Sweep ports and oar

[greenstone]

Good evening!

Can you please tell as the brig or frigate fixed oar in sweep ports?

What form did oarlock (rowlock) and how it was attached to the board? 

 

 

 

[druxey]

There were no oarlocks attached to sweep ports. The sweeps were pushed through the ports only when needed.

[greenstone]

But sweep port wider than the oar. 

Do not fastened during rowing oars?

[michaelpsutton2]

Part of the issue is that the thickness of the bulwarks limited the amount of movement possible of the oars unless the port was bigger than the shaft

[druxey]

The width of the sweep blade was such that it would slide through the port on the diagonal.

[Mike Y]

Stupid question related: where the oars were stored? I'm looking on Pandora's anatomy book, and oars look ridiculously long if you think how to store and move them inside the ship... Or they were made out of a multiple sections, that could be assembled and locked together?

[druxey]

Sweeps were probably bundled and stored with the spare spars above the waist of the ship. In a smaller ship these would rest on the gallows crosspiece aft  and and forecastle breastwork.

[Mary Stanton]

I was looking at the sweep ports on the sides of the US brig niagara today, and wondered how water does not enter the ship through them?

[allanyed]

Mary,

If a ship was fitted with sweep ports, there are hinged covers to keep any water from splashing in when not in use.  If the sweeps are deployed, it would be most likely be due to the ship being becalmed so no worries for water coming in those conditions.   

I see this as your first post.  Welcome to MSW!

Allan

[CapnMac82]

On 8/26/2019 at 10:18 PM, Mary Stanton said:

and wondered how water does not enter the ship through them?

There are a number of "holes" in wooden sailing vessels.  So, you design the vessels to collect that water and drain it away.

 

A small vesel, like a cutter or sloop is likely to have the lee rail be very wet when tacking upwind.

 

Pretty common, in contemporary reports, to show the bilges were sounded once per watch, and pumped as necessary.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

On 8/26/2019 at 11:18 PM, Mary Stanton said:

I was looking at the sweep ports on the sides of the US brig niagara today, and wondered how water does not enter the ship through them?

Neither her gunports or her oarports can be shut, they have no covers and can’t be closed. On Niagara those ports are six feet above the waterline, and they’re all slightly higher than the MUCH LARGER gunports anyway so they represent no greater significant way for water to get aboard. Niagara was designed as a lake boat and not optimized for blue water ocean sailing so her low freeboard isn’t necessarily a drawback. 

This would be an entirely different story were she intended for ocean sailing though and all her ports would likely be closeable and very likely she’d have higher freeboard designed in.  In fact I’ve heard talk that the modern day Niagara is financially constrained by her inability to safely transit deeper ocean waters under the stability certification she holds from the US Coast Guard and her owners are considering structural changes-including raising the height of the bulwarks-to make her more seaworthy. This would certainly include portlids.

As things stand on Niagara I’ve never seen photos of water coming aboard as she sails healed over. Sailors love the excitement of sailing in intense conditions and there would certainly be photos of Niagara “burying the rail” if it’d ever happened. But instead you can’t even find photos of Niagara healing at all,she appears to be remarkably stiff. 

[Roger Pellett]

Greenstone,

There are period sketches of sweeps in bundles stowed outboard over the quarters of brigs, cutters, And Schooners.

 

Frank,

I would assume that her stability certification involves her range of stability as from what your observation indicates that she is plenty stiff.  With her large open gun ports her righting arm would dimish once her deck edge becomes submerged.  

 

Roger

[bruce d]

2 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

There are period sketches of sweeps in bundles stowed outboard over the quarters of brigs, cutters, And Schooners.

Roger, could you point me at one of the sketches? I have been over-thinking how to store sweeps and maybe a good picture will clear my head-clog.

Thanks, Bruce

[JerseyCity Frankie]

16 hours ago, bruce d said:

Roger, could you point me at one of the sketches? I have been over-thinking how to store sweeps and maybe a good picture will clear my head-clog.

Thanks, Bruce

Here’s shots of modern Niagara in which her sweeps are visible stacked on a pair of crutches. Frequently the crutch is incorporated into the fife rail as depicted in the drawings. Many ships of all sizes would carry spare topmasts and if the ship was too small to feature a hatch with skid beams large enough to acomodate those spars lying on deck, they were sitting on the crutches. Often the ships boats were in turn lashed onto the spare topmasts. Many ship models can be seen with the spare topmasts but few of them also include the sweeps. 

[Roger Pellett]

Picture below of an American Schooner with sweeps stored in bundles ootboard on each quarter.  Antoine Roux painted vessels that he saw in the Mediterranean from life and his work is generally considered to be highly accurate.

 

Roger

 

[bruce d]

9 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

… his work is generally considered to be highly accurate.

… and it helps untie the knot I have made for myself. My impression, based on who-knows-what long forgotten source, was that the channels were used if sweeps were stowed outboard on a small vessel. The picture clearly shows another arrangement. Thanks Roger.

 

3 hours ago, JerseyCity Frankie said:

modern Niagara in which her sweeps are visible stacked on a pair of crutches.

Frank, thanks, that is useful but the only contemporary images of my subject do not show a structure of that height. I believe if the sweeps were stowed on deck they must have been lashed or secured under the ship's boat(s) and even that seems crowded. I am still looking for contemporary models for clues. 

 

Much appreciated, will let you know if I find anything..

Bruce

[dafi]

On 9/29/2019 at 3:25 PM, JerseyCity Frankie said:

Neither her gunports or her oarports can be shut, they have no covers and can’t be closed. 

That is as one has to think differently. The problem was not water coming over, the issue was to evacuate very fast the water that managed to come over. Big risk of instability and draining inside. 

 

Graham Moore describes in his diary nicely the situation, where the carpenter managed only in last second to knock of the lids of some ports to let all the water out after a big wave came over.

 

XXXDAn

Edited October 14, 2019 by dafi