HMS Pegasus by herbgold - Victory Models - Scale 1:64

[herbgold]

You haven't seen the stern, Mike!

[cobra1951]

I would advise taking those screws out ! Throw them AWAY they have no role in the build!

For temporary fittings use the pins supplied  into drilled holes and dont push them home

 

I agree, those screws will tear the wood up, there is no pressure on the deck so only a small amount of downward force is needed to keep it in place until the glue sets

[herbgold]

I haven't fixed down the deck yet - if you read above you will see that I had already described the screws as a mistake.

Edited June 28, 2016 by herbgold

[herbgold]

No no, I wouldn't do that! Onwards...

[Martin W]

Whew! Glad to see you got that annoying step out of the way.  That's really the Swan Builder's initiation rite:  if you get those gunport strips on without throwing the whole build out the window, then you're in for the duration.

 

Bravo, and Well done.

 

Martin

[herbgold]

Thank you all once again for your advice and encouraging words.

 

Of course there's a problem - there would be - the starboard gun ports are about 3mm further back than the port ones. I am not going to unglue them again, instead thinking of either enlarging the port ones backwards by 3mm or the opposite with the starboard ones. I think I will be able to cover up when I timber the sides. But it will all have to wait until we come back from our week in the French Alps - I can't tell you how much we're looking forward to getting away from Britain for a bit.

[cobra1951]

That idea is perfectly feasible extending the gun port cut out and covering up with the planking, but remember you will also have to alter the stern end of the template so that the stern plate and stern facia fit squarley

[herbgold]

SpyGlass, I don't believe the bulkhead risers will stand for another "procedure" after the trauma they've been though - screwing and gluing, steaming, pinning and gluing. That's why I think I will have to do the gunport surgery I was talking about. But I won't do anything till back from France, week after next.

[Landlubber Mike]

I hate to say it, but Steve is right.  Shifting the gun ports is going to be tricky.  3mm at this scale is sort of a lot and it will likely cause you problems down the road.  In particular, your planking runs on the starboard and port sides will be different, which could cause you some grief.  

 

I forget exactly how I glued mine on, but I think I first clamped both sides to the bulkheads, and after getting them in the right position, I glued the strips in stages - essentially, keep the clamps on the areas that weren't going to be glued, take the clamps off the areas to be glued and re-clamp, then after the glued areas dried and were stable, take the clamps off the remaining areas and then glue and re-clamp.  I may have started at the bow and worked my way back, but I might have actually started near the jigsaw joint because it was a relatively flat area to glue, and it's pretty important to get the joint to line up evenly.  That was the best way (for me at least) to ensure that the line of the strips remained the same, otherwise trying to glue in one shot can be very tricky.  

 

Up to you though.  Good luck!

[herbgold]

Both set back, Steve. The port only just a little bit, starboard rather more. Sigh.

[Landlubber Mike]

It's a little hard to tell from pictures given the angle, but my jigsaw joint might have been a tad further back than Steve's, but the front edge seems to be on the bulkhead:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/?p=271803

[Martin W]

Herb -- I'm going to add my voice to those encouraging you to take the strips off again rather than cutting the ports.  I don't recall what kind of glue you used on them, but generally some isopropyl alcohol will loosen it enough to avoid damaging the bulkheads.  Don't use screws this time around.  Soak the strips, then clamp them into place and let them dry overnight before gluing them.  Line them up at the stem as closely as you can, and keep an eye on the placement of the ports -- vertically & laterally.  I left the aft strips off my build for quite a while, so I could take care of various details up at the front half. 

 

If you cut open the ports, you might find you'll have a hard time keeping the planking level.  It's surprising how much of a lump can grow from just a little discrepancy. 

 

These strips are a royal pain.  I don't think any one has gotten through their installation without some infuriating problems.

 

Good luck, and enjoy France.

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Herb, I just went back through my log - take a look at this post here:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/?p=271803

 

 

Reading that post, apparently I did start with the jigsaw joint, and worked my way forward:

 

"Here are some pictures when I started with the starboard side.  My approach was to get the two halves pinned and clamped, then start with the end of the front pattern and work my way forward.  Then I worked the back pattern starting from the jigsaw connection to the stern.  When I got to the stem, I slowly sanded the fore edge back until it fit snug against the stem.  I don't think you can fit the patterns starting at the stem and working towards the stern - aligning the patterns at the middle was a much better approach I think."

 

 

Take a look at my pictures in that post to see how I clamped/pinned the pattern.  I found it easiest to use clamps at the tops of the bulkheads, and then those planking pins from Micromark for the bottoms.  Start by setting up the pattern with the clamps at the tops - the clamps are easy to adjust, unlike pins.  Since you can't use clamps at the bottom section of the pattern, once the top of the pattern is clamped to all the bulkhead tops, then use pins to ensure a tight fit against the bulkheads.

 

Once you're done with all that, glue the pattern in sections.  Start with the front gunport pattern at the jigsaw joint and work your way forward.  Glue the first few bulkheads, let it dry, then finish the remaining bulkheads.  Then start with the jigsaw pattern of the back gunport pattern and work your way backwards. Slower, more methodical approach but much easier than trying to glue the pattern all at once.

 

Good luck my friend

Edited June 30, 2016 by Landlubber Mike

[herbgold]

Martin, I didn't use screws this time time round. I have soaked and clamped the ports twice without gluing them. I lined them up at the joint the first time round, and that didn't work, so this time I started at the bow, as Mike suggested.

 

I have just looked again, more carefully:

• The main problem is that the starboard strip is set too far back, and I will steam it off (isopropyl alcohol apparently doesn't work on standard Evo-Stik) and shorten it at the bow. (This arises from the first time round, when I broke off a piece at the bow when removing it, had to remake it, and got it a little longer that the port strip.)

• The minor problem is that the starboard sides of the aftmost two gratings is skewed aftwards at the right, which visually exaggerates any unevenness, because the eye tends to settle on the edges of the gratings as right-angled reference points. That's easily fixed by removing the gratings and refixing them.

I hope all this makes sense! Thank you all for your advice and patience with me. Probably nothing more until the week after next, when a very fit Herb returns from walking in the French Alps with his beloved.

Edited June 30, 2016 by herbgold

[Landlubber Mike]

Sorry, I think I may have confused things.  Don't start at the bow!  Start at the jigsaw joint and then line everything up with clamps.  The patterns are too long, and you will need to take material off the front end.

[Landlubber Mike]

Really nice tutorial Steve.  Looking at the jigsaw patterns in these pictures, mine lined up in the same spot, and I also found that the patterns were a bit long at the stem.  

 

I soaked and pinned my patterns twice.  I didn't find that they held their shape very well, but maybe I needed to do it a few more times.  Soaking and pinning does help loosen the fibers to get a more natural feel.

 

One key point that I missed early in the build was that the outer stern extensions should curve inwards.  Use the quarterdeck ply piece to help you line them up.  It wasn't a problem to pop them off and realign them, but easier to get them done the right way the first time.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Landlubber Mike

[herbgold]

Thank you very much, Steve, that's quite extraordinarily helpful. My nose will be back to the grindstone is a few days' time.

[herbgold]

Well, it's (re-)done. I steamed the starboard gun-port strip off yesterday, soaked and glued it back today, using Spyglass's tutorial as best I could, in particular the bit about sighting through port 6 via a temporary mainmast. It's definitely better, at least the strips now line up vertically and horizontally, which is just as well because the bulkhead risers would not have stood another steaming.

 

Thank you everyone - I honestly think if it hadn't been for your help and encouragement I would have given up.

[cobra1951]

Nice to see you got there in the end

[herbgold]

I don't think my wife would agree that I am a patient man, but thank you anyway.

 

A question before I start the first planking - downwards from the gunport strips, as per the instructions, or upwards from the garboard, as per Martin's build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/5960-hms-fly-by-martin-w-amati/page-8? Or does it not matter that much for a first planking?

 

 

Onward!

Edited July 18, 2016 by herbgold

[Martin W]

You should take a look at the planking tutorial that's available on this website.  It will give you lots of information about what to anticipate for the planking -- and how to anticipate it.  The first planking can serve as a practice run, so you can see what happens as the planks have to curve around the hull.  So you might want to take plenty of notes and photographs to help you through the second planking.

 

Congratulations on those *%#&&@@@*^ ing gunport strips.  They really are a pain, and I don't think anyone has avoided having some kind of problem with them.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[herbgold]

I've printed it off, Martin, and will study it before I start. Good point about practice first planking.

Edited July 19, 2016 by herbgold

[Martin W]

Oh, and I just remembered, another very useful book on planking is by Jim Roberts, available in the US from Model Expo -- and I think they'll ship to England.  Here's a link:

 

http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MSB113

 

cheers,

 

Martin

[herbgold]

Well, I started to mark up the bulkheads according to the method in Simple Hull Planking Techniques for Beginners (Dirk De Bakker et al,) but the more I thought about it the less sense it seemed to make to divide the bulkheads up the way it is done there without actually marking the planks on them. The Jack Nastyface Planking Tutorial looks superb but is too advanced for me (and uses different widths of planks, whereas I am pretty much bound by the kit contents). So the best option seems to be to follow Nico's Planking the hull, running the planks, which looks straightforward and seems to leave much less to chance. I will report back once I have done it...

Edited July 26, 2016 by herbgold

[Landlubber Mike]

My approach on my last two builds is to start downward from the gunport patterns, and at least get a few rows in from the keel/garboard up, and then meet in the middle.  I always wanted a clean line at the keel, so running a full garboard strake was preferable to me.  

 

In the end, it really doesn't matter as you're going to sand, fill and cover the first planking anyway.  What's probably more critical is thinking now about how you want to do your second planking.  You can use the first planking as a test run to figure out how your planks will lay on the hull, and where doing the garboard separately makes sense.  

 

Just make sure that you lay your planks naturally against the hull, and don't try to bend them laterally against their width.  That's when you start getting gaps, clinking effects, etc.  You can always use filler and stealers on the first planking, and can plan for how you want to approach the more difficult areas on the second planking.

[herbgold]

Eight planks laid on each side, plus a short garboard strake. There's a bit of a problem on the right of this picture, where the green pins are, and I'll remove that bit and fix it tomorrow. I feel reasonably happy with progress.

[herbgold]

Can't remember if I read about this somewhere, but if I did I've forgotten. Seems to work well, but will have to think of some other method on the second planking - or perhaps stick the cut out bits back in afterwards???

[donrobinson]

I hate to be the one to say anything, but as far as I know that is not a good way of planking and have never seen it done or even read about it. Is this supposed to help to edge bend the plank? Being that this just the first planking and those notches can be filled in it should be ok. As far as future use of this method I would certainly not be using it. Sorry my friend

[herbgold]

Yes, that's exactly what it does - edge bends the plank. I don't see a problem with it as far as first planking is concerned.

[Landlubber Mike]

Yeah, no reason to do that (not sure I've seen that method either!).  The first planking material is thick enough to sand the heck out of, and you can use filler for gaps.