Vasa by mar3kl - Billing Boats - scale 1:75

[md1400cs]

Mark,

 

How did you make the rings for the platforms?

 

I have not figured that out with propers scaling. I wet and then bend basswood, but its still not right because I can't bend rings that have any upper surface without creasing the bits.

 

So I just use out of scale small strips. Your rings look great. PS: I don't want to buy more tools (:-) Frank (fmodajr) has a great tool for that, but if there is an alternative??

 

Nice work,

 

Michael

Edited October 25, 2015 by md1400cs

[mar3kl]

Luckily I didn't need to fabricate the rings.  The kit provides them as laser cut plywood pieces.  They are too thick, so I did need to delaminate the plywood layers, but that's all.

 

Here are some photos of the main mast platform.  Again the opening in the base was wrong and needed reshaping.  You can see here how the planking went:

 

 

Then the excess trimmed...

 

 

The rings added - again, one fewer than the kit provides, and all thinned down by a third.

 

 

And finally the completed platform.  The braces were again split in half so I had enough to do 16.  The real ship's platform has more, but I thought this was enough.  You can see the char on the edges from the laser cutting - I couldn't sand it off because the pieces were too delicate, so it'll have to be carefully painted over with a wash.

 

 

 

[md1400cs]

Mark,

 

Well this bit is another reason for future Vasa builders should probably avoid Corel's version. Hindsight is always 20/20  (I don't know what the numerical references are for modified ETDRS charts in Europe{6/6.0{?) but you get my drift (:-)

 

Your platforms, as I noted above look great.

 

MIchael

[mar3kl]

The Billings kit does appear to be more accurate than the Corel, but it has plenty of its own problems.  Maybe some day Fred and the Vasamuseet will come up with the perfect kit...

 

A couple of photos of the mainmast.  It follows the same design as the foremast - there are two cheeks with slots cut in them and in the mast for the yard lift pulleys.  Here I ran into more trouble.  First, the cheeks are a different size from what the plans specify, and they don't fit properly under the pre-cut trestles - they are just too small.  So I fabricated my own pieces slightly wider.  You can see the difference in size below:

 

 

 

Next, the kit dowel stock for the masts is oddly from different kinds of wood.  The wood used for the mainmast looks completely different from the other masts, both in color and grain.  I fixed this by putting a color wash on the mast that toned down the differences somewhat.  You can see the result here:

 

 

Here's a photo of the completed mainmast and the foremast.  The mainmast has woldings as well as iron hoops.  The plans don't specify the hoops, but I copied the look from photographs, using black paper.  You can also see the fore topmast and the main topmast laying on the deck.

 

 

The main topmast was almost identical in construction to the fore topmast - same size platform, slightly different running rigging blocks.  Again I'm following the plans' specification for the rigging blocks and hoping I won't get into trouble later.

 

[mar3kl]

And the mizzenmast.  Here's the platform, identical to the fore and main top platforms and the sprit platform.

 

 

And the mast in place.  I've tried to match the rake to the mainmast rake, both slightly less than the jackstaff rake at the stern.  I ended up removing the large lantern - it seemed out of scale and distracting.

 

 

Here's a photo of the sprit top jackstaff in place.  The kit didn't provide dowel stock for them that I could find, so I bought some.  All the jackstaffs are basically the same - slightly tapered toward the top, with a thin slice of wider dowel at the top for a cap, and a small single block for the flag halyard.

 

 

And a photo of the topmasts and topgallant masts.  All mostly the same, and you can see the shaping of the bases so that they fit correctly in the trestles but don't foul the cheek pulleys.

 

 

And finally a photo of the completed platforms.  They were a lot of work but turned out pretty well.  I still need to figure out a good way to make futtock plates and to connect the deadeye strops to the plates.

 

 

Now it's time for some standing rigging!

 

 

[mar3kl]

A question for Vasa builders out there - the fore-stay is attached to the bowsprit using a pair of deadeyes.  The plans show one six-hole deadeye from the stay end and one four-hole deadeye attached to the bowsprit.  How is the lanyard routed between them given the differing number of holes?  Seems not possible to me.  The instructions are of course inscrutable - all the deadeyes are labeled "deadeye" and it's only by a bunch of process of elimination that I was even able to figure out that they are paired 6-hole to 4-hole.  There is a routing diagram for the lanyard but it's confusingly laid out and I can't understand it.  Looks like the mizzen stay and the main stay are done the same way.  Any advice?

[marktiedens]

I believe the correct way is to use 2 large 3 hole blocks as in this picture.

 

 

Mark

 

 

[mar3kl]

I've looked at a few photos of the 1:10 model, the real ship, and Clayton's scratch model.  While hard to make out detail, they all seem to show a deadeye setup.  Clayton's has six holes in the top deadeye and four in the bottom, like the kit plans, but the lanyard routing isn't clear at all.

[marktiedens]

Here is another photo of a ship in a museum in Berlin. At the top left corner of the picture you can see the 3 hole blocks attaching the fore stay to the bowsprit.

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

[md1400cs]

Mark,

 

GOOD eye. Here is an example of a European scratch built. I has sold commercially. This builder seems to be spot on with everything about this ship. I did not notice what you just posted. You are right Clayton's photos are hard so see regarding the lower block. I'm going to "look around" for poss. more info.

 

[md1400cs]

Mark,

 

I found this from Calyton's. Also the Billings rigging sheets show what you have done. Hmmm 

 

OK time for dinner or after all this stress I may first need a cocktail (:-) )

 

[marktiedens]

You may be right about those 4 & 6 hole blocks . However ,I don`t know how you would rig them - one too many holes.

 

Mark

[mar3kl]

It's quite puzzling.  I don't know how you'd run the lanyard either, hence the question.  And why would you bother having a different number of holes anyway - what purpose would it serve?

[mar3kl]

I've decided to fabricate my own 6-hole deadeyes for the lower stay fitting rather than use the kit's 4-hole deadeye.  That solves the lanyard routing problem and I'll just hope people don't look too closely :-)

[mar3kl]

I started the rigging with the mast tackles.  The plans appear to be incorrect here.  First, they specify no tackles at all for the mizzen, just an extra shroud.  Next they specify an extra tackle for the mainmast, three per side instead of two, which conflicts with other sources I've looked at.  Finally, the foremast tackles look like they are in the wrong place.  So I needed to wing it.  Peering carefully at various photos gave me conflicting advice on what the tackle blocks look like and how they are rigged, so I just kept it simple: large double blocks above for the main and foremast, and small double blocks above for the mizzen.  Large single blocks below for the main and foremast, and small single blocks below for the mizzen.  Here's the foremast setup, two tackles per side:

 

 

And the mizzen, one tackle per side.  I'm hoping the tackles won't cause problems when I add ratlines - it's possible the tackles won't be sufficiently inboard of the shrouds.  We shall see.

 

 

And finally the main tackles.  I'm in the process of adding a shroud here - you can see how the deadeye lanyards are routed.

 

 

[RobZorba]

About the bowsprit - foremast block and tackle arrangement ....  Do these two pictures of the Vasa in the museum help? ... The lower block has only 3 holes, I guess the upper one 3 or maybe 4 ...

 

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by RobZorba

[mar3kl]

I believe the upper block is a violin block with one upper and one lower sheave.  The lower block is single sheave.  I didn't want to deal with making violin blocks, so I went with a double block instead.

[mar3kl]

And an update from Fred Hocker about the 6-vs-4 hole deadeye debate...

 

The lower deadeye in the pair has four holes, the upper six. Both deadeyes survive for the forestay, but only the six-hole deadeye for the mainstay. The lanyard is rigged with one end tied off to the lower deadeye collar, then led to the upper deadeye, then the lower, and so one. The last turn goes through the sixth hole in the upper deadeye, and the end is made fast back on the collar of the lower deadeye. This was a common setup.

Fred Hocker

[mar3kl]

The shrouds were more tedious than anything else.  I used scale rope from Syren, because the kit-provided material is not in my opinion of good quality - it looks like string, is too white, and too fluffy.  Figuring out diameters was tricky because the plans don't really mention them.  I looked in two places.  First was "The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast."  This is a reprint of a book that is almost 90 years old, and it contains a bunch of useful, although general, information about rigging something like Vasa.  Second was a masters thesis entitled "La Belle: Rigging in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast."  This paper had a particularly useful reprint of a document from 1667 showing relative rigging sizes.  After a bunch of reading I came up with reasonable approximations based on the sizes available from Syren.

 

I had also attached the lower deadeyes to the chain plates using metal strops, rather than the kit-recommended thread.  While this looks nice, it was difficult to securely fasten the strops to the chain plates, and I had a few misfires that needed to be re-attached.  

 

The following photos show the foremast shrouds at distance, and where they are attached to the top of the mast.  You can see that they alternate starboard and port, and are ordered fore to aft.  Keeping the tension uniform was tricky, particularly since installing the fore stay will add tension, and possibly start pulling deadeye strops off the chain plates.  

 

 

 

 

[mar3kl]

Here are the mainmast shrouds.  Very similar to the foremast shrouds; the only difference is an additional single shroud on each side.  Technically this should be a single length of rope with an eye splice in the middle to go over the mast.  I tried splicing, since the scale rope is laid properly and in theory it's possible.  In practice I couldn't do a good enough job, so I just seized a collar of sorts and that looked reasonable.

 

 

The shrouds at the top...

 

 

And a close-up at the bottom.  The deadeyes are stained mahogany so they don't contrast too much with the hull planking.  The lanyards are thin rope, not thread.  The seizings are ordinary thread, waxed as needed to get rid of stray fibers.  The scale rope needs almost no waxing; I'm not sure why, but it's quite nice on its own.

 

I've left the shroud and the lanyard ends untrimmed.  That's because there were several cases where I misjudged the shroud length slightly and without some extra on the ends I would have had to undo the whole shroud rather than just the end.  Getting the ends lined up is surprisingly tricky; everything stretches a bit as additional shrouds are set up.

 

 

[fmodajr]

Your rigging is looking good!

Well thought out!

 

 

Frank

[mar3kl]

Thanks for the compliment Frank!  This part has been fairly straightforward.  We'll see how it continues to go.

 

The mizzen shrouds were a relief at this point - only four pairs.  The only potentially troubling aspect is that they attach to the channels slightly forward of the mast rather than behind, so when the stay introduces additional tension on the mast, the shrouds may slacken slightly.  I tried some different shroud tensions (had to make sure the strops didn't pull out of the chain plates!) and I think what I came up with will be OK.

 

Here's a shroud in the early stages of attachment, with just the collar seized.

 

 

And the finished result.  Again I'm leaving the shroud and lanyard ends untrimmed just in case there's some stretching and I need to redo a shroud or two.

 

 

And that's it for the lower set of masts.  Next up are the stays.

 

[md1400cs]

Here are the mainmast shrouds.  Very similar to the foremast shrouds; the only difference is an additional single shroud on each side.  Technically this should be a single length of rope with an eye splice in the middle to go over the mast.  I tried splicing, since the scale rope is laid properly and in theory it's possible.  In practice I couldn't do a good enough job, so I just seized a collar of sorts and that looked reasonable.

 

vasa-45.jpg

 

The shrouds at the top...

 

vasa-46.jpg

 

And a close-up at the bottom.  The deadeyes are stained mahogany so they don't contrast too much with the hull planking.  The lanyards are thin rope, not thread.  The seizings are ordinary thread, waxed as needed to get rid of stray fibers.  The scale rope needs almost no waxing; I'm not sure why, but it's quite nice on its own.

 

I've left the shroud and the lanyard ends untrimmed.  That's because there were several cases where I misjudged the shroud length slightly and without some extra on the ends I would have had to undo the whole shroud rather than just the end.  Getting the ends lined up is surprisingly tricky; everything stretches a bit as additional shrouds are set up.

 

vasa-49.jpg

Mark,

 

Excellent work. Your shroud detailing at the mast tops is so nice. PS: what size Syren did you use for those shrouds .025?

 

Michael

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

Maybe this information comes too late but in lanyards of stays was used deadeyes or hearts.

This was also on Vasa.

 

Fore stay lanyard.

Main stay lanyard.

Mizzen stay lanyard.

Vasa model in Vasa Museum

 

Tadeusz

[mar3kl]

Michael - each set of shrouds is a different diameter.  The treatise I mentioned a while back had a document from the late 1600s that talked about rope circumference relative to mast diameter for a whole variety of rigging - very interesting.  For the mizzen shrouds I used 0.45mm rope, for the main I used 0.88mm, and for the fore I used 0.63mm.  The lanyards were 0.30mm and the seizings under 0.2mm.  Those diameters aren't exactly correct, but those are the sizes Syren has, and they are close enough.  I'm very happy with the Syren rope - the larger diameters are cable laid very nicely.  You just need a dot of CA at the ends to avoid unraveling.

 

Here are some photos of the fore-stay.  At the mast head it's supposed to end in a small eye splice.  The rope is fed in a loop through the eye and held in place with a mouse.  The 0.63mm rope was laid properly and I tried to splice it, but there was just too much unraveling and it turned into a mess.  Instead I seized the end back on itself, which doesn't look too bad.  The mouse is just thread wrapped around and around until it forms a small ball.  Not the correct way, but good enough.  Here you can see the result prior to setting it up on the mast head.

 

 

Here are a couple of views of the stay in place - you can see how the mouse stops the loop.  The loop passes outside the trestles.

 

 

 

And here are the infamous deadeyes!  The kit supplies a six-hole for the top and a four-hole for the bottom.  I just couldn't figure out the right way to route the lanyard.  Fred Hocker says seize to the lower collar, then up to the top deadeye, back and forth until you're done, and seize again to the lower collar.  But that leaves an extra hole on the top deadeye, which seemed odd.  The other two sources I mentioned earlier talked about more traditional lanyards - two five- or six-hole deadeyes, a knot behind the top one, back and forth, and seized at the top.  So I ended up fabricating extra six-hole deadeyes and running the lanyards that way.  Here you can see the result:

 

 

If anyone has detailed photos of the 6-hole/4-hole way, I'd love to see them.

 

And finally the stay in place.  It has to be fairly tight so that when the sprit topmast crowsfeet attach they don't pull the stay up too much.  The result looks pretty good I think.

 

 

[md1400cs]

Mark,

 

Thanks for the info regarding shroud diameters. I will follow your lead.

 

I also agree Syren ropes are so excellent. Chuck's ropes will be used 100% to rig my ship.

 

Your Fore-stay with the deadeyes at the bowsprit mast are so so nice. Looks perfect. I have also decided to keep the six hole deadeyes (already mounted)

 

====================

 

PS: regarding rope glue. Have you tried G-S Hypo cement?  I have been using this glew for all rope applications including running a small bead at the tips ( thumb and fore-finger won't seize together as with CA as you twist and straighten the end)

 

The dried glue disappears once dry on tan rope, and on black rope a tiny brush stroke of clear flat (model paint) also make any visible glue disappear. Available at Amazon and Michael's craft stores + others I'm sure

 

Michael

 

[mar3kl]

I'll give the adhesive a try.  I'm not a big fan of CA and a good alternative would be nice.

 

So Fred Hocker posted a clarification on how the stay deadeyes are rigged, and now I need to decide whether I want to dismantle the lower deadeyes, convert them to 4-hole, and rig them the "right way".  The right way is to use two lanyards that are mirror images of one another.  Both start at a becket above the lower deadeye, loop through three upper and two lower holes, then have their ends seized to the collar below the lower deadeye.  It's odd looking but works.  Reworking the existing stays would mean replacing and re-rigging all three lower deadeyes and their collars.  Not a huge amount of work, but annoying.

 

Meanwhile some previous photos of the mainstay.  Here's the mainstay collar - very long and looped around the bowsprit.

 

 

And the deadeyes...

 

 

And the upper stay rigging - again no eye-splice, just seizing the end upon itself to make a loop.

 

 

[mar3kl]

And finally the mizzen stay.  Here is a closeup of the collar and deadeyes.  I fabricated a six-hole lower deadeye to match the upper one because at the time Fred hadn't responded with his information about how to correctly route the lanyards to a four-hole lower deadeye.

 

One thing to be careful of here - the collar needs to have a bit of length on it because if the deadeye is too close to the mainmast, the yard lift tackle will foul on it.  I'm hoping the tackle falls will be able to run on each side of the collar without too much trouble.

 

 

And the stay in place.

 

 

Now it's time to start the ratlines.  I suspect that until clove hitches get wired into my brain this will be slow going, so likely no updates for a while.  I'm using Syren 0.3mm diameter rope, which scales out to a bit under one inch in diameter.  I thought about thinner diameter rope but I'm concerned that it will be so light that getting it to hang properly will be difficult.

 

 

[mar3kl]

Sorry for the long absence.  I've actually made good progress on the rigging, just taking forever to get photos uploaded.  It took a long time to do all the ratlines - in the 10 years or so since the previous model I built I'd forgotten how many knots there are!  It took a long time to get clove hitches into muscle memory, so the first side of the foremast shrouds isn't quite as nice as I'd like.

 

I experimented with the best way to proceed with the ratlines - top to bottom or bottom to top.  Turns out top to bottom worked best for me; bottom to top caused too many issues with tension of the shrouds as I worked my way upward.  In any case maintaining the right tension was for me very difficult in the beginning.  I ended up having to undo several rows because they were causing curves in the outermost shrouds, or causing lines above them or below them to hang oddly.  I found myself having constantly to run a straight-edge along each shroud to make sure odd curves weren't working their way in.  Then there was also constant measuring that each row was level with the row below and above, that each of the lines hung the same way.  All in all a very fiddly task that I don't want to do again!

 

The kit provides no indication of a futtock stave at the top, but other rigging sources indicate it's there.  I took a toothpick, drew it down so it was thin, and then attached it with thread at each junction with a shroud.

 

The finished result.  I brushed the entire rows with white glue heavily diluted with water, just to make the lines hang as nicely as possible.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by mar3kl

[WackoWolf]

beautiful work. Keep the post and pictures coming. Thank you for sharing this with us here on MSW.