HMS Snake by drtrap - Caldercraft

[drtrap]

It looks good as far as technique goes, but I think your seizing should be much smaller diameter rope - like thread sized probably, or very small rope - and it would look better.  When you look at photographs of real seizings (for example Google search images for the Constitution rigging) the seizing rope is very small in diameter compared to the line being seized.

 

Here's a nice photo (linking to a Flickr page) - https://www.flickr.com/photos/ghrs47/14580207322/in/pool-old_ironsides

 

Make sure to click on the image to expand it to full size and you can then scroll around the image by moving your mouse.

 

If you look at that full size, it's still difficult to make out the seizings on the shrouds, but they are visible.  You can also see numerous other seizings on the other rigging lines, and they can all be seen to be very small rope relative to the main line being seized.

Hi Brian and thanks for your comment and the link provided.

I've used No 10 cotton line just to help myshelf to handle better the seizing procedure and especially to see only how the served rope without damage fits to a zip seizing of 1,5mm diameter (for 1mm served ropes), independently of the size of the seizing rope.

 

To my knowledge, the size of the rope for seizing is always 0,25mm.

Cheers.

 

Stergios

Edited November 9, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

Basically I need to improve this simple knot seizing but I'm searching the technique for a better and smooth appearance of the seizing...

Edited November 9, 2014 by Stergios

[Beef Wellington]

I'd agree with Brian, you definitely want the serving line to be thinner.  There are a coupke of techniques that I've used, are you trying to have a single loop at the end of a rope?  I think these would typically have been done with a splice, and thats the method that I try to use - you serve just enough line to make the loop, then create the false splice, and then serve from the neck of the loop as far as you need.  That method removes the need for any seizing, in my virw gives a cleaner look and (I think) is more accurate.

 

Where seizing is appropriate (for example, where the shrouds are seized to make a loop that goes round the mast, I typically just go with the thin thread used for the serving, and do 3 pairs of overhand knots (i.e. one at back, one at the front x3).  That keeps things quite neat and unobtrusive.

[drtrap]

I'd agree with Brian, you definitely want the serving line to be thinner......

Jason, you would like to say the "seizing" line instead of the "serving" line, I suppose.... 

Edited November 9, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

....... then create the false splice, and then serve from the neck of the loop as far as you need. .....

How do you stabilize and keep attached  the loop on the device to continue the serving from the neck as far as you need?

Edited November 9, 2014 by Stergios

[Beef Wellington]

How do you stabilize and keep attached  the loop on the device to continue the serving from the neck as far as you need?

 

Use one of the 'hooks' that come with the serving machine and place the loop over it.   Using two hooks allows rigging with both ends looped to be served (e.g. catharpins, burton pendants)

[drtrap]

I think these would typically have been done with a splice, and thats the method that I try to use - you serve just enough line to make the loop, then create the false splice, and then serve from the neck of the loop as far as you need.  

Jason, hi again.

Have you any pics to attach to enable me to understand those steps better (especially about the false splice, do you use any custom made jig to serve only the line to make the initial loop?

Sorry for disturbing again your time! 

[GuntherMT]

Jason, hi again.

Have you any pics to attach to enable me to understand those steps better (especially about the false splice, do you use any custom made jig to serve only the line to make the initial loop?

Sorry for disturbing again your time! 

 

Take a look at this post by Gil Middleton - it's amazing and may answer every question you ever had about this part of rigging.  It shows the shrouds served over the masts in great detail, and explains how to do a false splice (he calls it a simulated tapered splice).

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/485-hms-victory-by-gil-middleton-jotika-172/?p=9951

[mort stoll]

I used simple black thread to serve my lines, right from the thread counter. Nothing fancy, just simple thread.

 

Mort

[Beef Wellington]

Jason, hi again.

Have you any pics to attach to enable me to understand those steps better (especially about the false splice, do you use any custom made jig to serve only the line to make the initial loop?

Sorry for disturbing again your time! 

 

Brian's post has it all with Gil's pictures, thats exactly what I'm describing

[drtrap]

I had served (before your last posts) enough 1mm rope to create served burton pendants for the mizzen mast of the Snake.

My plan was to make the serving of a desired length of rope in advance and turn/create the loops of the pendants at a later step, like Ray.

I don't know yet what's the easiest way for the loops.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

I'm searching any link to understand better how the served shrouds are seized around the masts.

Can you help anyway?

Thanks

[foxy]

I believe the copper plates go all around the bow section, and maybe you should fold around and then continue the strait line to the stern.

 

If you stagger them at the front of the bow end, then you will get the correct join effect down the  sides of the hull.

 

Hope this helps.

 

foxy

[drtrap]

I believe the copper plates go all around the bow section, and maybe you should fold around and then continue the strait line to the stern.

 

If you stagger them at the front of the bow end, then you will get the correct join effect down the  sides of the hull.

 

Hope this helps.

 

foxy

Sorry ??

[foxy]

You have nothing to be sorry about.

 

Its lovely work.  just pointing out how you could make it easier and line up ok.

 

But its your build and if its painted the same as the tile's then that's fine.

 

Frank

[drtrap]

You have nothing to be sorry about.

 

Its lovely work.  just pointing out how you could make it easier and line up ok.

 

But its your build and if its painted the same as the tile's then that's fine.

 

Frank

Hi Frank

I thought you were referring to my queries about the shrouds serving... 

In every case you can click on the "quote" tab for a better understanding of the post or the picture you're referring to.

Thanks again

 

Stergios

Edited November 11, 2014 by Stergios

[jim_smits]

I'm searching any link to understand better how the served shrouds are seized around the masts.

Can you help anyway?

Thanks

 

Not quite the same build but I will (hopefully) be serving and seizing the shrouds on my Ballahoo main mast tonight. I will take prictures of the process and post on my build. Hope this will help you out a bit.

[drtrap]

Not quite the same build but I will (hopefully) be serving and seizing the shrouds on my Ballahoo main mast tonight. I will take prictures of the process and post on my build. Hope this will help you out a bit.

Thanks a lot Jim.

I'll be here to follow you!

[drtrap]

Hi everybody

Let me present you my point of view for the mizzen burton pendants using the served (with No 40 cotton line) 0,75 rope of the kit.

I'm definitely a fun of zip seizing. Those are three pairs of seizing created around a wire/axis of 1,5 mm diameter

The line for the seizing (as a basic rule is #0,25mm)

Well I have passed those three pairs of zip seizing through the served line of 0,75 mm

Created the main loop for the eye at each edge and secured with a double knot

The distal pair of seizing placed then and secured (using pva on the left edge and hypo gs cement on the right to see the final resluts)

 

Those are the semi-final results

Edited November 15, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

Later on I have passed the second served line through the same two proximal pairs of seizing to create a kind of loop to suspend it around the mast... 

These are the two served branches side by side

...and suspanded around the lower mizzen mast

 

Thank you

 

Stergios

Edited November 15, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

I've left the two pairs of seizing unglued and the second line-branch untrimmed till the next placement of the shrouds to see better the relative lengths etc

 

I have nt used water pva to simulate better the gravity of the pendants.

I hope that water pva works fine and do not interfere with the serving of the ropes...

[drtrap]

I think that my way for the serving was a modification of Brian's and Jim's shipyards.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

Hi guys

I'm about to serve the shroud to create the served loop for the lowermast

 

but I'm not sure about the length of that "served loop" I have to create...

Is there any basic rule for that?

Thank you for your help.

 

Stergios

 

PS: Thank you Jason for the photo...

Edited November 22, 2014 by Stergios

[drtrap]

Where are my naval ranks ?? 

[jim_smits]

Stergios

 

I would say stick with a similar length that you used for the shrouds. So at a guestimate around 1.5 - 2cm for the loop plus some extra to run a short way down the stay.

 

As for the ranks, I think they are redesigning the ranking system. There's a short thread about it.

[drtrap]

Stergios

 

Looking good from here

 

​I have just bought a sizing machine from Alexey and will be back at my builds soon

 

Cheers

Geoff

Hi Geoff

I'm only three steps ahead of you, practising and serving lines...

Waiting to see your serving progress and discuss our initial procedures!

Cheers

 

Stergios

[drtrap]

Stergios

 

I would say stick with a similar length that you used for the shrouds. So at a guestimate around 1.5 - 2cm for the loop plus some extra to run a short way down the stay.

 

As for the ranks, I think they are redesigning the ranking system. There's a short thread about it.

Hi Jim and thanks

I've attached this photo, showing the starting and ending points for the serving of each loop for the lowermast.

I hope to be this way on the safe side...

Thanks

[drtrap]

...trying to avoid those "dirty" white remnants of pva glue at the rope-deadeye junction.

I've stropped a third deadeye using hypo gs cement with better results but I'm not sure about its mid- to long-term results 

[Beef Wellington]

Stergios, I tried to document my approach here...http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/509-hms-snake-by-beef-wellington-caldercraft-scale-1-64-first-wooden-ship-build/page-35#entry150463

 

The knots really hold everything together, the glue really just holds the final knot from coming undone so does not take any strain, the GS Hypo has worked just fine.  It may not be the purists approach, but got the job done for me.

 

Because each pair of shrouds sits on top of the previous one, the length needed to serve also gradually increases if you want to get a nice straight line across the shrouds.  For example, if I was using 1mm thick line, I simply served an extra 2mm on each successive pair of shrouds.  Its an approximation, but it works OK.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[drtrap]

Stergios, I tried to document my approach here...http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/509-hms-snake-by-beef-wellington-caldercraft-scale-1-64-first-wooden-ship-build/page-35#entry150463

 

The knots really hold everything together, the glue really just holds the final knot from coming undone so does not take any strain, the GS Hypo has worked just fine.  It may not be the purists approach, but got the job done for me.

 

Because each pair of shrouds sits on top of the previous one, the length needed to serve also gradually increases if you want to get a nice straight line across the shrouds.  For example, if I was using 1mm thick line, I simply served an extra 2mm on each successive pair of shrouds.  Its an approximation, but it works OK.

Thanks Jason

how you already know, my (recent's time) concern is to make clear which proportion of each pair of the shrouds needs to be served...

Edited January 21, 2015 by Stergios