gun equipment

[garyshipwright]

Hi everyone and Merry Christmas.

Have a question about the gun equipment or more on the size of it. I have looked through books, such as Goodwin,Lavery and a few other's and so far have not come up with the dimension of the items such as the crow bar, sponge, and the other items that the gun crew's needed to load and move the gun's around. I know that some of the items such as the thickness of the sponge probably depended on the hole of the barrel but what about the length of it and the handle and it's size. One would think this was easy information to find but so far its sort of hidden from me.  Thanks in advance and Happy New Year.

Gary

Edited December 26, 2013 by garyshipwright

[mtaylor]

Gary,

 

You might do Youtube searches on cannon fire, civil war.  While dimensions aren't given, the shafts couldn't be too big or the rammer/sponger couldn't handle them.  The vids might give you an idea of length. 

[WackoWolf]

Gary,

 

   Let us know what you find and also what you decide to use for lengths. It is a good question and I would suspect that there will be more than one answer to it. I just order this book "A treatise of Artillery" it should be in sometime next week or the week after, just maybe I might be able to get an answer for you. I will let you know if I can find anything for you.

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Mark and Wacko. I have come across pictures of them in books such as The Irene and Brain Lavery's, The Arming and fitting but no scale to figure out the sizes. Bourdroit gives a couple of plates in his 74 gun book, plate XXXIX and plate XL. The first plate doesn't give a size and the second plate says 1/12 scale which should be a big help. I have gone through severely of the Bourdroit books to see if they have this detail on any of their plans, but so far nothing. Always thought that each gun had all the same tools but they don't. If you guys come across the invertory of ships around 1780 could be some help. Another book that I have by Nicholas Blake, Steering to Glory, A Day in the life of a ship of the line, has what I would call plates and the fourth plate show's the layout of the gun crew. It does show the rammer and the sponge as one tool and the worm and maybe the ladle as another tool. It also show's the match tub,salt box's and a few other items. Funny how much one needs to know about them, such as how big was the match tub. It does appear that 3 matches are sticking out of the top of it, makes you think that maybe two or three cannon's worked out of one. Well Back to work. Gary

[uss frolick]

I have just such a handwritten document for the US Navy, circa 1820 for both "guns" and "carronades" . (Chorus: "Jeez Frolick, is there anything you don't have?") But it is too long to transpose it here, at least for now. Is there one item specifically that you're looking for?

 

Here's an example for match tubs:

 

Carronades:

 

"Match tubs: One and one half diameter of the bore of the piece in height; Two diameters of the bore of the piece is the diameter of the bottom; One and a half the diameter of the bore of the piece is the head; to have two iron hoops; the head sunk one inch in with the holes in it; the staves to be made of oak; head and bottom of pine."

 

Then there is a little table listed out to "tenths of an inch". 24-pounder Carronade tubs, for example, would be:

 

" Height 8 inches, 7 tenths;

Diameter of head 8 inches, 7 tenths;

Diameter of bottom 11 inches, 6 tenths."

 

I believe the 24-pounder's bore diameter is about 5 1/4 inches.

 

For long-guns match-tubs, the formula is different:

 

"Match Tubs: One and three fourths the diameter of the bore of the piece in height

Two and one fifth the bore of the diameter of the piece is the diameter of the bottom

One and three fourths the diameter of the bore of the piece is the diameter of the head. To be made of oak staves, the head and bottom of pine; 3 iron hoops; the head sunk in one inch, with three holes in it."

 

I assume that the carronade match-tubs would have had three holes also, even though is wasn't mentioned.

 

Therefore, from a separate table, a long 24-pounder's match tub would have been:

 

"Diameter of the head  10 inches, 0 tenths;

Diameter of the bottom  12 inches, 7 tenths; 

Height 10 inches, 0 tenths."

[garyshipwright]

Hello Mr Frolick and thank you very very much sir. I added your information to my research pile and will come in real handy. One other favor sir but can you provide a link to the information above. My ideal is to add gun equipment to the guns on Alfred but doesn't seem like I have had finding measurment of the equipment, that is untill you posted the above items. Thank you sir and your help is greatly appreciation.

 

Gary

[uss frolick]

There is no link to share, but I have a full paper copy of the original. As time allows, I'll transpose it here. I assume the 1820 American Navy rules would do just fine for RN ships 1770-ish.

[WackoWolf]

Gary,

 

   I got the first book in. It only shows a picture of the equipment and not a description of any of the stuff. But as far as Cannons and other ship guns it tell you everything which you already have. Sorry. I think "USS frolick" has gotten the best information for you this far.

[trippwj]

While it may not answer all questions, you may want to check for the 1809 2 volume American Artillerist's Companion by Louis de Tousard (I found both volumes on Google Books).

 

Doing a quick look through volume 2 (which has more on Naval artillery) I found the following table:

 

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Guys. I do believe that all of it will come in handy and thank you very much. If you have any more it not only will help me but some other poor lost soul trying to find his way home. Gary

[trippwj]

Gary -

 

I came across the following whilst perusing my copy of the 1691 Seaman's Grammar and Dictionary by Captain John Smith.

 

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Wayne. Will take a good look at it sir. Gary

[dafi]

The length of Rammer etc. is very easy: Length of the barrel plus some extra to handle it properly :-)

 

And - my god - I found out that they are loooong for the big guns.

                                          #518                         

 

Cheers, DAniel