Bounty by Mike Dowling - FINISHED - OcCre - 1/45

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks CF. No you are quite right I haven't tapered any planks yet. I really am trying to understand your help. Do I need to go back and try and remove some planks or can or taper from where I have got to now. Which side of the plank do I taper from? I believe I have to leave one side untouched in order that the next one has a flush surface, is that right? Since I haven't yet worked up from the keel how do I work out how many planks I need at each place?

I am sorry to be so thick but I really am trying to get this right.

I can't understand why the stern is OK but the bow is going wrong.

 

I will check out drop planks tomorrow but if you can think of any other way you can help my simple brain please let me know.

[hamilton]

Hi Mike - that is one big hull!! What's the overall length with the bowsprit? Anyway - she looks great

hamilton

[Mike Dowling]

Hi Hamilton, thanks for the post. It might look great but I have a nasty feeling I have some undoing to do!

I don't think I have put the bowsprit (?) on yet but as she is she measures 62cm stem to stern.

[Cannon Fodder]

One thing you can do is measure your first bulkhead from the most recent plank down to the keel along the curve of the bulkhead where you are gluing the ends of the planks at the bow and measure the bulkhead you thought to be the biggest same method from the last plank edge down to the keel and then compare. It will give you a gross idea of how much taper there is at the bow in the space that is left. First do this with that we can work forward.

[Captain Al]

Measures a bit less than my bounty I think. Mike, have you tried drawing all this out on paper? I find that when I don't quite get it, the visual side of me takes over and I can scratch out something on paper. I've done this with the planking theories and maybe (just maybe) I'm beginning to understand not only why we taper but where. The next thing is how much. Use graph paper if you have some and draw a parallelogram (big words for a geometric dunce like me). Then divide the longest side into equal pieces. I have (conveniently found in my desk) a notebook of graph paper with the squares being exactly 5mm, the size of my planks. (oh, and btw, maybe I'm wrong but I think my planks are 1x5, not 2x5 as Capt. Fisher said earlier his were). Then draw parallel lines from right to left. You will see how you run out of space as you approach the shorter side of the parallelogram. You know, this shape may be a trapezoid, not a parallelogram, cause two of the sides are not parallel. Anyway, you can then divide the shorter side into the same number of planks as the longer side, and you'll know how wide the planks need to be on that side. The difference between the long side and the short side is the amount of taper. Example, long side is 30 inches, short side is 20. Planks are 5 so you can fit 6 in on the long side. But six into 20 is 3.33 inches. 5 minus 3.33 is 1.67. This is the amount of taper needed. You would mark the short side, draw a line and start to whittle it down. Hope all this is correct and helpful.

[fifthace]

Mike this is a photo of the first planking on my Soveriegn, so the quality of the tapering etc isn't 100%, but it should give you the general idea. I've marked on the plank edges on one side to make it clearer to see...

 

[Mike Dowling]

Hey all, thank you very much for your posts and suggestions. What I think I will do is take a picture of the bow so you may be able to tell me better where I went wrong. It started off OK. I think, if it is the way forward that I can remove the last 3 strakes from about the middle of the hull (longitudinally) to the bow. It might take a bit of soaking but I think they would come off.

I will also do some measuring and see what that suggests.

Not quite sure I understand your trapezoid idea Al but might PM you on that if you don't mind.

Thanks Dom I see what you mean but I am not sure which side of the strake you taper. Is it the side nearest the hull or the top deck?

 

I may not do much today as it is my Birthday but will get back to you all as soon as I can.

Again, thanks so much.

[Mike Dowling]

I have just measured the remaining space on the widest bulkeads left to plank. 3 of them are practically 10cm. The space left on the bow is 5.5cm if I can remove 3 strakes or 4cm if I leave them. The longest remaining distance or length is 26cm.

 

The strakes are 5mm wide. The lowest one on these pictures is not yet glued but I might be able to remove the three above it.

 

I am not sure but I think you will know - if I started at the keel working up I think I could get in even more of a mess?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fifthace]

You would need to remove the last 6 planks from the bottom up, as they at least would need to be tapered. Cut along the top edge and bevel that same edge so you don't create a gap.

[Capt.Fisher]

Happy Birthday Mike!

What you should really do now is leave modelling alone and concentrate on some other activities, which are more appropriate to the occasion!

[Cannon Fodder]

Don't hate me.

You're gonna need this: http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingfan.pdf

[Captain Al]

Can't help you much Mike. Like I said earlier, I'm just beginning to get the concept but if I look at your pictures the first thought I have is "so what's wrong?" Then I look a bit closer and see that at the stem there is less room for planks than back at midship. So I guess that's where the problem lies and why tapering is the solution. But I thought you had said back when that on this first planking you did not care if the planks ran all the way around the hull in one length. So why can't you just plank up to the point where you run out of space, and then end your planks there, filling in the final triangle at the lowest part forward of the hull with shorter, narrower pieces. I mean for a double planked hull, these first layer planks are no more than filler anyway. Your next layer you can plan out precisely and do it the scientific way. This would at least save you from removing six planks. I think removing stuff is tougher than putting them in in the first place. Good luck and have a wonderful B-day. Don't even read this til its over.

[Captain Al]

CF, that is exactly what I was trying to describe in words -- except this picture carries it to the extreme of a point (making it a triangle). If you cut off the upper few inches you have the trapezoid I referred to and the concept is clear cause you can see the lines distinctly enough to count the "planks" thereby recognizing that there are still the same number of planks on both ends of the drawing, just differing in width. Helpful picture. Thanks for posting it.

[Cannon Fodder]

Hey Mike, for your birthday I'm going to make a video on how you can use this planking fan to figure out your taper with some of the measurements you've shared. Some I will make up however for demonstration purposes. STAY TUNED. I'll have it up my tomorrow, I promise. Reading out it hasn't helped but maybe a video might...

[Mike Dowling]

^{Hey, thanks both. I can't believe you are taking so much trouble. AL I hope you are at least learning rom my mistakes and CF I really can't see how removing the whole six strakes is going to help. Presumably I only need to remove from the widest bulkhead to the bow. Don't forget that unless I am a real dunce that the stern is fine and the planking for the transom OK.}

 

^{Having sent pictures of the bow, somebody please tell me how to taper the necessary strakes for the first planking.}

^{AL,  I do agree with you, I could make the damn thing smooth even if I do it with papier mache! But I am trying to get my head round this wretched process just in case (!!!!!)  I ever decide to do a boat again!}

 

^{Had a good Birthday thanks guys and gals except for this boat. I do so want to get it right but I am not a mathematician and never have been.}

^{If only someone could show me how to do it in real time I think I would grasp the concept. Words and graphs and fans are just not doing it for me!}

 

^{So, CF anything you can manage would be very gratefully received, not just by me but I think by AL as well as he has only single planking safety.}

 

^{Onwards and upwards all, I haven't hit it with a large hammer just yet!!!!}

[fifthace]

The problem you will have with those 6 planks is when it comes to sanding everything flush before the second planking will make those area's at the end very thin.

 

You may end up inadvertantly putting a hole in that area whilst applying the 2nd planking.

 

In your defence though, I think what has made life harder is that solid bow section.

 

It's been throwing me in how best to fix the problem you have been having

Edited April 6, 2014 by fifthace

[Cannon Fodder]

Mike I need some more information.

 

You said 26cm from edge of last installed plank to the keel?! Along the edge of the largest bulkhead. Is this correct? Which bulkhead is it?

And roughly 5.5 cm at the first bulkhead.

 

5mm planks that leaves you with 52 planks to go! On the one side. I have hard time seeing the 26 cm. I would measure again. And post a pic, while you're at the camera a straight-on bow shot will help as well.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Cannon Fodder

[Cannon Fodder]

So I opted out of the video, and went with pictorial. I posted it in my Swift log as I found it impossible to try and explain without a model. The way I see it, you either try to learn this now with the bonus of your mistakes getting covered or learn it with your second layer of planks and your booboos are all out for people to admire.

 

How else are your going to plank that second layer... Embrace this journey...picture yogi instructor...find your chi...

 

Feel free to inundate me with PM's about it.

[Jase]

The way to work out your tapering is to measure your gap at the widest point (usually in the centre rib)  then measure your gap at each end.  Calculate how many strips you need to cover the widest point of the gap then calculate how much you need to reduce the width of each plank by so that they all fit in the gap when sanded to a taper.

You probably should have put a stealer or two in.

 

 

This might help you

http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aa115p.html

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jase

[Capt.Fisher]

Great site!Thanks a lot Jase, I will use it a lot!

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks for the post but I am just even more confused now!

[Captain Al]

Here's a weird analogy.  Picture ten runners running a 1500 meter race.  They start in individual lanes and run a couple hundred meters.  Then they're allowed to cut into the center lane and they all bunch up there.  So now there are 10 runners in one lane (more or less).  If you were to trace the path of all of the runners, you would have a tapering into the narrow one lane from the wide ten individual lanes.  There's still 10 runners but they are taking up much less space on the track.  Weird, I know.

[Mike Dowling]

I guess that works for the fan template then? However the runners are taking up the same space they did before, they are just in one line instead of 10!

[Captain Al]

No, they are not. My "picture" isn't totally accurate. They don't end up single file in one lane, they end up shoulder to shoulder in what amounts to maybe two or three lanes. If the lanes are 4 feet wide, then at the start they are taking up 40 feet of the track width. After they've bunched up they take up 10 x the shoulder width of a skinny long distance runner, maybe 2.5 feet x 10 or 25 feet. So just like the fan narrows at the bow, so does the amount of track needed to accommodate these ten runners.

[Mike Dowling]

OK, OK! I told you I was no good at maths but I am getting my garboard plank on! It might not fit, it might need sanding and filler and goodness knows what else but it is going on!

[Mike Dowling]

^{Hello, a few pics for you to see to show my 'undoing' and my additions.}

 

^{I partially removed six planks from the bow to at least give me a bit of room for some tapering and, on further advice have now put on the garboard plank and one other.}

 

^{I know folk like to see the bad news as well as the good and at least you can see that I am trying to work through the 'following instructions' error!}

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fifthace]

Much better. Garboard seems to have gone on ok?

 

You need to work on where the planks meet the keel, doesn't matter so much this time but certainly when you come to do the second planking you will want to try and get as snug a fit as possible. This is constructive criticism. Remember the extra time and patience will be worth it at the end...even if you do end up wasting wood, it can easily be replaced

 

Before you continue now though, those 6 planks you removed, replace them, but taper them, (make them thinner near the bow), and you will find they will lay much flatter against the frames and not clinker quite so much. Unless you get it spot on straight away they will still clinker a little, but this is first planking plus you will have some leeway with the thickness of the planks to be able to sand out the clinkers after the 1st planking is finished.

 

That bow is still throwing me I must admit   But after you've done that resume planking from the bottom up, allowing the planks to sweep upwards towards the bow, and eventually the small "edge" of a lower plank will butt up against the long lower "edge" of the upper planking, and so on, until the gap gradually gets smaller not only vertically but horizontally as well.

 

Good work Mike, sometimes it's better to go back a few steps. With my Soveriegn build, I made a mistake, thinking I was clever, and I had to soak the rear of the keel/frame structure in hot water to soften the wood glue so I could remove what I hade made mistakes on and then clean it up and redo it...had I not dont that, I'd not have been able to get the stern to fit correctly.

 

Keep going, it's all learning...and good fun!

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks Dom, I appreciate your comments and I realise that however careful I am the bow is going to require a lot of sanding and tweaking before the second layer. I really do wish that the wood was not so thick and a bit keener to stay bent! Hey ho!

I will ignore the instructions for the second planking anyway and plank to the decks not the waterline. I think I can make a much better job of that.

[aliluke]

Hi Mike

Hold back that hammer! You have stuffed up the first planking - apologies for saying so - but it doesn't matter at all. Fill out the planking as best you can and then fill it to buggery to get a smooth hull. I think leaving off the planking at the bow - which your instructions must suggest - is a mistake. Taking the planks through to the stem, as hard as it is, tells you how they should run. I don't calculate planking at all. No maths, no science (one day I'll do better than this...). The simple mantra when you get to the second layer is "It must flow upwards". As soon as the planks run horizontal or turn down you are in trouble. So for the second layer taper the planks for the stem and stern from way back on the hull until they flow upwards. Do this straight away, that is, only one - the first plank - isn't tapered. Every single plank after that is. As long as the planks follow this flow - upwards - you can put aside the maths. That said, Bounty is a tough hull with such a bluff bow and you'll probably need some joggle planks at the stem and stealers at the stern to keep that upward flow. Also don't feel you have to run the planks the full length of the hull. Split them up so that you manage them.

 

Put away the hammer! Make it flow upwards every time and you'll be all right.

[Mike Dowling]

Thank you for the suggestions, much appreciated.

Don't make apologies, I know the planking is a complete mess but I was stupid enough to follow the instructions. You will aware if you have gone through the whole log that it was a problem about to happen - and it did!

 

Anyway, my concern now is just to get the hull covered and work from there ignoring instructions for the second plank.