavy weather waves occasionally broke over the bridge, We had a raised grating but it didn't keep us dry. Sometimes we had 6 inches (15 cm) of water sloshing across the deck. The grating only allowed the water to drain off our feet some of the time.

[Greg Davis]

Well, so far, today has been 2 steps forward and 1 step back!

 

I made a mold for the cockpit bulwark and currently have a layer of the to be laminate drying in the mold:

Then I went about attaching the stern decking plywood subfloor. All was going well until the model slipped out of my hands and fell to the floor; I went to pick it up and promptly dropped it again. All of the bulwarks have detached. A good illustration of how weak the flush joint is. If the model had been designed with timber heads embedded prior to adding the bulwark, it is possible that everything would still be intact.

This marks the first time on of my models have made it to the floor on its own - I hope it doesn't happen to often in the future!

 

I feel fortunate that no serious damage has been done - besides detaching the bulwarks there is a small dent in the edge of the stern basswood piece. A small amount of filler will be needed, but once painted there will be nothing to notice. Now I've decided that the bulwarks will remain off until the deck has been planked. I'm even going to view this as a positive, because now it will be easier to sand / smooth the stern deck planking! 

 

Happy Thanksgiving to all that celebrate!

 

[Greg Davis]

To day I milled some 1mm swiss pear wood for the stern deck waterways. I decided to form them in three pieces - not as detailed as Volk, Davies; there the waterway was modeled with 7 pieces. I milled in slots for the timberheads to drop into. They are all 1/8" wide and will receive 1/8" square timbers that will be tangent to the bulwarks.

 

[Greg Davis]

Another bit of progress today. I've got a subfloor cut from 1/32" plywood and fitted for the cockpit. Once it was trimmed to match the opening, I was able to use the piece to fine-tune the depth of the cockpit - it is now a uniform 1/4" as needed. The two small holes are so I could use tweezers to move the piece in and out of the depression. It w

I milled a bunch of 1mm thick maple today, as I have thought about using it for the deck planks. The wood at the bottom of the picture (above) is some of the material. I took cuts from two directions of the '1 by' piece of maple I had gotten. Some cuts from the top of the stock and some cuts from the edge:

I'm not sure I like either. Material from the top has a pronounce pattern, and that from the side has a lot of 'dots'. Maybe time to get out some C boxwood instead. Thoughts?

[juhu]

From those shown I would pick the one at the bottom for planks. Definitely would avoid anything with prominent coloured structure....

[Greg Davis]

This is what some C Boxwood (I milled today) looks like in comparison with the maple. The wider slice is the same swiss pear that the waterway / covering boards were made with.

I like the grain much more in the C Boxwood, than in the maple, and it is very much like that in the pear. But, I like the lightness of the maple. I don't have any holly - but is it worth another expenditure on this model? 

[Greg Davis]

The cockpit bulwark is out of the mold and fits nicely! The top will need to be trimmed down to the final height later. Space will also need to be made on the fore side where the cabin fits in.

 

[catopower]

Greg, just now caught your work on the 1/48-scale Phantom.

 

I have a fondness for American pilot boats. The old 1/8" scale solid-hull Phantom was my first ever build, and it made me fall in love with wooden ship modeling. I was surprised to see the new 1/4" scale kit, and immediately thought about ordering one, but I have lots of projects I should finish. 

 

Enjoying reading your posts. Beautiful job you're doing!

[Greg Davis]

2 hours ago, catopower said:

Greg, just now caught your work on the 1/48-scale Phantom.

 

I have a fondness for American pilot boats. The old 1/8" scale solid-hull Phantom was my first ever build, and it made me fall in love with wooden ship modeling. I was surprised to see the new 1/4" scale kit, and immediately thought about ordering one, but I have lots of projects I should finish. 

 

Enjoying reading your posts. Beautiful job you're doing!

Thank you so much for the positive comments!

 

I also have lots of projects that I should finish - but I still had to have this one. 

 

Greg

[Greg Davis]

Yesterday / today spent time making and fitting a margin plank around the exterior of the cockpit bulwark. It was made from 4 pieces of swiss pear - not quite as fancy as the one on the Volk, Davies model, but a nice addition.

I did order some holly as possible decking material. Not sure how long it will be before it shows up. While I wait there certainly are other things that can be done on the model!

[Greg Davis]

Among other things is that eventually a couple of masts will be needed! Today I formed two 3/8" square C boxwood trips to serve as blanks for the lower portions of the main and fore masts. 

 

Here is a place where the kit, specifically the plans and instructions, needs to be expanded in terms of information that should be included - especially since this model is being marketed as one for 'beginners'. I don't have any problem at all with dowels being supplied for the masts - and the supplied ones are not terrible. I just wanted something a little nicer for my model. However, it would have been a good thing if there were seperate drawings of the masts. Instead one needs to look at the profile drawing where the mast disappears at the top rail. This leaves the modeler with determining the additional distance to the deck - but maybe more importantly, the instructions do not tell the modeler to make allowance for the distance the mast steps into the false-keel. I have a feeling that there are goi9ng to be a number of these Phantom models made with shorter than expected masts!

 

Anyway, here's the blanks, currently they are a few inches longer than what will be needed.