USS Constitution by fletch944t - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 - 1812 Era

[russ]

Fletch:

Regarding the plans vs the framing pieces in the kit, I would say that you should build the model and not worry as much about whether the bulkheads match the plans. If you get the hull faired as it is, you will be okay.

 

Russ

[GLakie]

I tend to agree with Russ. It's very likely we may be just over-thinking this and should just run with what we've got. Just check the BHD's for symmetry and fair them using the plans as a rough guide. It still doesn't help the would-be scratch-builder but, speaking for myself, I won't be doing that anytime soon anyway. 

 

Cheers 

[GMO2]

Russ is right. Those early shiprights had to operate in rigid accordance with the dictates of the TLAR school of engineering.~~~That Looks About Right. I reckon my measurements fell within an inch from spot on at the scale of 1~76. I bet that if those early shiprights had benn able to determine that their frames had come within an inch of symmetry they d ave done backflips.

[GMO2]

George,I got my kit in Ithink 2010 or early 2011,but from an online source,not Model Expo.I dont know how M. Expo handles their printing and laser cutting , but I bet its not inhouse. The plans appear to have been very well drawn,but are subject to two avenues for error.It would be hugely difficult to go through something as complex as the Conny plan and root out all the inconsistencies and reconcile all the little errors from one sheet to the next.Next,the copying process tends to introduce its own distortions. This plan does not appear to be computer generated,at least not to me. The same applies to laser cutting.There are lots of laser cutters serving the RCaircract hobby,with varying reputations for quality and accuracy.Isuspect that these processes have been outsouced to dirrerent suppliers over the years,possibly,having variable levels of quality control.Its just the nature of trying to get a complex product out the door at a price enough of us can abide to sell enough of them to make all worthwhile

[GLakie]

Yeah, you're probably right. As long as the actual bulkheads are all pretty much symmetrical, I don't for-see any major problems, and as for fairing, the plans are really just a guide anyway, with the final fairing being done on the keel.

 

Hope everybody has a Happy Holiday

Cheers 

[patrickmil]

Fletch, your findings are consistent with what I experienced. I did pick one side and go with it though. I realized that I would be applying some filler wood to some of my bulkheads anyhow. As far as fairing the hull goes. I typically eyeball it and go with what feels right when I lay a test plank down. From what I have copied and redrawn and redesigned I plan eventually on scratching the United States out of these plans.

[fletch944t]

I received my kit on November 3rd of this year. And, I have noticed that the boxes that kits are being shipped in now are different that earlier shipped kits. However, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

Since the bulkheads themselves are symmetrical, I'm not worried about the plans for THIS build. However, like several others on MSW, I was considering using the plans for a scratch build of one of the other US Frigates down the road.

 

Additionally, I had already contacted Model Expo to see if it would be possible to purchase a set of the Constitution plans enlarged to 1:64 scale for a future larger scale scratch build of the Constitution. Since I never heard back from the Model Expo folks, I had started experimenting with scanning the individual bulkheads and expanding them to a size appropriate for 1:64 scale. And, until I discovered this problem with the plans I was pretty happy with the results I was seeing. I was even to the point of printing out the full sheets on a plotter (except our plotter was out of service).

 

Consequently, my only choice now may be to retain my hand drawn patterns, scan them, and then enlarge those to be appropriate for 1:64 scale.

 

 Fletch

[CaptainSteve]

Could you not go to the source for a copy of the plans .... the US Navy ??

 

Since they are currently working on their own 1:1 model, I just figure they must have something lying about the place.

Just a suggestion ...

Edited December 22, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[trippwj]

Best available plans at US Navy are as is not as built. There are not a lot of as built plans for those frigates, but rumor has it that a private project is underway to transcribe the narrative documents into a useful publication of some sort.

[robnbill]

The plans on the Navy Site were for the 1927 refit. 

[robnbill]

If you are looking at actual plans for scratch, you could also look to the Anatomy of a Ship for the Connie.

[robnbill]

Of course the Navy plans and the AOS plans do not have bulkheads. You would need to decide where you wanted yours to be and draw them out based upon the Half breadth, Sheer, and body plans. 

[CaptainSteve]

The plans on the Navy Site were for the 1927 refit. 

 

Too true, Bill,

 

But, as the current re-fit is supposedly to bring her more into line with 1812 specifications, then I figured the Navy might have had some kind of agenda ...

(They don't seem to me to be the kind of organisation that would just 'wing it').

Edited December 22, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[robnbill]

I wonder when those plans will be made available to the public?

[trippwj]

There is a CD of many of the existing plans and drawings (mostly from the 1927 rebuild) available from the Museum Store for $15 at http://store.ussconstitutionmuseum.org/products/uss-constitution-plans-for-model-ship-builders-and-general-researchers

[robnbill]

At least some, if not all, are available on line for free at http://www.history.navy.mil/USSCTour/FileReference.html.

[fletch944t]

I have numerous sets of plans (both AOS and the disc of drawings from the Constitution museum) to use as resources for future builds. But, regardless of what resource I use, I will eventually have to convert it to the correct scale for the build.

 

At the time, the MS plans were convenient to work with because I was making copies of them to use for checking the bulkheads and marking the fairing lines anyway. And, because the MS plans were already in "bulkhead" format, working with them instead of developing a new bulkhead plan from the loft and line drawings in the original plans was even more desirable (i.e. for future builds). So, as I was copying them, I also made a scan of them which I later enlarged. Unfortunately, because the MS plans are not accurate, I'll have to go back and pick a different set of plans to use for future builds and develop bulkheads from scratch (albeit loosely based on the current MS bulkhead plan).

 

The good news is, I don't really have to worry about this at all for several years. And, since I'd like to do one more kit build after this one before I attempt a scratch build, probably several years beyond that. So, I can now proceed with my current Constitution build as is since I'm confident that I have a set of symmetrical bulkheads.

 

So, as I mentioned earlier, my next step is to taper the stem and stern posts. I'll also fit the bulkheads to make sure there are no problems. Then, I'll bash the bulkheads to begin construction on the gun deck.

 

Fletch

[patrickmil]

Fletch, on with your build then! I'll definitely be tuning in to the coming years to hear about your scratch build.

[GMO2]

In the final analysis,the best way to deal with all of it is to just make concessions to the brevity of life.Try as you might you will never root out and eliminate all the little errors and inconsistencies,not to mention uncertanties inherent in such an activity as this. For one thing Mr. Murphy will never allow it. For another ,at least if you are like me,building such a complex critter as this ship without introducing my own set of error just aint gonna happen.Not even from a perfect set op plans and laser cutting.Iam just happy to find myself in that tiny slice of the great mass of humanity who can open the box look at the plans and relish the prospect with anticipation instead of being completely overwhelmed by all the difficulties, which is the usual reaction.In my case,it was a gift from a very worried father to a very sick little guy more than sixty years ago. Along story for another time.

[fletch944t]

I'll try and post a few pictures tomorrow. You can't really tell a lot from them but, I did finish tapering the stem and stern posts. I would have had more time to post some pictures but, my better half keeps hounding me to get the house ready for some holiday that's coming up.

 

Anyway, Happy Festivus. Gotta go finish putting up the Festivus pole.

 

Fletch

[fletch944t]

Here are a couple of pictures of the stern post taper and the stem. I'm not so sure I don't need to taper the stem a bit more. But, for now I'm going to leave it as is.

 

 

[fletch944t]

Fitted up all of the bulkheads. Several of the slots on the false keel required a lot of work to get the bulkheads to slide in. I actually broke the framing for the spar deck at the top of bulkhead "E" trying to get it to slide in. I glued it back in place before proceeding just so I could make sure everything lined up okay. The lesson I learned here is that if you encounter an appreciable amount of resistance, stop and sand/file the bulkhead slot a little more.

 

The good news is that, for me, I'm going to cut the spar deck framing off anyway since I'm going to model the gun deck. Normally, in addition to cutting away the spar deck framing you'd cut down the bulkheads and false keel by 1/16" to account for the thickness of the gun deck planking. However, I plan to put down two sections of 1/16" sheet prior to planking the gun deck. So, I'll be cutting the bulkheads and false keel down 1/8".

 

Also, I may attempt to use the fairing lines from the plans to get the fairing on the bulkheads close (even though I already know the shape of the bulkheads on the plans is inaccurate). Then once I get the bulkheads back on the false keel, I'll adjust the fairing as necessary.

 

 

[robnbill]

She is coming along.

[robnbill]

Fletch, I have attached a pdf of a scaled Brodie Stove drawing. I did this based upon the AOS and other documents related to the stove. You might want to use it since you will be building a stove for the gun deck.

 

I have this in DeltaCad shut you want it in a CAD format. Just let me know if you do.

 

 

Brodie Stove.pdf

[patrickmil]

Fletch, I'm glad to see some pieces coming together. I like what you have planned for the gun deck. I will be anxious to see how you do yours.

[CaptainSteve]

Nice start, Fletch.

This is gunna be one worth watching !!

[GLakie]

You're off and running Fletch. I'll be pulling up a stool as well if you don't mind.  

 

Happy Holidays to you and yours Fletch! 

 

[fletch944t]

Thanks Bill,

 

One of things I've been scratching my head over is what I was going to do about the stove. That will really help to move things along.

 

Fletch

[JSGerson]

Here another set of plans for the Brodie stove plus a little practicum on how to make the stove by Allan Yedlinsky. I hope these help.

Ship's Stove Plans.PDF

Ship's Stove - Yedlinsky.pdf

[fletch944t]

Thanks for all of the info on the ship's stove guys. It'll really shorten the fabrication time since I won't have all the time invested in researching dimensions.

 

I started laying out fairing lines on the bulkheads today. Hopefully by the end of the day tomorrow, I'll have all of the bulkheads marked, faired, the spar deck framing removed, and the bulkheads and false keel cut down to accept gun deck planking. We'll see how it goes.

 

Fletch